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| Scotland | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 7 2014, 04:33 PM (269 Views) | |
| Sedulius | Mar 7 2014, 04:33 PM Post #1 |
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Field Marshal
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So... this whole Scottish independence vote coming up in September... thoughts? Feelings? Personally, I'm stoked. Scotland finally being an independent nation again is a victory for all Celts. I really hope it all works out. I'm particularly curious about what Nag thinks, though. |
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| NRE | Mar 7 2014, 04:45 PM Post #2 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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I am going to be honest but I have to say I'm a bit ignorant on the subject entirely. I wasn't even aware of the vote until I came across a news article talking about Sean Connery an his attitude towards the forthcoming vote. I am curious to see the result myself but can't say I really have an opinion on it one way or the other. Although I imagine with Scotland gone it the "United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland" then? :huh: |
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| Alberto | Mar 7 2014, 06:12 PM Post #3 |
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Resident Italian
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I am currently living and studying in Scotland, in Edinburgh and I am witnessing first hand the referendum "vive". Moreover, I can also vote in the referendum as a resident in Scotland ! To me, it feels that the Scottish National Party has failed to state its case for independence: it has not told anything abot the future economic basis of Scotland, how it would handle its huge banks (RBS handles resources superior to Scotland's GDP!), which currency it would use. Particularly, the independentists face the problem that, once independent, Scotland would be outside of the EU... So I think that the referendum will not give a majority to the independentists, like in Quebec (where the independentists were way more active). Complexively, the independentists here are failing to get their message through, to articulate a vision of independent Scotland and convince people it is the right one. The majority here is simply not convinced that a Scottish state could be economicaly viable. Voters will go to the polls full of uncertainties (which currency will they use ? will they be free to travel and work in Europe ? would they keep their EU citizenship ?). At least, what I am sure of is that I will vote for the union: I owe it to Scotland (which is now my home and which I love immensely) to not contribute to something that may be very risky. |
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| Sedulius | Mar 8 2014, 10:16 AM Post #4 |
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Field Marshal
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And Wales. Alberto, it is risky for Scotland, but it's the right thing to do. The Scottish people want to be free of British rule. That's why they voted the Scottish National Party into power. This isn't a matter of banks and the like. It's a matter of the Scottish people having their own nation once again. To focus on the economics of the situation is an unemotional, detached, logical way to look at the situation, without any regard for the feelings of the people themselves. This is what the English tend to do when it comes to any of the Celtic peoples. They simply do not understand the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh minds. They don't understand that we don't want to be under their rule, and it is absolutely our right to be independent of them. The way I see it, to support continued union is to support continued oppression by a corrupt government. Also, Scotland being out of the EU is one of the best things that could happen. I know many Irish, both citizens and politicians, want out of the EU's sinking ship, but Ireland isn't being allowed to. Scotland has been handed a golden ticket. However, the SNP wants to get right back into the EU. It's really too bad. The SNP also wants to keep Queen Elizabeth II as their monarch, which almost seems to me to be self-defeating. Because Alberto, you are right, if Scotland is going to argue the case that Scotland is better off economically and the like independent of the UK, the SNP does not have much of a case. My argument in the above paragraph is the only truly legitimate argument for independence, and the SNP unfortunately does not seem to be taking that route. The Scottish Green Party and the Scottish Socialist Party (I believe that is what they were called IIRC), on the other hand, do not want to keep Queen Elizabeth II as a monarch, and instead want to form a republic. Sounds familiar, a lot like their kin across the Irish Sea. This is the way I would want Scotland to go. So yes, there are going to be problems once Scotland gains independence (which I believe is the more likely outcome of the referendum, given the way the votes have gone so far). There is going to have to be discussion of what is to be done. And hopefully, the SNP doesn't just force its way on everyone else. Otherwise, there are going to be a lot of pissed off Scots. |
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| Pidgin | Mar 9 2014, 03:57 AM Post #5 |
