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AD&D 2nd Edition Campaign; All this talk has me itchy...
Topic Started: Mar 6 2013, 02:52 PM (1,890 Views)
East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Did the math on my equipment and ended up making some changes. Also, I just went ahead and tried to figure out my proficiencies, because it seemed easy enough, (but I'm not certain that I did it right.)

I'm quite excited about starting this campaign. ^^

EDIT: Upon a closer examination of the rules, halflings aren't even allowed to be bards. :( That is most disappointing, as the combination seems to me to be a natural fit. I humbly request of the DM and my fellow players to allow this transgression of the rules, (perhaps with the caveat that I be cursed in some way or that I should have to sacrifice some kind of racial or class advantage for the sake of balance.) For example, I would be willing to sacrifice the +1 DEX while keeping the -1 STR if I could still be a halfling. If anyone still has a problem with me being a halfling bard, even after the attempt at re-balancing, let me know and I'll attempt to rework my character to be compliant with the rules. My second choice would have been a halfling druid, but that's not allowed either apparently. Hmm... I guess the easiest way to be in compliance would just be to switch my race to human. I'd rather not, but I will if that's what the DM and/or group wants.
Edited by East Anarx, Mar 19 2013, 03:32 PM.
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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

Realistically, it would probably be the splint mail that was problem to carry, but I guess it can be worn. With 18 STR, I should be able to serve as my own pack animal reasonably well, I think.
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meh
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Quote:
 
STR - 14
DEX - 18
CON - 14
INT - 12
WIS - 14
CHA - 15

Name: Gwrtheyrn
Race: Half-elf
Class: Ranger/Druid
Alignment: Neutral Good
Racial enemy: Orcs

Height: 71 inches
Weight: 150 lbs
Age: 34 years
Handedness: Dual

Known Languages: Common, Orc, Halfling, Druidic

Proficiencies
- Weapon Proficiencies (4 slots)
-- Long Bow (2)
-- Hand or Throwing Axe (1)
-- Short Sword (1)
- Non-Weapon Proficiencies (4 slots)
-- Tracking (1-Ranger)
-- Bowyer/Fletcher (1)
-- Jumping (1)
-- Hunting (1)
-- Direction Sense (1)

Spells
Level 1 (7 known)

Money
Starting: 130gp
Remaining: 3gp

- Clothing
-- Tunic (8sp)
-- Breeches (2gp)
-- Sword Scabbard (4gp)
-- Riding Boots (3gp)
-- Cloth Cloak (8sp)
-- Hat (1sp)
-- Belt (3sp)
-- Gloves (1gp)
-- Leather Armor (5gp)
-- Quiver (8sp)
- Weapons
-- Long Bow (75gp)
-- 36 Sheaf Arrows (18sp)
-- 36 Flight Arrows (9sp)
-- Hand Axe (1gp)
-- Short Sword (10gp)
- Misc
-- Boar (10gp)
-- Wine Skin (8sp)
-- Small Tent (5gp)
-- Flint and Steel (5sp)
-- Backpack (2gp)
-- Whetstone (2cp)

Background: As the unfortunate spawn of a man and a traveling elf, Gwrtheyrn was discarded into the forest as an infant. Discovered by one of the few remaining Druids in the region, Gwrtheyrn grew up learning the ways of the forest and of nature. Under the guidance of the old Druid, he studied the ancient rituals and language of the Druids, cementing his connection to nature the natural balance of the world. Although an outcast to the local village, Gwrtheyrn would spend his free time amongst the hunters and woodsmen, learning their trade and eventually receiving the reluctant title of Ranger. Situated between the snowy mountains and the outlying village, the forest in which Gwrtheyrn grew up were dark and immense. The mountains to the north were filled with tribes of Orcs, a constant threat to the peace and sanctity of the forest. The villagers nearby were little relief, suspicious and often hostile to Gwrtheyrn and the Druid. A few months before Gwrtheyrn's 20th year, the old Druid, far too weak to fight back, was arrested and accused of witchcraft and paganism by the villagers. Despite his best efforts, Gwrtheyrn was unsuccessful in rescuing the Druid and was forced to witness the burning. Demonized for his friendship to the Druid, Gwrtheyrn was forced deeper into the woods, taking vengeance on those who troubled the forest. Tens years after the death, the tribal Orcs descended upon the forest, burning, uprooting, and killing everything in their path. Without the protection of the Druid, the forest was quickly reduced to ashes, leaving Gwrtheyrn with no home and purposes. Shouldering the burden of his failure, he set out upon the world to find the remaining Druids and Rangers who pledge their allegiance to the nature, in hopes of one day being able to protect the natural balance of life.


