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OOC: Imperator Scottorum; Great Irish Civil War
Topic Started: Apr 4 2010, 04:57 PM (7,382 Views)
Menhad
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ET2(IDW)
NRE
Apr 14 2010, 05:36 PM
I'm going to let T.O get a post in before I post again. Other than that, seems things are going nicely with this little war.
?

I'll post later, but NRE, you sneaky F**king Russian, what is that post supposed to mean?
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

T.O.
Apr 14 2010, 07:19 PM
NRE
Apr 14 2010, 05:36 PM
I'm going to let T.O get a post in before I post again. Other than that, seems things are going nicely with this little war.
?

I'll post later, but NRE, you sneaky F**king Russian, what is that post supposed to mean?
It's a trap!

Posted Image
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
T.O.
Apr 14 2010, 07:19 PM
NRE
Apr 14 2010, 05:36 PM
I'm going to let T.O get a post in before I post again. Other than that, seems things are going nicely with this little war.
?

I'll post later, but NRE, you sneaky F**king Russian, what is that post supposed to mean?
I almost want to sig that...

Here's the updated and approved map. I edited my last post to include it.

Posted Image
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Deleted User
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Hey Lans, are you just going to ignore the message I sent England?
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Aelius
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Norman Warlord
Well, yes and no.

Quote:
 
The majority of the English Fleet, under Admiral Marshall Smith, was ordered into positions to both help Venetian and Loyalist fleets fight off the HCC navy. The fleet was stationed on the eastern flanks of the Venetian fleet to aid with fighting off the HCC, and to also be in prime position should the Genesian Welsh decide to intervene.
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Deleted User
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Gotcha. Oh, and no one knows we are Genesians yet, except for the HCH and the TO.
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Sedulius
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Field Marshal
Wouldn't it be well known that the faith of an entire country is Genesian? That's pretty damn hard to hide.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
The bank is also aware, due to the bank's connections with the Genesian church.
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Kasnyia
Apr 15 2010, 01:14 AM
The bank is also aware, due to the bank's connections with the Genesian church.
The Bank is not aware, I have told no one yet except for the HCC and the Teutonic Order. Plus so far only my leader is Genesian, but he holds enough support and power to implement any institutions and brainwash the people into accepting a somewhat Celtic branch of the Genesian church. Other than that, I have not spoke to the church about such matters, and therefore would have no knowledge of Wales getting involved with Genesian affairs.

Also, don't think of Eryri Nibheis as too Genesian. Religion will play a part, but a small part. Right now my leader is more or less sucking up to the Genesians, playing on their faith to gain support. He is a devout Genesian though, and would stick through till the end, but know that he isn't as radical as say the TO.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
If the Church doesn't know, then playing up to the Teutons and whoever is not the same as playing up to the Church. The Popes of our world have more power than in RL, so its up to them ultimately who is considered Genesian/Colognian/whatever or not. And whatever the Genesian Pope knows, the bank knows.

Besides, with the bank assisting Otto, they naturally keep an eye on his allies, which include the Teutons.
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Toussaint
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Major
Kas, why does the bank need to know? If there's going to be a fuss, I don't see why it's worth it.
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Kasnyia
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The reasons are between me and Leb. I am merely stating the position of the bank with regards to the Church. You want to argue, you do it with someone else.
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Sedulius
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Field Marshal
Atticus, I'm going to have to draw the line here. Your post doesn't fly. Your military doesn't fly.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Firstly, from an ethical standpoint, I would refuse to even play you in a normal war. You're using a borrowed account to give you an unfair edge. You didn't earn that edge. If you want the respect of the forum, you need to go back to your old account and build it up, like the rest of us did when we were noobs.

Secondly, ethics out of the window, let's consider that you have a 9 billion population, above 40% defense spending, and a green economy. Your numbers are quite incorrect. Let's analyze this. My math is precise. Check it if you wish.

