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History of Republicanism
Topic Started: Jun 4 2010, 12:22 AM (729 Views)
NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

I think the point was to find more radical republicans to start stuff with the monarchist which isn't a bad idea given that it will lead to good tension and good stories, or at least I hope such actions will.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
The oldest "republic" in NSWR was the Federal Dictatorship of United Elias (Member #6). According to the fact sheet its President and provincial governors were unelected, but its parliament and local officials were elected by universal suffrage with the technical disclaimer "However the results of elections can be overturned by the government".

United Elias was immolated in the United Elias War and partitioned to all the Great Powers of the Middle East except for Nag Ehgoeg and Catholic Europe which were neutral during the war. In Baghdad the prostrate capital city of United Elias the victors of the war convened the Baghdad Pact; however the Trilateral Commission declined to join this new alliance.
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Deleted User
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NRE
Jun 6 2010, 09:30 PM
I think the point was to find more radical republicans to start stuff with the monarchist which isn't a bad idea given that it will lead to good tension and good stories, or at least I hope such actions will.
This is exactly the point.
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Sedulius
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Field Marshal
All this republicanism vs monarchist stuff is kind of silly. I'm taking Ireland a different route when that war is over. Or exactly the same. Depends on your perspective. You can call me a monarchy, an empire, a republic, a democracy... There's just so many bullshit definitions out there it doesn't matter.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
What would it be?
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Rhadamanthus
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Tristan da Cunha
Jun 6 2010, 09:33 PM
The oldest "republic" in NSWR was the Federal Dictatorship of United Elias (Member #6). According to the fact sheet its President and provincial governors were unelected, but its parliament and local officials were elected by universal suffrage with the technical disclaimer "However the results of elections can be overturned by the government".

United Elias was immolated in the United Elias War and partitioned to all the Great Powers of the Middle East except for Nag Ehgoeg and Catholic Europe which were neutral during the war. In Baghdad the prostrate capital city of United Elias the victors of the war convened the Baghdad Pact; however the Trilateral Commission declined to join this new alliance.
Good times.
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

Rhadamanthus
Jun 5 2010, 06:56 PM
Ulgania
Jun 5 2010, 02:48 PM
Porcu
Jun 5 2010, 12:25 PM
I've slowly worked to establish myself again after Porcu's bout with Fascism, but does that seriously hinder her credibility in the eyes of other countries? What is the opinion of other countries with regard to Porcu's claim?

Btw, Venice is seen as a possible bridge between the two sides by Porcu (Stockholm holds the same opinion about itself, even though it no longer has any monarchical institutions).
I've always pegged the alliance between Ulgania and Porcu / Ulgania and Rome as those of mutually beneficial for security. Ulgania and Rome do not share a religion, and Ulgania and Porcu have different systems of government in place nowadays. Either way, political doctrine has not gotten in the way of international stability.
Exactly; I call that doctrine "sanity".
See although I understand the principle of it all, I don't like this. We have good times during the early days of NSWR because we had clearer divisions among the various nations. With the Dominion over and done with, the lines seem a bit muddy right now and we need to clear it up some how. I proposed in private to a few various people that a cold war between the democracies/Republicans vs. the Monarchist may solve this issue as it was at the time and still is to a point, the clearest division so far that we have.

However, that is not necessarily the way we have to go. If it works then we'll run with it and if it doesn't then maybe at the very least it will lead us in a better direction. Point is, we need enemies and we need a good deal of them. We need tension in our world and therefore need to find the stuff that makes us different and exploit it for the good purpose of creating good stories. A time or two ago we have a decently vocal Pope and a Holy League to start pushing people around. A TOK in Europe, Asian Union in Asia, CENTO in Africa (ok a stretch), so on and so forth. We have Prussians and Germans that did not get along, Egyptian/the other major group that made up Eygeria that didn't get along with Catholic Europe.

