Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
This forum is used with the NationStates web-game designed and run by Max Barry. While not officially affiliated, this serves as the regional forum for the regions: Middle East, African Continent, American Continent, Asian Continent, and European Continent.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and can "read only".

In order to get the most out of these forums, please become a member and read this guide - http://z3.invisionfree.com/nationstates/index.php?showtopic=3060


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Greek Fisherman
Topic Started: Jun 23 2010, 05:50 PM (766 Views)
Telosan
Member Avatar
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Here's an email I got a while ago. Figured I'd share it for whatever reason I had thought of when I read this the first time, though I can't remember that reason anymore.

Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rhadamanthus
Member Avatar
Legitimist

Wonderful :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hastine
Member Avatar
Universi enim hic sumus.
 *  *  *  *  *  *
That genuinely put a smile on my face. Good find, Telo.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Abnar
Member Avatar
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
An identical story, with a Mexican fisherman instead of Greek, is on the wall at every Jimmy John's sandwich place. =P
Edited by Abnar, Jun 23 2010, 10:30 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
New Harumf
Member Avatar
Bloodthirsty Unicorn
I like very much. Ahh, to be a Greek fisherman (no, I did not say, "Ahh, to Greek a fisherman." Get yer heads out of the gutter.)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Aelius
Member Avatar
Norman Warlord
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 08:12 AM
I like very much. Ahh, to be a Greek fisherman (no, I did not say, "Ahh, to Greek a fisherman." Get yer heads out of the gutter.)
:huh: I don't get it. Knowing you, maybe I don't want to. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hastine
Member Avatar
Universi enim hic sumus.
 *  *  *  *  *  *
Lansdallius
Jun 24 2010, 11:11 AM
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 08:12 AM
I like very much. Ahh, to be a Greek fisherman (no, I did not say, "Ahh, to Greek a fisherman." Get yer heads out of the gutter.)
:huh: I don't get it. Knowing you, maybe I don't want to. :P
White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” - Rev. Al Sharpton

The ancient Greeks are also pretty much famous for having, umm, boy-man relations. :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Nag Ehgoeg
Member Avatar
The Devil's Advocate

This is an oldie but a goodie.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Menhad
Member Avatar
ET2(IDW)
Hesperia
Jun 24 2010, 11:45 AM
White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” - Rev. Al Sharpton
Yeah bullshit Sharpton, bullshit.

I hate that man.
Edited by Menhad, Jun 24 2010, 09:50 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rhadamanthus
Member Avatar
Legitimist

Hesperia
Jun 24 2010, 11:45 AM
Lansdallius
Jun 24 2010, 11:11 AM
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 08:12 AM
I like very much. Ahh, to be a Greek fisherman (no, I did not say, "Ahh, to Greek a fisherman." Get yer heads out of the gutter.)
:huh: I don't get it. Knowing you, maybe I don't want to. :P
White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” - Rev. Al Sharpton

The ancient Greeks are also pretty much famous for having, umm, boy-man relations. :P
Ever seen Richard Nixon's rant about Greek homosexuality?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Union
Member Avatar
Pyrenees Republic
HAROOOOOO.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
Hesperia
Jun 24 2010, 11:45 AM
White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” - Rev. Al Sharpton
I think adopting an Afrocentric Worldview is a legitimate cure for depression, anxiety, and virtually all psychological problems.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jun 24 2010, 02:11 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Hesperia
Jun 24 2010, 11:45 AM
Lansdallius
Jun 24 2010, 11:11 AM
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 08:12 AM
I like very much. Ahh, to be a Greek fisherman (no, I did not say, "Ahh, to Greek a fisherman." Get yer heads out of the gutter.)
:huh: I don't get it. Knowing you, maybe I don't want to. :P
White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” - Rev. Al Sharpton

The ancient Greeks are also pretty much famous for having, umm, boy-man relations. :P
Speak f***ing English, Sharpton! You're words are unsophisticated and offensive!