Army
Troop Allowance: 27 million normal quality; Number Taken: equivalent to 485 million normal quality
Ground Vehicle Allowance: 2700; Number Taken: 1850

Navy
Aircraft Carrier/Amphibious Assault Ship Allowance: 54; Number Taken: 60
Destroyer Allowance: 432 to 648; Number Taken: 600
Submarine Allowance: 216 to 432; Number Taken: 400
Frigate Allowance: 216 to 324; Number Taken: 400
Mine Hunter Allowance: 108 to 216; Number Taken: 200
Cruiser Allowance: 216 to 432; Number Taken: 400

Air Force
Jet Fighter Allowance: 2700; Number Taken: 3200
Heavy Bomber Allowance: 270; Number Taken: 240
Helicopter Allowance: 1800; Number Taken: 1850
Transport Plane Allowance: 180; Number Taken: 260
Support Plane Allowance: 180; Number Taken: 0

Most of these numbers are within acceptable bounds, but the infantry force, the number of aircraft carriers, and number of jet fighters are simply unacceptable.

If you want a larger navy, you need to do a decent of reduction in other areas.

I do my military on a sort of ratio system, that I got approved by Nag. Essentially, it works on a 1:1:1 system, the numbers representing Army:Air:Navy. Subtracting from one number allows you to add to another. In my case, Ireland has .5:.5:2, or 1/2:1/2:2 for you fraction types. This means I have reduced my army by half, my air force by half, but doubled my navy. I've also applied this to Edessa in the Middle East. The ratio is 2:1:0. It's landlocked, so it has no need for a navy, thus that value is added to the army. Add in that I don't round up my population to the next billion until I get very close, and I have a very legitimate military.

I'm not saying you have to use my system, I'm just presenting it as a way. Regardless, you need to change it to be reasonable.

Another major issue is that the numbers you bring out in your IC post do not even match the values you have listed. They go far beyond your allowances, and they seem to be derived off the top of the head.

Another major issue is that your offensive actions weren't even approved. On this forum, you can't simply attack, destroy, and invade without first working through a plan with the other players concerned, unless it has been stated that such is allowed. In this case, there is plan which me and the other players concerned are working on. Before you posted, you should have PMed me and asked about the plan, that way you could coordinate with the rest of us.

This war is the first war I have had in a long time, and I wanted it to be conducted by the book. You need to play fair and RP within the rules. If you don't know the rules, I suggest you read them.

All in all, I request you edit your post.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Blah blah blah.

I really don't care ^^ I don't give a shit about your ethics.

If there is a problem with my numbers, I'll change it. My bad. No need to fuss about it. Those numbers were created on a whim awhile back, I didn't put much time, effort, or thought into it.

And if you read my post, the only numbers I posted was for my navy, I refrained from posting numbers for infantry and and planes alike, as I was unsure and uncomfortable with the unrealistic possibility of me having at least 27 million soldiers, just look at my military page, I said it to TO. Navy was were there was the most importance, and aside for taking a couple more frigates then I should have and 6 more amphibious assault ships than I should have, everything was within the lines. So, there's really no need to complain. The only problem with what I posted and my actually numbers on my military sheet was that I added a "0" to the end of 150 destroyers.

And these are simply numbers, they shouldn't have that big of an impact on the war. RP should have the biggest impact, and it does. Frankly, I'm a terrible RPer, and I have little experience. So anyone would have no problem defeating me in a war, for they can craft a story much better than I can. Their ability to write will always outreached whatever numbers I put down. Numbers simply aren't that important. The point of the RP is the story, as I've been told many times and it is something I have just realized.


And for the most part, these were approved. Telosan gave me the OK to attack a while back, I purposely left a path for retreat, as he planned on retreating after taking casualties.

Lans also gave me the OK. I asked him last night on facebook, "Is it good if I start the invasion? Maybe get a small foothold?" And he said yes.

Also, you practically gave me the OK as well.
Quote:
 
Feel free to pour in what troops you want to. Just remember, this is a war to conquer Ireland, not destroy it. Otto won't win the hearts and minds by killing civilians, and he won't keep power long if Ireland doesn't have infrastructure.
You told me to feel free to do so, and I did.


This is my first real war, so yes, I might have done some stuff wrong. Maybe I took too much land or etc. I was in a rush to get my place in the war going, and I wrote it up pretty fast. If anything, it was a slight misunderstanding on our parts. I wanted to get something done.



And please, from now on, if you have a problem, discuss it with me over a PM or instant messaging, so we can save the rest of the community from have to shift through another bitchfest. ^^ Thank You!