Hopefully this will all just work itself out naturally, as naturally created enemies are the best. Why I remember a story between myself, Kasnyia, AA, and Nor (perhaps others, I don't remember all the particulars). Basically a madman had a nuclear-armed warship that was of Eastern Empire origin and was threatening to blow shit up. The EE wanted their ship back so their technology didn't fall into the hands of others, AA wanted some the technology, Nor was simply there to stop him cause the target was close to, if not in his territory, and Kas played the madman. Well the ship ran ashore, the EE, AA, and Velorya all got troops on board to try and secure both the ship and the madman. EE got to the madman first and we thought we'd killed him, so after securing precious data from the ship, we pulled out and left. AA, stole some info and left which left the Veloryans to clean up the mess. The thing was, OOC, I didn't think leaving would cause a problem so I left. Apparently, however, IC the Veloryans held a grudge about it which, overtime blossomed into a beautiful hatred and rivalry between the Eastern Empire and Velorya, something that happen completely by accident from and OOC perspective but because it worked out so nicely we ran with it and had a blast.

hmmmmm where was I, oh yea....our world needs enemies and we shouldn't pass up opportunities to make um :lol:
Edited by NRE, Jun 7 2010, 01:21 PM.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
I'm slowly trying to evolve the Dissith and a couple future Player Characters into global enemies right now :lol:
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Aelius
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Norman Warlord
Oh, the Vikings will make things fun. :D :evil:
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Telosan
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The TO and Venice turned into rivals. I guess you could say Celebes and Chilsherdia have a small scale rivalry as well.

I wish I was there for the old epic stories. :sad:
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
Telosan
Jun 7 2010, 01:41 PM
The TO and Venice turned into rivals. I guess you could say Celebes and Chilsherdia have a small scale rivalry as well.

I wish I was there for the old epic stories. :sad:
We're in a position to set up those stories. That's really what I've been trying to do, in a post-Dominion sort of way. Go out of your way to have a minor event, but make sure that event has a ripple effect. ^^

I'm looking to do something with Chilserdia. I like the aristocratic, pomp and circumstance style nation, but I'd like to RP a republic. Asia could use that, so it'll get just that. It might take a revolution, or a ret-con, but it'll happen.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Ulgania
Jun 7 2010, 01:53 PM
Telosan
Jun 7 2010, 01:41 PM
The TO and Venice turned into rivals. I guess you could say Celebes and Chilsherdia have a small scale rivalry as well.

I wish I was there for the old epic stories. :sad:
We're in a position to set up those stories. That's really what I've been trying to do, in a post-Dominion sort of way. Go out of your way to have a minor event, but make sure that event has a ripple effect. ^^

I'm looking to do something with Chilserdia. I like the aristocratic, pomp and circumstance style nation, but I'd like to RP a republic. Asia could use that, so it'll get just that. It might take a revolution, or a ret-con, but it'll happen.
That'd be a nice contrast to a dictator-led Celebes. How about we work up an idea for Celebes to help incite the revolution. As a dictator, Irulen would see a democratic government in his rival as weaker, because they all have to agree on something to get it accomplished whereas he just has to tell people what to do. Who's in charge now? Maybe Irulen could call a meeting, in which he personally assassinates the Chilsherdian head of state just as the revolution breaks out.
Edited by Telosan, Jun 7 2010, 02:31 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

NRE
Jun 7 2010, 12:52 PM
Rhadamanthus
Jun 5 2010, 06:56 PM
Ulgania
Jun 5 2010, 02:48 PM
Porcu
Jun 5 2010, 12:25 PM
I've slowly worked to establish myself again after Porcu's bout with Fascism, but does that seriously hinder her credibility in the eyes of other countries? What is the opinion of other countries with regard to Porcu's claim?

Btw, Venice is seen as a possible bridge between the two sides by Porcu (Stockholm holds the same opinion about itself, even though it no longer has any monarchical institutions).
I've always pegged the alliance between Ulgania and Porcu / Ulgania and Rome as those of mutually beneficial for security. Ulgania and Rome do not share a religion, and Ulgania and Porcu have different systems of government in place nowadays. Either way, political doctrine has not gotten in the way of international stability.
Exactly; I call that doctrine "sanity".
See although I understand the principle of it all, I don't like this. We have good times during the early days of NSWR because we had clearer divisions among the various nations. With the Dominion over and done with, the lines seem a bit muddy right now and we need to clear it up some how. I proposed in private to a few various people that a cold war between the democracies/Republicans vs. the Monarchist may solve this issue as it was at the time and still is to a point, the clearest division so far that we have.