EDIT: I'm 98% sure I did this wrong, so please correct any mistakes that I've made. I'm still really confused about multi-classing, so I'm hoping everything is in order.

A few questions:

Can lycanthropy play a role in this D&D?
How exactly does the multi-class system work?
A Druid requires that I am neutral, to protect the balance and whatnot. However, if I commit any evil act, I lose my status as Ranger. How do I balance the alignment for a multi-class?
For multi-class, how do I balance the usable weapons? As a Druid, I can't use many weapons, but as Ranger I can use most.

Edited by meh, Mar 21 2013, 01:05 PM.
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Allied States of Arv (ASA)
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So when were we going to start?

And could someone explain the proficiencies to me I don't really get it.
Edited by Allied States of Arv (ASA), Mar 20 2013, 11:39 PM.
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meh
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Allied States of Arv (ASA)
Mar 20 2013, 11:39 PM
So when were we going to start?

And could someone explain the proficiencies to me I don't really get it.
I think you get a certain number of weapon and non-weapon proficiencies depending on your class (warrior, mage, priest, etc). Then you pick the certain proficiencies that help your character. I think.
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Al Araam
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I thought Sed specified that we weren't using proficiencies at this point. The way I understood it, he's planning to ease people into the rules of 2nd edition over the course of the first adventure or two, and I believe proficiencies are part of that.

If that's not the case, then I may need to hit the books again.
Edited by Al Araam, Mar 21 2013, 02:56 AM.
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Sedulius
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Hey guys.... I'm going through a rough patch right now... so I haven't been able to prepare anything. I was hoping to do a bunch of stuff today... but... yeah... bad things happen. So... NH said he wasn't available for this Saturday anyways.

I'll try to pull myself together and get things ready within the next two weeks. But I'm going to need some time. Things are hard right now. But don't think this is me calling it all off. I don't want everyone to have wasted all this time preparing things. I do already have plenty prepared in my head. It's just a matter of transferring it to paper, getting all the numbers right, and freshening up on the DM Guide.

I'll be ready as soon as I can.

Next post, as soon as I can get to it, I'll answer the questions and what not you guys have asked.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

To make absolutely clear, I'm not running this game. Sed is. Furthermore, I have never run a game of AD&D. I've played AD&D once and it put me off D&D for 14 years (only started playing it again two years ago).

So, if Sed says anything that contradicts something I've said, for the love of god believe Sed. But, addressing questions raised in this thread:

"I'm not sure how best to handle food"
Keep some money in your purse so you can buy food when you need to. Sed says we don't need to buy food.

"Well since you don't have any pack animals you might be a little bogged down with carrying..."
Encumbrance is an optional rule. Sed says we're not using optional rules. Also, I own a TV but I don't carry it around with me. I don't see why you shouldn't buy whatever equipment you think might be useful. Especially as Sed has intimated that we'll start in a town, I'm confident that we'll have lodgings and/or be able to hire/purchase pack animals if needed. Or we could use each others pack animals to transport our goods.

"halflings aren't even allowed to be bards"
What is this? I don't even. The halfling bard is as iconic as the halfling thief and the halfling cook. I'd let you play a bard (and I wouldn't think of imposing any additional restrictions on you). Sed, however, has intimated that racial limitations are important. A fighter/thief gives you abilities similar to a non-magical bard. Remembering that Elves (elfs?) are short in this game, maybe half-elf would be a suitable race for you (if you don't want to play a short human)? Half-elf seems to fit your background and character description.

Proficiencies
Sed says we're not using optional rules. He specifically says "Don't worry about proficiencies [...] No powers. No skills. None of that extra crap. Nice and simple." Of course, I'm not saying don't pick proficiencies, might be helpful for you to flesh out some background to your character. But Sed's said background isn't necessary (and it's very easy to die in AD&D). I'm not picking proficiencies until Sed tells me to. I do not think it's a good idea to pick proficiencies when we don't know what kind of game we'll be playing.

