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OOC: Imperator Scottorum; Great Irish Civil War
Topic Started: Apr 4 2010, 04:57 PM (7,378 Views)
Hastine
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Universi enim hic sumus.
 *  *  *  *  *  *
*Sigh* I love how so many posts, including the most recent one, have, you know, completely ignored my presence in the Irish Sea, even though I've made it perfectly clear where I am, and that a third of my freakin' navy is there. Makes me want to leave the conflict all together.
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Toussaint
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I know you're there. However, I looked at Telo's map for most of my information, and wasn't quite sure where your forces were.

Tell me, and I can edit you in.
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Sedulius
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Yeah, I recognize you're there too. I'm just trying to get the plot moving as planned. Naval warfare will continue, but the focus is going to be more on land once TO lands troops.
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Deleted User
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Well, once I get the time, I'm putting a map back up. Things are getting too confusing as it is. The map wont be a perfect representation of the battles, but it'll serve as a much needed visual.

Though I wont be able to post for the next couple days, as I'm busy with swim.


By the way, Telosan, are you going to listen at all to what I said about the trenches?
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Telosan
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Atticus
May 14 2010, 12:49 AM
Well, once I get the time, I'm putting a map back up. Things are getting too confusing as it is. The map wont be a perfect representation of the battles, but it'll serve as a much needed visual.

Though I wont be able to post for the next couple days, as I'm busy with swim.


By the way, Telosan, are you going to listen at all to what I said about the trenches?
Sed told me he didn't want a map because it would confused everyone, so I stopped updating it.

Atticus, the Venetians will just dig their own trenches then.
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Sedulius
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Telosan
May 14 2010, 05:36 AM
Atticus
May 14 2010, 12:49 AM
Well, once I get the time, I'm putting a map back up. Things are getting too confusing as it is. The map wont be a perfect representation of the battles, but it'll serve as a much needed visual.

Though I wont be able to post for the next couple days, as I'm busy with swim.


By the way, Telosan, are you going to listen at all to what I said about the trenches?
Sed told me he didn't want a map because it would confused everyone, so I stopped updating it.

Atticus, the Venetians will just dig their own trenches then.
Yeah, the same would go for if Atticus made one too.

I take this as that there is high demand for a map, so I will make one.

But what really needs to happen is TO's landing of troops. I suppose I should PM him. Really, we can hold off on maps until the next stage has taken place.

All you need to know right now is that most of the naval action is happening away from Ireland in the Atlantic, naval breakthroughs are about to happen at Cork by the Teutons and Dublin by the Welsh, other than that William and his allies have Ireland under control. With the breakthroughs that will change, and then we more or less start the real war.
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Filo
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If Rome is menace the HRE will can considere the possibility to occupy the city, if this not means enter in the war.
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Telosan
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Filo
May 14 2010, 10:19 AM
If Rome is menace the HRE will can considere the possibility to occupy the city, if this not means enter in the war.
Venice doesn't like the fact that "foreign" powers currently hold any land at all in Italy. Plus, since by the time Rome would be occupied, Venice will have completed its expansion and completely surround Rome, a Roman enclave controlled by foreign power would be seen as a threat. Since Rome is currently independent as the seat of Genesian power, Venice is content to let them be until they do something to provoke them.

EDIT: Tou, there are no Venetian ships with the English-Sperian fleet in the Celtic Sea or more than a few at Wight. Wight is currently defended by the entirety of the Venetian aircraft in the region, as well as some Porcuians, I think.

The TO has landed. I'll have my troops go meet him.
Edited by Telosan, May 14 2010, 01:57 PM.
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Menhad
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Telosan
May 14 2010, 01:52 PM
Filo
May 14 2010, 10:19 AM
If Rome is menace the HRE will can considere the possibility to occupy the city, if this not means enter in the war.
Venice doesn't like the fact that "foreign" powers currently hold any land at all in Italy. Plus, since by the time Rome would be occupied, Venice will have completed its expansion and completely surround Rome, a Roman enclave controlled by foreign power would be seen as a threat. Since Rome is currently independent as the seat of Genesian power, Venice is content to let them be until they do something to provoke them.
Again, if anyone touches Rome they die.
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Filo
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Would not it intends to occupy permanently rome empire, let alone touch the power of the pope.
The emperor indeed, have every intention, as a neutral, to defend the holy city from possible reprisals.
The city would then be returned to the proper authorities after the war.