I'm honestly sickened that the word Greek is associated with homosexuality. I'm also sickened it's associated with fraternities that have nothing to do with Greek traditions.

Homosexuality was accepted in Athenian and Cretan society. It was not acceptable in Sparta until it's power had waned considerably. I can't say for certain elsewhere, but I find it offensive to generalize Greek society as gay.

Ironically, the Cretan Sacred Band, made up entirely of homosexual partners, defeated the Spartans. They fought well as a unit, since they had they loved one right next to them to defend, and they had to show their strength in front of their loved one.

This is why I don't object to homosexuals being in the military if they were to be separate from heterosexuals. Think of it this way. Usually, heterosexual men are uncomfortable with sharing showers with homosexual men, just as women are uncomfortable with sharing showers with men.

-----

Anyways, I'm a bit annoyed that this thread had anything to do with homosexuality. It's disrespectful to the Greeks and the noble message of the story.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
New Harumf
Member Avatar
Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Sedulius
Jun 24 2010, 02:43 PM
Hesperia
Jun 24 2010, 11:45 AM
Lansdallius
Jun 24 2010, 11:11 AM
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 08:12 AM
I like very much. Ahh, to be a Greek fisherman (no, I did not say, "Ahh, to Greek a fisherman." Get yer heads out of the gutter.)
:huh: I don't get it. Knowing you, maybe I don't want to. :P
White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” - Rev. Al Sharpton

The ancient Greeks are also pretty much famous for having, umm, boy-man relations. :P
Speak f***ing English, Sharpton! You're words are unsophisticated and offensive!

I'm honestly sickened that the word Greek is associated with homosexuality. I'm also sickened it's associated with fraternities that have nothing to do with Greek traditions.

Homosexuality was accepted in Athenian and Cretan society. It was not acceptable in Sparta until it's power had waned considerably. I can't say for certain elsewhere, but I find it offensive to generalize Greek society as gay.

Ironically, the Cretan Sacred Band, made up entirely of homosexual partners, defeated the Spartans. They fought well as a unit, since they had they loved one right next to them to defend, and they had to show their strength in front of their loved one.

This is why I don't object to homosexuals being in the military if they were to be separate from heterosexuals. Think of it this way. Usually, heterosexual men are uncomfortable with sharing showers with homosexual men, just as women are uncomfortable with sharing showers with men.

-----

Anyways, I'm a bit annoyed that this thread had anything to do with homosexuality. It's disrespectful to the Greeks and the noble message of the story.
Sed, you should really stop being such a racist, and linguistic eliteist. Most African-americans are decendants from west Africans that were brought to this country, shall we say, involuntarily. Their original West African languages had only one verb of being, while English has many, and no consistancy to the use of then either. Plus, when you consider Southern slave holders were not too worried about educating their slaves, it makes perfect sense that the use of a single verb of being, for some "was" for some "be", for some "is", would be adopted into their English dialect.

Just as imigrants from other European countries found it very odd that English second person singular pronoun was the same as the plural, so they added them to the language, giving us "y'all" and "youse" and "you guys". Neither dialect is "wrong" within it's own dialect, as a matter of fact, it follows very strict rules of speech, just like the dropped and added "R"'s of the Boston natives - it just doesn't follow the "codified" MLA standard definition of English. So what. That's why English is getting stale, it needs to be less rigid and more free to adapt, but ever since the invention of the printing press, it has been harder and harder to change. I assure you, although you can read Sharkespeare just fine, if you were to hear one of his plays in the original Elizabethian dialect, you would be apalled, and not understand a word, yet that is the dialect we have basically codified.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Oh yes. I'm so racist for disliking how many people of the African-American culture speak. Yet I get along fine with Nigerians and Caribbeans and other foreigners of African decent.

That is the problem with American society these days. So many misconceptions. If I was racist I would hate all people of African decent simply because of the color of their skin. Instead I am called racist because I dislike African-American culture, even though I have no problem with Caribbean and native African cultures. It's bullshit if you ask me.

I'm culturist. Get it right. Yes, I just made up a word.