If you still have anything else to discuss with me, please PM me, for the sake of everyone else.
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Kasnyia
Apr 15 2010, 07:56 AM
If the Church doesn't know, then playing up to the Teutons and whoever is not the same as playing up to the Church. The Popes of our world have more power than in RL, so its up to them ultimately who is considered Genesian/Colognian/whatever or not. And whatever the Genesian Pope knows, the bank knows.

Besides, with the bank assisting Otto, they naturally keep an eye on his allies, which include the Teutons.
Kas, I've only told the HCC and the TO, and I'm sure they haven't gone around blabbing to their entire church that I'm Genesian. Plus, I never told Otto that I'm Genesian. Your bank has no knowledge of me doing so. I have not declared that I'm a Genesian country, nor have I talked to the Pope, let alone the Church or Leb.

Stopping making your Bank seem omnipotent. You can't just assume the Church knows, and therefore you know.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Quote:
 
And for the most part, these were approved. Telosan gave me the OK to attack a while back, I purposely left a path for retreat, as he planned on retreating after taking casualties.
I did?

I guess so. I only talked about the part pertaining to my forces, not anything about Ireland.

Also I'd like to point out that this is precisely why I don't specify numbers.
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Deleted User
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Telosan
Apr 15 2010, 06:31 PM
Quote:
 
And for the most part, these were approved. Telosan gave me the OK to attack a while back, I purposely left a path for retreat, as he planned on retreating after taking casualties.
I did?

I guess so. I only talked about the part pertaining to my forces, not anything about Ireland.

Also I'd like to point out that this is precisely why I don't specify numbers.
Yes, you told me that I could attack as long as you were able to retreat, because you didn't want your fleet destroyed. I haven't done anything to your forces in Ireland though.

And I've come to realize that as well. I think I might strip my military page.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
I have no forces in Ireland yet. I'm planning on showing up later, though.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
The bank is about as close to omnipotence as a mortal organization can be with regards to war, banking or the Genesian Church. Now fluffy bunny rabbits, you got me stumped.... :P
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Sedulius
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Field Marshal
Atticus
 
Blah blah blah.

I really don't care ^^ I don't give a shit about your ethics.


Well that was disrespectful.

Atticus
 

If there is a problem with my numbers, I'll change it. My bad. No need to fuss about it. Those numbers were created on a whim awhile back, I didn't put much time, effort, or thought into it.

And if you read my post, the only numbers I posted was for my navy, I refrained from posting numbers for infantry and and planes alike, as I was unsure and uncomfortable with the unrealistic possibility of me having at least 27 million soldiers, just look at my military page, I said it to TO. Navy was were there was the most importance, and aside for taking a couple more frigates then I should have and 6 more amphibious assault ships than I should have, everything was within the lines. So, there's really no need to complain. The only problem with what I posted and my actually numbers on my military sheet was that I added a "0" to the end of 150 destroyers.

And these are simply numbers, they shouldn't have that big of an impact on the war. RP should have the biggest impact, and it does. Frankly, I'm a terrible RPer, and I have little experience. So anyone would have no problem defeating me in a war, for they can craft a story much better than I can. Their ability to write will always outreached whatever numbers I put down. Numbers simply aren't that important. The point of the RP is the story, as I've been told many times and it is something I have just realized.


There's every need to complain about the numbers, because it influences the outcome of the war. You have to remember, I'm the one guiding all of this, so I have to take in every factor to give not only a realistic outcome, but one satisfying to everyone involved. Rules are rules, Atticus. You can't just make up numbers. RP is far more important, but a player's ability to RP is not what determines the outcome of the war.

Please, Atticus, please, read the rules. It's obvious you don't know them.

Atticus
 
And for the most part, these were approved. Telosan gave me the OK to attack a while back, I purposely left a path for retreat, as he planned on retreating after taking casualties.

Lans also gave me the OK. I asked him last night on facebook, "Is it good if I start the invasion? Maybe get a small foothold?" And he said yes.


When it comes to attacking their forces, they are the final authority. When it comes to attacking my nation and my forces, I am the final authority. Other players don't speak for me.

Atticus
 

Also, you practically gave me the OK as well.
Quote:
 
Feel free to pour in what troops you want to. Just remember, this is a war to conquer Ireland, not destroy it. Otto won't win the hearts and minds by killing civilians, and he won't keep power long if Ireland doesn't have infrastructure.
You told me to feel free to do so, and I did.