It seemed a useful way to intervene in this conflict
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Toussaint
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Telosan
May 14 2010, 01:52 PM
EDIT: Tou, there are no Venetian ships with the English-Sperian fleet in the Celtic Sea or more than a few at Wight. Wight is currently defended by the entirety of the Venetian aircraft in the region, as well as some Porcuians, I think.

Venetian naval presence had disappeared in the region?

And there don't need to be boats for an attack to commence at Wight. A bombardment is an option, and the cool thing about aircraft carriers is that they come packing some sky power too.
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Telosan
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Toussaint
May 14 2010, 06:21 PM
Telosan
May 14 2010, 01:52 PM
EDIT: Tou, there are no Venetian ships with the English-Sperian fleet in the Celtic Sea or more than a few at Wight. Wight is currently defended by the entirety of the Venetian aircraft in the region, as well as some Porcuians, I think.

Venetian naval presence had disappeared in the region?

And there don't need to be boats for an attack to commence at Wight. A bombardment is an option, and the cool thing about aircraft carriers is that they come packing some sky power too.
There's only a few ships left at Wight. Dandolo took the whole fleet into the Irish Sea, where they're probably fighting your western fleets right now. I was just reminding you of such since you mentioned submarines, which would be useless without a floating target. The isle is instead packing a ton of aircraft, so there will be a good resistance, maybe enough to keep the fleet away provided assistance comes.
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Toussaint
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Submarines are, indeed, capable of attacking land targets.

To give a few examples;

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/bgm-109.htm
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Russia_Tests_Sea_And_Land_Based_Nuke_Missiles_999.html
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/missile/jl1.asp

Meanwhile, sinking Subs from the sky may pose a significant challenge. Add that with the fact that my own aircraft will be scrambled, and two entire fleets are there- with more possibly on the way- and a Wight without sufficient sea defense will not be doing well.

Showdown time. :smoking:
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Telosan
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I did mention the presence of British aircraft, but why would sinking a sub from the sky pose a challenge? Provided they're not submerged, and I assume they must be surfaced if they intend on striking land, they're defenseless to aerial attacks, right?

The surprise attack at the beginning should've thinned your numbers a bit, though by how much is up to debate. I'm hoping on English air assistance and possibly Sperian sea assistance, though I've yet to alert them to the problem.
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Toussaint
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Telosan
May 14 2010, 07:53 PM
I did mention the presence of British aircraft, but why would sinking a sub from the sky pose a challenge? Provided they're not submerged, and I assume they must be surfaced if they intend on striking land, they're defenseless to aerial attacks, right?

The surprise attack at the beginning should've thinned your numbers a bit, though by how much is up to debate. I'm hoping on English air assistance and possibly Sperian sea assistance, though I've yet to alert them to the problem.
Certainly. I concede that being struck initially caused some casualties.

However, British ships would be armed with radar capable of seeing aircraft, you know. As soon as something was suspected to be up, aircraft on the ACCs would be scrambled. :rolleyes:

And who said the subs would be attacking right now? They've moderately stealthy, and they wouldn't surface while in an immediate danger zone. As of now, they are submerged, and deep under.
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Sedulius
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Filo
May 14 2010, 02:26 PM
Would not it intends to occupy permanently rome empire, let alone touch the power of the pope.
The emperor indeed, have every intention, as a neutral, to defend the holy city from possible reprisals.
The city would then be returned to the proper authorities after the war.

It seemed a useful way to intervene in this conflict
Actually this sound entirely appropriate. The Holy Roman Emperor occupying Rome is nothing new, and can the Teutonic Order really defy the Holy Roman Empire, its fatherland?