EDIT: And also I am offended that you think I would be appalled by and wouldn't understand Elizabethian English. You underestimate my classical education. I can understand much of Old English as it is, so Elizabethian English is child's play to me. Furthermore, I fail to see how I would be appalled by it unless they referred to the Irish in a derogatory manner, which I'm sure those bastards did at many times.
Edited by Sedulius, Jun 24 2010, 03:28 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hastine
Member Avatar
Universi enim hic sumus.
 *  *  *  *  *  *
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 02:56 PM
Their original West African languages had only one verb of being, while English has many,
And yet Al Sharpton insists that Africans invented modern philosophy...

Cheap shot, I know. :lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rhadamanthus
Member Avatar
Legitimist

Sedulius
Jun 24 2010, 03:23 PM
I can understand much of Old English as it is,
That is pretty impressive :)

When I was in eleventh-grade, we had a student teacher who had studied Old English, and so took the time to read portions of Beowulf (which we were reading in modern English) to us in the original. It was largely unintellegible to us; not surprising, as IIRC it not only had different phonemes, but also was still a highly inflected language. So being able to understand it is a wonderful talent :) Did you study Anglo-Saxon at some point?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
The use of ebonics is necessary to get into the jive state of consciousness. Still, much like a pallantir (Nerd alert) it should be used sparingly lest you suffer bad consequences. Rev. Al is not an ineloquent man. I saw a video of him debating Christopher Hitchens over the issue of evolution/creationism and he was able to hold his own against this exquisitely cocky British bastard.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Nag Ehgoeg
Member Avatar
The Devil's Advocate

Rhadamanthus
Jun 24 2010, 03:35 PM
Sedulius
Jun 24 2010, 03:23 PM
I can understand much of Old English as it is,
That is pretty impressive :)

When I was in eleventh-grade, we had a student teacher who had studied Old English, and so took the time to read portions of Beowulf (which we were reading in modern English) to us in the original. It was largely unintellegible to us; not surprising, as IIRC it not only had different phonemes, but also was still a highly inflected language. So being able to understand it is a wonderful talent :) Did you study Anglo-Saxon at some point?
Yeah, this.

Only with less passive aggression and more "STFU Sed". Old English is not Ye Olde Englishe. Nor is it linguistically similar to Gaeilge. Unless you've actually f***ing studied Elizabethian English and Shakespearian English (because there's a large phonetic difference) for at least a year, I'm calling "BULL S***!"

Reading a play with a funny accent does not make you an authority.

Sedulius
 
Ironically, the Cretan Sacred Band, made up entirely of homosexual partners, defeated the Spartans.
Ironically the most effective ancient Greek army defeated a different Greek army? I don't see the irony.

When one considers the ancient Greeks, one considers the Athens first. Achilles, Plato, Socrates, Aesop, Homer, Archimedes: if not Athenian, they accomplished their greatest feats in Athens. Homosexuality? Athenian.

And I cannot think of any Spartan mandates against homosexuality. Certainly they had a low opinion of the Thebans and their gay armies.
Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Jun 24 2010, 04:08 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
New Harumf
Member Avatar
Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Nag Ehgoeg
Jun 24 2010, 03:48 PM
Rhadamanthus
Jun 24 2010, 03:35 PM
Sedulius
Jun 24 2010, 03:23 PM
I can understand much of Old English as it is,
That is pretty impressive :)

When I was in eleventh-grade, we had a student teacher who had studied Old English, and so took the time to read portions of Beowulf (which we were reading in modern English) to us in the original. It was largely unintellegible to us; not surprising, as IIRC it not only had different phonemes, but also was still a highly inflected language. So being able to understand it is a wonderful talent :) Did you study Anglo-Saxon at some point?
Yeah, this.

Only with less passive aggression and more "STFU Sed". Old English is not Ye Olde Englishe. Nor is it linguistically similar to Gaeilge. Unless you've actually f***ing studied Elizabethian English and Shakespearian English (because there's a large phonetic difference) for at least a year, I'm calling "BULL S***!"