Can lycanthropy play a role in this D&D?
I believe that the AD&D monster manual has werecreatures (and is rather snooty about them not being lycanthropes because "lycan" means "wolf"). I believe you can be turned into a werecreature by being bitten by one, or cursed by a high level mage.

How exactly does the multi-class system work?
Exactly as described on page 94. I really don't know how else to answer that one. What exactly is your query?
Spoiler: click to toggle


"A Druid requires that I am neutral, to protect the balance and whatnot. However, if I commit any evil act, I lose my status as Ranger. How do I balance the alignment for a multi-class?"
I don't think you can be a Ranger/Druid. Page 94 summarizes all the valid combinations (the "or Druid" option on page 46 looks like a typo). You must be Good to be a Ranger. You must be Neutral to be a Druid. Alternatively (if Page 94 is the typo), you don't commit any Evil acts and dedicate yourself to performing Good acts that cancel out other people's Evil acts. That way you're restoring the balance rather than advancing the cause of Good.

"For multi-class, how do I balance the usable weapons? As a Druid, I can't use many weapons, but as Ranger I can use most."
There's nothing specifically saying you can't use ranger weapons (Page 95 says only Priests keep their weapon restrictions). Personally, I see the Druid restrictions to be more in keeping with their ethos rather than a lack of training with other weapons (akin to how they only use "natural" armor), however, there is no rule that states you can't use other weapons (and I believe you could get access to other weapons through proficiencies if we were using them).
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Okay, so I was in a rush on a broken keyboard the other day, so he let me start today. I STRONGLY prfefer 3.5 if we could. There's a 3.5 program called RedBlade that that give you your character, but the story is yours.

http://downloads.redblade.org/

It comes with a dice roller, though suggest rules in advance for everyone. Since the Player's Guide is so easy to to find online, I see little reason to go go that. Also, Sed, could you set all the spoilers our our characters in the OP.
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Telosan
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Strongly advocate 3.5 regardless of GM.
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meh
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Nag Ehgoeg
Mar 21 2013, 03:06 PM
Can lycanthropy play a role in this D&D?
I believe that the AD&D monster manual has werecreatures (and is rather snooty about them not being lycanthropes because "lycan" means "wolf"). I believe you can be turned into a werecreature by being bitten by one, or cursed by a high level mage.
And can we incorporate this into our story, or will it have to occur in game?

Quote:
 
I don't think you can be a Ranger/Druid. Page 94 summarizes all the valid combinations (the "or Druid" option on page 46 looks like a typo). You must be Good to be a Ranger. You must be Neutral to be a Druid. Alternatively (if Page 94 is the typo), you don't commit any Evil acts and dedicate yourself to performing Good acts that cancel out other people's Evil acts. That way you're restoring the balance rather than advancing the cause of Good.
I was assuming that page 94 was the typo, since all the other cleric combinations has the asterisk. From what I've read online, the Neutral Good alignment is implied with this combination. I'll let Sed decide on this one though.

Sorry for all the questions. I am brand new to this stuff.
Edited by meh, Mar 21 2013, 05:17 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Telo: I don't think you were there for it, but this thread was preceded by a long debate about preferred D&D edition. Hraktuus prefers AD&D 2nd Edition, so that's actually the whole point of this thread to some degree.

Nag: I approve of their snootiness concerning lycanthropy :P

Hraktuus: With your delay, I might actually be able to play. If things are settled for me and I have more free time before you start, I'll try to roll up a character.
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Comrade Queen
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meh
Mar 21 2013, 05:16 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Mar 21 2013, 03:06 PM
Can lycanthropy play a role in this D&D?
I believe that the AD&D monster manual has werecreatures (and is rather snooty about them not being lycanthropes because "lycan" means "wolf"). I believe you can be turned into a werecreature by being bitten by one, or cursed by a high level mage.
And can we incorporate this into our story, or will it have to occur in game?