I suppose that what kind of Catholic the Holy Roman Emperor is comes into question, but one could say the Emperor doesn't care. He's the Emperor, he decides what goes down.

EDIT:

Toussaint
 
However, British ships would be armed with radar capable of seeing aircraft, you know.


Yeah, it's like everyone thinks navies don't have radars these days! Seriously, a fleet can see things happening miles away. You can't really surprise them.
Edited by Sedulius, May 15 2010, 03:58 AM.
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Filo
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We can accord with T.O to divide the city in two until the end of the war.
I beluve this may be an interesting RP.
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Aelius
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Shot through the head. That was unexpected. I thought you were going to exile him. What happens now?
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Toussaint
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Sedulius
May 15 2010, 03:56 AM
Toussaint
 
However, British ships would be armed with radar capable of seeing aircraft, you know.


Yeah, it's like everyone thinks navies don't have radars these days! Seriously, a fleet can see things happening miles away. You can't really surprise them.
Indeed. Telo, I think the damage of your initial strike needs to be rethought. Warships knowingly going into a combat situation wouldn't be so easy to surprise. Sure. Some damage would be done. But to say the water is "littered with hulls of burning British ships" is a massive overstatement. The second your planes would be in range, massive air resistance would be mobilized.
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Telosan
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Toussaint
May 15 2010, 11:08 AM
Sedulius
May 15 2010, 03:56 AM
Toussaint
 
However, British ships would be armed with radar capable of seeing aircraft, you know.


Yeah, it's like everyone thinks navies don't have radars these days! Seriously, a fleet can see things happening miles away. You can't really surprise them.
Indeed. Telo, I think the damage of your initial strike needs to be rethought. Warships knowingly going into a combat situation wouldn't be so easy to surprise. Sure. Some damage would be done. But to say the water is "littered with hulls of burning British ships" is a massive overstatement. The second your planes would be in range, massive air resistance would be mobilized.
Half of the aircraft were flying low to the water. I thought that made them harder to detect.
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Menhad
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Only if they are stealth....
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Sedulius
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Well, with Otto dead, the civil war is basically over, and this can now be fought as a conventional war. The Teutonic Knights are here and have Ireland on the ropes. I don't think they'll let such an opportunity slip them.

This is also perfect for the British. Now they can invade on their own terms... well, Genesian terms, but they can invade.

This also allows for everything to be conducted less haphazardly. We now essentially have the normal two "teams", and we can all coordinate accordingly. There are now actual stakes in the war, especially for myself as Ireland.

Essentially, the war can go any way at this point. I still intend to go running to the Romans if I lose.
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Toussaint
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Telosan
May 15 2010, 11:58 AM
Toussaint
May 15 2010, 11:08 AM
Sedulius
May 15 2010, 03:56 AM
Toussaint
 
However, British ships would be armed with radar capable of seeing aircraft, you know.
Yeah, it's like everyone thinks navies don't have radars these days! Seriously, a fleet can see things happening miles away. You can't really surprise them.
Indeed. Telo, I think the damage of your initial strike needs to be rethought. Warships knowingly going into a combat situation wouldn't be so easy to surprise. Sure. Some damage would be done. But to say the water is "littered with hulls of burning British ships" is a massive overstatement. The second your planes would be in range, massive air resistance would be mobilized.
Half of the aircraft were flying low to the water. I thought that made them harder to detect.
See what TO said.

Unless the aircraft are stealth fighters- which wasn't indicated- then they are still quite easily detectable.

As Sed said, there is really no surprising a fleet. Especially armed with multiple aircraft carriers, cruisers, frigates, submarines, aircraft, etc. which each has its own radar unit. My aircraft would have scrambled, in enough quantity to counteract your strike. I'll recognize the attack- but, I won't recognize that extremely significant damage was done. I'll concede to a cruiser or two.
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Menhad
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And sinking a ship is pretty hard.
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Toussaint
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Indeed. Takes much more than a couple of torpedoes.

But eh, I'll give you a sink or two. However, 'significant damage' to the fleet is a no-go.
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