However, that is not necessarily the way we have to go. If it works then we'll run with it and if it doesn't then maybe at the very least it will lead us in a better direction. Point is, we need enemies and we need a good deal of them. We need tension in our world and therefore need to find the stuff that makes us different and exploit it for the good purpose of creating good stories. A time or two ago we have a decently vocal Pope and a Holy League to start pushing people around. A TOK in Europe, Asian Union in Asia, CENTO in Africa (ok a stretch), so on and so forth. We have Prussians and Germans that did not get along, Egyptian/the other major group that made up Eygeria that didn't get along with Catholic Europe.

Hopefully this will all just work itself out naturally, as naturally created enemies are the best. Why I remember a story between myself, Kasnyia, AA, and Nor (perhaps others, I don't remember all the particulars). Basically a madman had a nuclear-armed warship that was of Eastern Empire origin and was threatening to blow shit up. The EE wanted their ship back so their technology didn't fall into the hands of others, AA wanted some the technology, Nor was simply there to stop him cause the target was close to, if not in his territory, and Kas played the madman. Well the ship ran ashore, the EE, AA, and Velorya all got troops on board to try and secure both the ship and the madman. EE got to the madman first and we thought we'd killed him, so after securing precious data from the ship, we pulled out and left. AA, stole some info and left which left the Veloryans to clean up the mess. The thing was, OOC, I didn't think leaving would cause a problem so I left. Apparently, however, IC the Veloryans held a grudge about it which, overtime blossomed into a beautiful hatred and rivalry between the Eastern Empire and Velorya, something that happen completely by accident from and OOC perspective but because it worked out so nicely we ran with it and had a blast.

hmmmmm where was I, oh yea....our world needs enemies and we shouldn't pass up opportunities to make um :lol:
I agree to a point, but ideological conflicts and cold wars are devices that can only be used so often before getting old. On the other hand, personal enemies and fluctuating alliances (the muddy, not clear, divisions) never get stale and provide continual changing foci for conflicts. Ideology and clear lines can be fun, but they are tiring and should be exceptions and not the rule.
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

Rhadamanthus
Jun 7 2010, 02:38 PM
I agree to a point, but ideological conflicts and cold wars are devices that can only be used so often before getting old. On the other hand, personal enemies and fluctuating alliances (the muddy, not clear, divisions) never get stale and provide continual changing foci for conflicts. Ideology and clear lines can be fun, but they are tiring and should be exceptions and not the rule.
Ok well now this I shall agree on. Personal enemies do make for better stories than say ideological differences but sometimes the two can mix, such as the case of the Holy League and all the mess it ever got into. I mean we fought for Genesians world-wide but also, many many of the time we fought enemies we had personal vendettas against (Prussia Vs. SC/CE for an example).

But I assume we agree that one can lead into the other and so long as the enemies are made then all is well. I suppose the best point to make is to not get caught up in one story arch or another, but to remain open minded and when at all possible, consider every angle as a valid path to take given that the past you're least likely to take may provide to yield the best overall results.
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Rhadamanthus
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NRE
Jun 7 2010, 02:56 PM
Rhadamanthus
Jun 7 2010, 02:38 PM
I agree to a point, but ideological conflicts and cold wars are devices that can only be used so often before getting old. On the other hand, personal enemies and fluctuating alliances (the muddy, not clear, divisions) never get stale and provide continual changing foci for conflicts. Ideology and clear lines can be fun, but they are tiring and should be exceptions and not the rule.
Ok well now this I shall agree on. Personal enemies do make for better stories than say ideological differences but sometimes the two can mix, such as the case of the Holy League and all the mess it ever got into. I mean we fought for Genesians world-wide but also, many many of the time we fought enemies we had personal vendettas against (Prussia Vs. SC/CE for an example).