Actually, it was:

Sedulius
 
Thanks. The land invasion will be soon. Feel free to pour in what troops you want to. Just remember, this is a war to conquer Ireland, not destroy it. Otto won't win the hearts and minds by killing civilians, and he won't keep power long if Ireland doesn't have infrastructure.


Don't take things out of context. I gave you permission to invade when the land invasion happened, not before then.

Atticus
 
This is my first real war, so yes, I might have done some stuff wrong. Maybe I took too much land or etc. I was in a rush to get my place in the war going, and I wrote it up pretty fast. If anything, it was a slight misunderstanding on our parts. I wanted to get something done.


This isn't about getting things done, this is about writing a story. Take your time.

Atticus
 
And please, from now on, if you have a problem, discuss it with me over a PM or instant messaging, so we can save the rest of the community from have to shift through another bitchfest. ^^ Thank You!

If you still have anything else to discuss with me, please PM me, for the sake of everyone else.


Actually, the reason I put this out in the open is because of the high probability that you wouldn't cooperate, in which case I was correct. This shows the other players involved why the post is incorrect, and clears up possible confusion, thus players will not post in response to a flawed post.

If you aren't willing to cooperate, then you will be banned from the war. I don't want to kick you out, but if you aren't going to play by the forum rules, then I need to kick you out if I want this war to continue by the book.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
It wouldn't be realistic for Wales to remain silent while Ireland is weak.

You guys need to stop arguing all the time. Atticus, you are rather disrespectful and antagonizing, but Sed, you take things a bit too personally. Both of you need to back off. It's a game with absolutely no real life consequences, cool it.

Atticus, this is Sed's war, so he can regulate it as he wants. If you have a civil war, you can say what goes and what doesn't go.

EDIT: For reference:

War Rules


EDIT (Again): Hmm, reading over the rules and the military creation guide, I noticed it was different from when I first read it. Where is the part that used to refer to quality, such as x2 or x3? I figured I could at least do that part, rather than the numbers of the ships, to convey Venice's focus in the navy rather than air or land.
Edited by Telosan, Apr 15 2010, 09:17 PM.
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Sedulius
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Field Marshal
note that i'm on my phone for this post. :p telosan, you are correct in that it would not be realistic for wales not to attack while ireland what weak, but that's exactly it. I want to keep atticus in the war because his participation will make it an overall better story and experience. But he can't just go around making haphazard posts that undercut what the other players have been coordinating. I really just want him to abide by the rules. If he is willing to coordinate with me and edit his post, then i have no problem. But if he's just going to blatantly disregard the rules, then he's out.
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Deleted User
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All you needed to do was PM me and I would cooperate. There was no high probability I wouldn't cooperate. That makes no sense, if you had PMed me, and I didn't cooperate, then what? You'd just ban me, that's simple. There was no high probability. I am fully willing to cooperate.

And I understand, I messed up regarding the land invasion of Ireland and a couple numbers for the ships. After I fix that, its all good. I fucked up. I'll change it





And I will continue to remain antagonizing as long as you remain insensitive and hostile. There was no need for such a long post criticizing my every move. All that was needed was a few sentences: "Oh hey, you did your numbers wrong for the battleships and cruisers, please fix them" or "Hey, I never gave you permission, please edit that part out." If you continue to assume that I'm highly likely to not cooperate, then I'll continue to be antagonizing. I'll have respect for you when you show respect for me. It would also be helpful if you let me in on some of these "plans" you and the others are working on. Otherwise, I'm left out in the cold wondering what to do.

If you remain civil and friendly, I promise to do the same.

But, I would like to apologize for what I said. I was in the wrong, and you were in the absolute right. I take back everything I said.


Anyways, I refuse to argue with you any longer. The people of this forum do not appreciate this bitchfest, and I do not wish for them to have it. I do not want to fight here. Please, pm me if you have any further discussions.


EDIT: Everything is now fixed.
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Sedulius
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Sorry. I've been under immense amounts of stress lately. I'll... cool down. I talked to yum-yum.

I'm buzzed right now, so I'm sleeping.
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Telosan
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Who/what is "yum-yum"?

Waiting for NRE to respond with the HCC before continuing with that.
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