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| Adultery | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 14 2012, 02:03 PM (602 Views) | |
| flumes | Jan 17 2012, 10:46 PM Post #26 |
CLEVELAND ROCKS!
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Waste of government money. |
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| Sedulius | Jan 18 2012, 09:59 AM Post #27 |
Field Marshal
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Punishing thieves and murderers isn't considered a waste, and yet punishing adulterers is? So the government is only supposed to protect society from the harms that are within its budget? |
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| NRE | Jan 18 2012, 01:32 PM Post #28 |
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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Logical, perhaps, feasible...again that's questionable. I think this debate could easily go into random statements of combating the "disease" rather than punishing the act, say as in alcoholism. Our society has already attempted this with varying degrees of success. I think the it comes down to the point that if people want to do it, they'll do it regardless of the consequences to themselves or to other interconnected to them. I mean boozing it up 24-7 can destroy a family economically as well as emotionally just as badly, if not worse than adultery. If we're going to punish adultery though, I think we'd have to clearly understand and define the reasons why individuals commit adultery and then look to see if further education can combat those reasons. In the perfect would like to think a more educated society would enter into the social and spiritual contract of marriage with a more level head as to what exactly marriage means, if they so choose to get married at all. |
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| meh | Jan 18 2012, 03:04 PM Post #29 |
1st Lieutenant
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I believe that adultery is far more a societal problem than a government one. You can't really compare it to murder or theft. Our government has a duty to defend any citizen's loss of life or property, not to regulate the behavior of adults in the bedroom. This is a societal problem, and thus it is best left to society to fix. |
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| Sedulius | Jan 18 2012, 05:52 PM Post #30 |
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Field Marshal
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But meh, this isn't about regulating what adults do in the bedroom. This is about protecting from the harms that adultery causes, like any other crime. It does cause damage to people's minds and lives, just as theft and murder. Sometimes, it can even lead to murder or other crimes. I think the consequences of allowing adultery are simply too high, and I believe that society would be made better in punishing it. Regulating adults in the bedroom would be telling them they can't have a threesome or they can't do sodomy, so on and so forth. Regulating adultery is not regulating sex, but rather regulating something that causes harm to families. Of course, this does require the definition of adultery to be when one has sexual relations with someone other than their spouse without the consent of the spouse. When you marry, you enter into a legal contract. I think that contract should be taken more seriously, and serious punishments should happen if it is violated. |
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| meh | Jan 18 2012, 06:19 PM Post #31 |
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1st Lieutenant
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I'd argue that it would do more harm to the children, knowing that their father or mother is in jail or debt. Yes, you are regulating sex in a sense. You are regulating who can have sex with who. I have doubts that the government can really help in this situation. Let's say a law like this is passed. A father commits adultery, and somehow is found guilty in a court of law. Depending on the law, and the severity of it, he either goes to jail or gets a massive fine. Regardless, the family will surely break up, and the damage will be done. Even when used as a deterrent, it wont solve anything. Instead, it would compound any problems the couple is facing, potentially leading up to a horrible break up or worse. Instead of couples talking things out if suspicions ever arise, lawsuits would be thrown all over the place. Instead of solving the issue themselves, they turn to the government to solve their marriage problems. It would be a complete waste of resources and the precious time of the court trying to figure out the legitimacy of the suit. Also, it would be up to the other spouse to file suit against their significant other. Such would lead to a terrible cycle of suspicion, and would never end well, and most likely in a break up. This law simply wouldn't even be feasible. |
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| Sedulius | Jan 19 2012, 12:14 AM Post #32 |
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Field Marshal
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Hovercraft Insurance |
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| Catholic Europe | Jan 22 2012, 11:07 AM Post #33 |
Spammer