Quote:
 
I don't think you can be a Ranger/Druid. Page 94 summarizes all the valid combinations (the "or Druid" option on page 46 looks like a typo). You must be Good to be a Ranger. You must be Neutral to be a Druid. Alternatively (if Page 94 is the typo), you don't commit any Evil acts and dedicate yourself to performing Good acts that cancel out other people's Evil acts. That way you're restoring the balance rather than advancing the cause of Good.
I was assuming that page 94 was the typo, since all the other cleric combinations has the asterisk. From what I've read online, the Neutral Good alignment is implied with this combination. I'll let Sed decide on this one though.

Sorry for all the questions. I am brand new to this stuff.
Yeah, Neutral Good is the only way you could have a Druid/Ranger in 2nd edition.
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meh
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Scythirus
Mar 22 2013, 01:05 AM
meh
Mar 21 2013, 05:16 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Mar 21 2013, 03:06 PM
Can lycanthropy play a role in this D&D?
I believe that the AD&D monster manual has werecreatures (and is rather snooty about them not being lycanthropes because "lycan" means "wolf"). I believe you can be turned into a werecreature by being bitten by one, or cursed by a high level mage.
And can we incorporate this into our story, or will it have to occur in game?

Quote:
 
I don't think you can be a Ranger/Druid. Page 94 summarizes all the valid combinations (the "or Druid" option on page 46 looks like a typo). You must be Good to be a Ranger. You must be Neutral to be a Druid. Alternatively (if Page 94 is the typo), you don't commit any Evil acts and dedicate yourself to performing Good acts that cancel out other people's Evil acts. That way you're restoring the balance rather than advancing the cause of Good.
I was assuming that page 94 was the typo, since all the other cleric combinations has the asterisk. From what I've read online, the Neutral Good alignment is implied with this combination. I'll let Sed decide on this one though.

Sorry for all the questions. I am brand new to this stuff.
Yeah, Neutral Good is the only way you could have a Druid/Ranger in 2nd edition.
With this alignment, am I completely prohibited from making evil or chaotic choices?
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Comrade Queen
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meh
Mar 22 2013, 02:14 PM
With this alignment, am I completely prohibited from making evil or chaotic choices?
Evil choices, yes, but I don't see why you'd be prevented from making chaotic choices considering that there is a Chaotic Good and that Neutral Good is the halfway point between that and Lawful Good. In fact, that pretty much requires you to make chaotic actions as well as lawful ones.
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Telosan
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Actually, we can try regular 3.5 GM stuff fir Sed, jut pull in these ADAD elements. My thought can be witches and paladins. So you keep all the growth of the gens, yet melee are classified as paladins, so long as they do no magic. If caughty, they'd suffer the damage rate any book would choose for burning. I personally wouldn't pick anything out of the RedBlade; a Druid and Elf combo. With extra species allowed, I'd do the same but with a Raptran.

You may be right, RD, but I've been dying for a game. Perhaps the most updated series of a SW RPG, not nececarrily SWTOR.
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meh
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Scythirus
Mar 22 2013, 03:44 PM
meh
Mar 22 2013, 02:14 PM
With this alignment, am I completely prohibited from making evil or chaotic choices?
Evil choices, yes, but I don't see why you'd be prevented from making chaotic choices considering that there is a Chaotic Good and that Neutral Good is the halfway point between that and Lawful Good. In fact, that pretty much requires you to make chaotic actions as well as lawful ones.
I feel dumb for asking it, but what exactly is the difference between chaotic and evil? I'm assuming chaotic is simply the opposite of lawful, like working outside of established authority. But what exactly would it entail?
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Nag Ehgoeg
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meh
Mar 22 2013, 04:05 PM
I feel dumb for asking it, but what exactly is the difference between chaotic and evil? I'm assuming chaotic is simply the opposite of lawful, like working outside of established authority. But what exactly would it entail?
Robin Hood is Chaotic Good.
The Sheriff of Nottingham(/King John) is Lawful Evil.

Mal from Firefly is Chaotic Good.
The Operative from Serenity is Lawful Evil.

Batman is Chaotic Good.
Ra's al Ghul is Lawful Evil.