But I assume we agree that one can lead into the other and so long as the enemies are made then all is well. I suppose the best point to make is to not get caught up in one story arch or another, but to remain open minded and when at all possible, consider every angle as a valid path to take given that the past you're least likely to take may provide to yield the best overall results.
Yes, that is a great overall statement :)
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Deleted User
Deleted User

NRE
Jun 7 2010, 12:52 PM
Rhadamanthus
Jun 5 2010, 06:56 PM
Ulgania
Jun 5 2010, 02:48 PM
Porcu
Jun 5 2010, 12:25 PM
I've slowly worked to establish myself again after Porcu's bout with Fascism, but does that seriously hinder her credibility in the eyes of other countries? What is the opinion of other countries with regard to Porcu's claim?

Btw, Venice is seen as a possible bridge between the two sides by Porcu (Stockholm holds the same opinion about itself, even though it no longer has any monarchical institutions).
I've always pegged the alliance between Ulgania and Porcu / Ulgania and Rome as those of mutually beneficial for security. Ulgania and Rome do not share a religion, and Ulgania and Porcu have different systems of government in place nowadays. Either way, political doctrine has not gotten in the way of international stability.
Exactly; I call that doctrine "sanity".
See although I understand the principle of it all, I don't like this. We have good times during the early days of NSWR because we had clearer divisions among the various nations. With the Dominion over and done with, the lines seem a bit muddy right now and we need to clear it up some how. I proposed in private to a few various people that a cold war between the democracies/Republicans vs. the Monarchist may solve this issue as it was at the time and still is to a point, the clearest division so far that we have.

However, that is not necessarily the way we have to go. If it works then we'll run with it and if it doesn't then maybe at the very least it will lead us in a better direction. Point is, we need enemies and we need a good deal of them. We need tension in our world and therefore need to find the stuff that makes us different and exploit it for the good purpose of creating good stories. A time or two ago we have a decently vocal Pope and a Holy League to start pushing people around. A TOK in Europe, Asian Union in Asia, CENTO in Africa (ok a stretch), so on and so forth. We have Prussians and Germans that did not get along, Egyptian/the other major group that made up Eygeria that didn't get along with Catholic Europe.

Hopefully this will all just work itself out naturally, as naturally created enemies are the best. Why I remember a story between myself, Kasnyia, AA, and Nor (perhaps others, I don't remember all the particulars). Basically a madman had a nuclear-armed warship that was of Eastern Empire origin and was threatening to blow shit up. The EE wanted their ship back so their technology didn't fall into the hands of others, AA wanted some the technology, Nor was simply there to stop him cause the target was close to, if not in his territory, and Kas played the madman. Well the ship ran ashore, the EE, AA, and Velorya all got troops on board to try and secure both the ship and the madman. EE got to the madman first and we thought we'd killed him, so after securing precious data from the ship, we pulled out and left. AA, stole some info and left which left the Veloryans to clean up the mess. The thing was, OOC, I didn't think leaving would cause a problem so I left. Apparently, however, IC the Veloryans held a grudge about it which, overtime blossomed into a beautiful hatred and rivalry between the Eastern Empire and Velorya, something that happen completely by accident from and OOC perspective but because it worked out so nicely we ran with it and had a blast.

hmmmmm where was I, oh yea....our world needs enemies and we shouldn't pass up opportunities to make um :lol:
Why can't we all do this?

Its so easy, just do what I do. Take the norm, throw it out the window, and do the exact opposite.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
As a D&D DM, I agree with essentially everything stated so far.

I look at my government as the DM for its people, and myself, personally, as a PC among PCs. If you make a decision that results in OOC-bickering/meta-gaming, then odds are you're taking your RP in a bad direction (and then, as the executive decision maker for your country, how would the citizens feel about this? Even soldiers think for themselves).

...I'm discussing meta-gaming in a meta discussion.

EDIT for TC's post below:

I meant bickering that leads to rage-quitting.
Edited by Ulgania, Jun 7 2010, 05:48 PM.
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Tristan da Cunha
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There needs to be just the right amount of OOC bickering, not too much and not too little. The best RPs all had OOC bickering which was resolved in IC denouement, leaving fond memories for all. Of course, it is a difficult tightrope to walk and does not always turn out favorably, such as the Egyria/CE explosion (even though Egyria and CE had created many fascinating RPs before their final parting).
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