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out. If Scotland does leave the UK (thus leaving the EU) isn't there a 10 year wait to rejoin the EU? (could have swore I read that somewhere) As for keeping the monarch. kinda silly if you ask me but if it happens then it would be like Canada and such. However I hope it goes into a true Republic |
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| New Harumf | Mar 9 2014, 12:51 PM Post #6 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Keeping the monarch kind of makes sense since the crown was united under James 1 (James 6 of Scotland). They could also find a closer bloodline to James 6 if they wanted to and cut the head off the Hanover usurpers! Personally, I think it would be silly to maintain the expense of a monarchy. I would like to see Scotland a true republic, independent of Britain AND the EU. The EU is crumbling and, in my opinion, has nothing to offer an emerging Scottish republic. I do hope they replace the current parliamentary system and create a form of a republic though that is unlikely. I would actually consider retiring there if they separated from Britain, so, in spite of the complications, I hope they do it! |
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| Alberto | Mar 9 2014, 02:59 PM Post #7 |
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Resident Italian
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What do you all think ? Do you think that the just the EU as it is now is crumbling, or do you believe that the idea of European integration itself will finish ? Frankly, while this EU has many things that are wrong, I would not like to go back to an Europe divided between increasingly irrelevant nation-states. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Mar 10 2014, 07:10 PM Post #8 |
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Legitimist
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Personally, I don't think the EU is crumbling. I think the EU is facing certain crises that could make or break it, but I think it has a good chance of coming out stronger. |
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| Al Araam | Mar 11 2014, 07:20 AM Post #9 |
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity
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I don't think the EU is crumbling. I think the EU needs to exercise its coercive powers to bring some of its member-states into line (looking at you, quite a lot of Eastern Europe). But I think integration is the way things are going. I also think that the fact that Russia is looking more and more belligerent is going to drive a number of states that used to be Soviet-satellites towards either the EU or NATO or both. Or the rest of them, namely Western Ukraine, if Russia annexes Eastern Ukraine.
Edited by Al Araam, Mar 11 2014, 07:25 AM.
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Apr 4 2014, 03:05 PM Post #10 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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This is a complex issue. Many of my friends are politically minded (d'uh). And the Scots among them are for independence. I do not believe we'll get a "yes" vote, but if I lived in Scotland, that's the way I would vote. The only thing of value that the EU brings is the Free Market... and even that is laden with unhelpful regulations. An independent Scotland would do well to form an independent free trade commonwealth with its closest trade partners (and with an eye to the increasing globalization of the market, I do not mean closest geographically). The monarchy is a token thing. How much does Australia spend on the Crown? The EU is "crumbling" the same way the USA is "crumbling". Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Apr 4 2014, 03:06 PM.
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| New Harumf | Apr 5 2014, 05:13 PM Post #11 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Both the EU and the US are crumbling from political standpoints. All the wounds are self-inflicted. Economically, both could be strong if they got their politics in order (though I believe the EU is stretched a little thinner right now than the US). Also, if I lived in Scotland, I would vote for independence in a heartbeat - that's just the way I roll. Kinda hoping Texas votes for independence! Your point is well taken regarding an independent Scotland forming an independent free trade commonwealth with its closest trade partners with an eye on globalization (proximity issue understood). Nag, the world will change greatly in your life time. You may live to see a Muslim Europe; a Spanish-speaking US; who knows. Most of you know I am anti-open borders here in the U.S., and for one reason only: Immigration from Latin and South America offends me because these Spanish-conquered nations who were given independence screwed it up and created shit-holes. Now they want a second chance here in the US, and I am fairly certain they will make shit-holes of this nation as well. Yes, I have issues. |
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| meh | Apr 6 2014, 05:10 AM Post #12 |
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1st Lieutenant
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The UK needs to re-absorb Ireland already and form greater Britannia. Maybe another war in the Falklands Island would do them some good. |
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11:32 AM Jul 13