Chaotic Good (I disagree with this website a lot but it's a great starting point for explaining alignments).

meh
 
I was assuming that page 94 was the typo, since all the other cleric combinations has the asterisk.
That's exactly why I thought 94 wasn't the typo - because all the other combinations are valid if you have a True Neutral Druid alignment.

I guess RAW, Neutral Good works - but the section that says you have to be Neutral specifically says Druids don't care about Good and Evil (not that they don't care about Law and Chaos).

****

Sidenote: I'd love to run Pathfinder, Exalted, Death Watch, Werewolf: the Apocalypse, Vampire: The Masquerade or Vampire: The Requiem if people wanted to play something different.
Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Mar 22 2013, 06:19 PM.
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meh
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Nag Ehgoeg
Mar 22 2013, 04:58 PM
Sidenote: I'd love to run Pathfinder, Exalted, Death Watch, Werewolf: the Apocolapse, Vampire: The Masquerade or Vampire: The Requiem if people wanted to play something different.
I'd be up for anything.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Corporation (Corpgame) is a great game. As is Wild Talents.

Could do anything by White Wolf: just listed the games above because I've been planning games for those systems in my lunch breaks recently (Exalted is ready to run right now, any other game would be a rehash of stories I've run in the past - but apart from Malkav and Kiensland, none of you have played in my games before so that won't make a difference).

I'd actually really, really like to run a game of "Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th Edition". The rules are free to download and everything.
Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Mar 22 2013, 06:20 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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I started playing the computer game Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines a couple weeks ago. I'm near the end now, but it has inspired a huge nostalgia in me. So Nag, I don't know if I'll have the time (as I've said earlier in this thread), but maybe in a few weeks we can talk about getting a VtM game started. Of course, we can start a new thread for that so Hraktuus' thread doesn't get hijacked. Thanks for suggesting. (Alternatively, we could play VtR since it would be somewhat similar, but new to me since I've only touched the demo story for that game)
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Sedulius
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Hey, things blew over. I'm occupied at the moment, but I'll get to this as soon as I'm done.
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Sedulius
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Alright, after much reading and consideration, E, I cannot allow you to have a halfling bard. You don't, however, have to become human. You can be a half-elf, and a half-elf bard is the only exception to the rule that only humans have unlimited levels.

Here is my justification. I will say right away that neither the DM Guide nor the Player's Handbook make any argument as to why a halfling, or indeed any race, can't be a bard. In fact, halflings seem very suited to bards, as halflings are based on Tolkien's hobbits, which are to some degree similar to Celts, and bards are very Celtic in nature (the Player's Handbook basically says as much). BUT... bards can cast wizard spells, and halflings can't be mages, so it just quite simply doesn't fit. You always see hobbits outwit their enemies rather than use magic to get out of a sticky situation.

So E, I recommend switching to a half-elf bard, or a halfling thief that happens to be good at poetry and a chosen instrument. Either one would still fit well enough with your background. You didn't make Sunny major in music after all. He's a professional architect that happens to have another set of skills.

I'm sorry, but a spellcasting hobbit just doesn't fit in the campaign. Frankly, I'm going to make magic rare. Nag's human mage isn't going to have many NPC colleagues. In fact, I think I'm going to start us out in something similar to Reformation Germany. So... be careful about where and how you use your magic. Don't worry. The campaign will move out of that country in time, but I want to make things interesting. This isn't going to be your typical fantasy setting. However, there will be areas of the campaign world (and outside of its plane) that will still be very strong in magic.

EDIT: Nag, this isn't to say you can't use your magic at first. I'm just saying don't go around casting spells in town. They might burn you for witchcraft. But in the wilderness and in dungeons, you'll be fine the vast majority of the time.
Edited by Sedulius, Mar 28 2013, 02:28 PM.
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Sedulius
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On proficiences... Use them if you want to. I'm not going to use them at first, but I do intend to eventually work them into the campaign. Same with encumbrance. Same with a lot of things. But if you don't want to deal with those things right now, it's fine. But I'm totally fine with you fleshing out your character more with proficiencies. It adds that much more to the roleplaying experience.

E, as a bard, you should add one musical instrument of your choice to your proficiencies. This does not take up a slot. You can add other instruments at the cost of a slot each. You also get the singing, local history (for where you're from), and reading/writing (in your native tongue) as free proficiencies.