Reading a play with a funny accent does not make you an authority.

Sedulius
 
Ironically, the Cretan Sacred Band, made up entirely of homosexual partners, defeated the Spartans.
Ironically the most effective ancient Greek army defeated a different Greek army? I don't see the irony.

When one considers the ancient Greeks, one considers the Athens first. Achilles, Plato, Socrates, Aesop, Homer, Archimedes: if not Athenian, they accomplished their greatest feats in Athens. Homosexuality? Athenian.

And I cannot think of any Spartan mandates against homosexuality. Certainly they had a low opinion of the Thebans and their gay armies.
Travel to Mathews Island, off the coast of Virginia. They were isolated from the mainland since the early 17th century, and their settlers were all frrom London's west end. They are the closest dialect on earth to original Elizabethian English, and they are totally unintelligable.

Trust me, you cannot read, or understand Old English (Beowolf).

You can barely understand Middle English (Chaucer):
Whan that aprill with his shoures soote
The droghte of march hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
Tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the ram his halve cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye
(so priketh hem nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of engelond to caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.

and unless you can read that in perfect Iambic pentameter, you don't know how to pronounce Middle English.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hastine
Member Avatar
Universi enim hic sumus.
 *  *  *  *  *  *
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 04:40 PM
You can barely understand Middle English (Chaucer):
Whan that aprill with his shoures soote
The droghte of march hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
Tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the ram his halve cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye
(so priketh hem nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of engelond to caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.

and unless you can read that in perfect Iambic pentameter, you don't know how to pronounce Middle English.
I could understand the majority of this with relative ease (and no, I didn't look at the Wikipedia page that has this until after). Although this is partly because I read Chaucer for English, and because I did two assignments in Iambic Pentametre. :sad:

The Canterbury Tales were written about 100 years before the Great Vowel Shift, which gave us the pronounciation of English we have today. This means that Middle English's pronounciation would be more likely to follow the way the word is spelt, unlike today's English. I'm guessing that "breeth and "heeth", for example, are pronounced like a long "ay", since there are two of them, unlike in Modern English where "ee" is pronounced like a long i.

I agree with the Old English thing though. That shit is totally unintelligible, since so many of our words come from Norman-French, Latin and Greek.
Edited by Hastine, Jun 24 2010, 04:57 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Telosan
Member Avatar
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Old English Translator

This is what I used for Angelcynn in the first incarnation of NS2. It might as well have been another language. Any knowledge on Germanic and Latin languages provided little help when trying to understand this. Just look up a few simple words, you'll see what I mean.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Toussaint
Member Avatar
Major
New Harumf
Jun 24 2010, 04:40 PM
Trust me, you cannot read, or understand Old English (Beowolf).

You can barely understand Middle English (Chaucer):

Whan that aprill with his shoures soote
The droghte of march hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
Tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the ram his halve cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye
(so priketh hem nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of engelond to caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.
This is Middle English. Reading it is at least [mostly] intelligible, and what you can't understand you could probably find with a Google search.

This is OLD English, before the French came in and helped create the modern English we know and love today. It is NOT intelligible unless you have studies it, as it lacks some serious linguistic connection with what we speak today:

From Beowulf

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,

monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra

Did you get that? Me neither.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Abnar
Member Avatar
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
Hey, what's wrong with linguistic elitism?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Okay, then it's Middle English I understand, not Old English.

That said, I don't think I can call so-called Old English such. To hell with the current records. Anglo-Saxons (Angles and Saxons) are Germanic peoples and the native Britons are Brythonic peoples. The Romans possibly contributed some Latin. I don't see how that equals English. I've honestly never looked at Beowulf as a peace of English literature, as much as it is touted as such. For goodness sakes, it's about Geats (from Sweden) in Denmark. It was likely brought over by the Anglo-Saxons (Saxony being directly below Denmark).

Look, you guys know your history. I don't need to explain this further.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Off-Topic · Next Topic »
Add Reply