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Very interesting! When I was growing up, I heard and knew of many people divorcing and, I believe, it was accepted. Now....people in the UK, too, seem to view divorce as not a 'good' thing. I think it's to do with the fact that people co-habit for much longer now. Co-habiting is truly a great thing as it stops the complete destruction of lives that divorce creates. And this is not just the destruction of lives of the immediate family. Divorce destroys extended relatives lives - grandparents, cousins, aunties and uncles - particularly in my experience when my aunty and uncle divorced in 1996, it caused profound destruction in my family where my aunty-by-marriage didn't talk to my family for 5 years, even though she had been my mums friend for 25 years because my father is the brother of her ex-husband and, of all of my dads quite large family, my family were particularly close to this particular aunt and uncle and their children. The fact that we went from seeing eachother everyday to barely seeing my aunt or my cousins for 5 years really damaged my mum, dad, me and my sister - even today my other cousins from my dads other brothers pratically hate this aunty, although my mum and this aunty-by-marriage repaired their friendship 10 years ago and are closer than ever - and it can destroy mutual friends lives when they try to maintain friendships with both divorcees. I think society has come to realise that divorce isn't just about the couple and that it doesn't just affect them. It affects, deeply, everyone around them too, just as deeply. So, no wonder that after 20/30/40 years divorce is seeming to be on the decline. People won't accept it now because to do so means that they could have stress and other negative effects placed on them. |
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| Sedulius | Jan 25 2012, 02:56 AM Post #34 |
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Field Marshal
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There is no way to know which of jailtime, debt, or adultery has a worse effect on children without an extensive research study that we on the forum are not capable of conducting. Saying which has more of an effect is a matter of opinion. I seriously think finding out for the first time one or both of your parents have been cheating has the potential to be far more damaging than debt or jailtime, though one must take into account the amount and variety of the cheating as well. In my case, I admit bias. I had a dad that cheated on my mom throughout the entire marriage up to a point with hundreds of women, which was pretty traumatizing to a fifteen year old that was raised with strong morals by this very father. Double that with my mother also cheating on my dad with his best friend at the time, and you get the picture. It's a shock that can hardly be handled by young minds, and my moral aversion to adultery is thus natural. I think I can say with all certainty I would be far less traumatized by a family in debt (because almost everybody is anyways) or family members in jail (which would have felt like justice in the case of adultery, but also in any case, it really isn't that traumatizing, unless your father is a rapist or something). I know from experience how bad adultery affects families. I also know from experience how a family can completely turn around from it and become far stronger than before. Our family is better than ever. But knowing how much it scarred me, knowing that a weaker person would have completely fallen apart under such circumstances, knowing that some people will never recover, I fully recognize from a logical perspective that adultery does indeed do great harm to people and by extent society. This is my only reason for saying it should be a punishable crime. We punish theft harshly even when it is something very small, and we punish assaults that do barely any harm at all. Why should we not punish something that does far more harm to society? To say it is impractical to implement laws and punishments for it is a cop out. This is giving up on thinking about the way to handle it which solves nothing. We have thousands of laws, many of which are practical and feasible, many of which are not. Who are any of you to say we absolutely could not come up with a practical, feasible way to deal with it? I say you are dead wrong. With my above argument, I still find it silly the argument that regulating adultery is regulating the bedroom, or regulating sex. Regulating adultery is regulating marriage. I am not saying the government should punish someone for having sex with this person or that person, or having sex in this way or that way. I am saying the government should punish someone for violating the legal marriage contract. Furthermore, I am not saying the government go and actively investigate if people are having adultery. I am not saying the government should prosecute someone on the mere accusation of adultery. I am also not saying the government should automatically break up the family when a member is found guilty of adultery. No. meh, you are assuming way too many things and going too far with how you think things would go down based on nothing I have said and based on no proof that you have. That said, I should give you credit in that you bring up possibilities that should be avoided. You want me to come up with a system to deal with adultery, fine, I'll come up with a bloody system. 1. Adultery is defined as a married person having extramarital sexual relations without the permission of his or her spouse. 2. Accusing an individual of adultery is illegal without incriminating evidence. 3. The penalty for adultery is a $1000 fine and 6 months of once-a-week rehabilitation classes. Simple. It puts a harsh enough penalty that it will discourage adultery. It's penalty is not so harsh that it destroys families. It is no more infeasible than much of the rest of the judicial system. And it ties up some nice loose ends (the issues of moral adultery and false accusation). It's not perfect, but at least I address the issue instead of just sweeping it aside like it's nothing. My solution is practical enough. EDIT: Oh, and Hovercraft Insurance. No really. Hovercraft Insurance. We really do have laws about that. :D Edited by Sedulius, Jan 25 2012, 02:57 AM.
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11:34 AM Jul 13