Alright, I would go into answering other questions but... Nag and others already answered most of them correctly, so... Yeah. What I will do is post those dice rolling methods I was going to, and I will provide an example character.

Now, as to errors and questions that weren't answered...

First of all... handedness. E must have added that later. I'm fine with you putting what hand your character prefers to use, but it's irrelevant to the gameplay. There is never going to be a situation where I am going to force you to use your weapon in your unfavored hand, and if it were a choice, wouldn't everyone choose to be good at using both hands? So... you should be putting handedness as part of your character sheet. Put it in a traits section if you want to put it in (example: Traits: left-handed, bipolar, pansexual, narcissistic). But that's totally up to you, as it will have no effect on the gameplay, only the roleplay (the example I listed would be contraversial indeed in the current campaign setting). This brings up something interesting though... You are entirely allowed to play an insane character (these are usually of Chaotic Neutral alignment).

Al Araam, I can already tell your character is going to be the badass of the party. You need to roll percentile dice to determine exceptional strength since his strength is 18. If you get 18/00, I'll believe you. I've rolled it before.

meh, I was about to say you can't be a ranger/druid, but then thought, "Hey, it probably allows them to be ranger/druids in the version of the player's handbook they're using" and yup, sure enough, there it is. You said you're 98% sure you did it wrong, but looking your character over, you did it right. I'm not seeing any errors.

Now that said... meh you had other questions too. Yes, there will be lycanphropes later in the campaign. For how the multi-class system works, you should read over p 94-96 of the Player's Handbook, and tell me specifically what you don't understand, but otherwise, I can only repeat what it's saying. For your alignment, given that it allows there to be ranger/druids, and rangers must be good, and druids must be neutral, your character can only be neutral good, which is the alignment you chose. As a ranger, you must never commit an evil act, lest you lose your status as a ranger. As a druid... I'm not seeing any consequence for acting lawful or chaotic, or evil or good, so... no sweat. I need to read it more thoroughly, but I'm honestly not going to penalize you for lawful or chaotic acts. You're a druid. You're going to do what's logical to your ethos. If abiding by or breaking the law is within that, then no harm done. For your weapons and armor, you must follow the restrictions of the druid.

ASA, the one error in your character is it says he's a warrior/thief. I assume you mean fighter/thief. Warrior is not a class, but rather the group of classes containing fighters, paladins, and rangers.

EDIT: I realized the dice rolling methods are all listed in the Player's Handbook, page 27-28 for you guys. And of course, you can use the d20 method I stated earlier.
Edited by Sedulius, Mar 28 2013, 03:44 PM.
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Sedulius
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Example Character

This is, for the most part, the character I used to use.

Spoiler: click to toggle


-----

So, this is a good example of what I want to see on a character sheet. I'm sure the equipment for this character goes over his starting funds, but in this case, the DM provided the character with certain items and money because he was a paladin, and the DM wanted to make the character of a noble background, which I as a player of course accepted. Certainly, I won't be as generous as my DM was in this case, but if your character is part of a religious order (likely clerics, fighters, and paladins), I will take this into consideration and have the order provide you with some basic essentials if they are out of your price range.

FYI, everything I talked about in this example character sheet is a glimpse of the campaign world. Eventually, I will even draw a map and give detailed descriptions of nations and empires. But for now, we don't need that. For a level 1 starting quest, all we need is a setting and a dungeon to go to.

Now all that said, remember I have final say on what exists in the campaign world. Feel free to come up with what you wish in your backgrounds. I'm going to incorporate it into the campaign world. I like E's Elven university. But I will tell you to change it if you go too far. For example, I'm not going to let you be the crown prince of an empire, but if you're the child of a lesser noble (most of the petty kings of Fal, barons of Alemany, etc.), that's fine. Just don't expect that you'll be given any large advantages. I'm the DM. I can kill your character's family. :lol: For example, level 1 human fighter Helmut von Sasany, son of the Duke of Sasany, is not going to be successful in asking his father for command of a regiment because of his lack of experience. However, at level 9, the elite bodyguard Helmut gains as a fighter could be explained by his father the Duke providing them.
Edited by Sedulius, Mar 28 2013, 08:07 PM.
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