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OOC: Imperator Scottorum; Great Irish Civil War
Topic Started: Apr 4 2010, 04:57 PM (7,368 Views)
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Telosan
Jun 15 2010, 01:50 PM
Venice is hoping for a democratic-monarchist hybrid Ireland with William at its head. Since William was already leading towards democracy, but showing no signs of abolishing his office as king, this means that Venice just wants an Ireland led by William O'Siadhail.

EDIT: Nice, Atticus. Wasn't expecting that. What will happen with the mercs?

How would I be able to get out of this without my fleet actually surrendering? I'd like my navy to maintain a clean record.

EDIT 2: Venetian forces are completely gone from the British Isles, with the exception of the Knights of Saint Mark, who's presence is not known to anyone but the Knights of Saint Patrick. I'll get to them in my next post, once I figure out who the leader of the Knights is and which castle I'm attacking.
Try and slip out to the east. As for the mercs, Draxis was supposed to take them up.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
You going south from your position in the Irish Sea: http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7644/gifje.gif

Green: My aircraft
Dark Blue: My ships
Blue: Welsh Ships, and allies
Red: Your ships, and allies
Purple: Rome

Going south options: Surrender, or heavy losses.

If you go another way, please give me a moment before you RP your arrival in Venice, as I am trying to decimate your navy as best as possible as per my nation's goals. We want to end you as a threat in our zone permanently.

Disclaimer: Not saying I wouldn't suffer losses as well, simply that if you are in full retreat that distance we will be damaging you, and if you fight your way through, we will be damaging you. The best way to preserve your naval strength is a surrender.

In addition, I have no idea where Sperry or Tou are in all this.


Edited by Union, Jun 15 2010, 07:16 PM.
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Hastine
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Universi enim hic sumus.
 *  *  *  *  *  *
Ok. What the hell. Too long, didn't fucking read. I'm too busy trying to pass high school here, so my activity has been extremely low.

Atticus, are you and Venice actually having talks on a ceasefire like he told me a couple of days ago?

Union: It is most likely that we'll end up in some kind of war. You know, because I want my land back. But there arn't very many other reasons why I want to fight you besides that. So let's work things out by PM, so we can have a balanced consensus between us.
Edited by Hastine, Jun 15 2010, 07:18 PM.
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Telosan
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Union
Jun 15 2010, 07:09 PM
You going south from your position in the Irish Sea: http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7644/gifje.gif

Green: My aircraft
Dark Blue: My ships
Blue: Welsh Ships, and allies
Red: Your ships, and allies
Purple: Rome

Going south options: Surrender, or heavy losses.

If you go another way, please give me a moment before you RP your arrival in Venice, as I am trying to decimate your navy as best as possible as per my nation's goals. We want to end you as a threat in our zone permanently.

Damnit, Huesca, that's so cool. You have to teach me how to do that.

Okay, here. I'll revise my post to be more specific as to their movements and take off the part about arriving at their destination. My ships will sail south from the Irish Sea, running into the Union fleet along the way. Your aircraft should have to go refuel and rearm, so I'm safe from them for a while. So long as they're being pursued, they'll sail in a zigzag pattern so the most of their guns can hit the trailing Union ships at a time. When they near Galicia, they'll stay as clear of the blockade as they can, but try to position the territory between the fleet and the Union airbases. Land based antiaircraft fire as well as a few planes will try to take a few down as they head out to the Venetian fleet. Once past that, the Union aircraft have to pass over Roman lands and I doubt they'd take kindly to it. For the remainder of the trip from Gibraltar to Valencia (they aren't going to Venice) you'll have to deal with Roman ships and aircraft as well, because I'm sure that constitutes a violation of airspace and Roman waters. I'll have to check with RD, though.

I don't want a surrender, I want a retreat and the potential to return to the fighting. Then the Venetian naval record is safe. They won't be returning to the Isles for the remainder of the war, though they might attempt to break the Union blockade at one point or another.

EDIT: Vesp, there was a ceasefire, but the Welsh violated the agreement and fired under a flag of truce, hence the extreme damage and sudden need to leave the Isles. This was not agreed upon ahead of time, but I'm willing to let it go and just try to save my fleet.
Edited by Telosan, Jun 15 2010, 07:23 PM.
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Hesperia
Jun 15 2010, 07:16 PM
Ok. What the hell. Too long, didn't fucking read. I'm too busy trying to pass high school here, so my activity has been extremely low.

Atticus, are you and Venice actually having talks on a ceasefire like he told me a couple of days ago?

Union: It is most likely that we'll end up in some kind of war. You know, because I want my land back. But there arn't very many other reasons why I want to fight you besides that. So let's work things out by PM, so we can have a balanced consensus between us.
No, we had never agreed to a ceasefire.
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Telosan
Jun 15 2010, 07:21 PM
Union
Jun 15 2010, 07:09 PM
You going south from your position in the Irish Sea: http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7644/gifje.gif

Green: My aircraft
Dark Blue: My ships
Blue: Welsh Ships, and allies
Red: Your ships, and allies
Purple: Rome

Going south options: Surrender, or heavy losses.

If you go another way, please give me a moment before you RP your arrival in Venice, as I am trying to decimate your navy as best as possible as per my nation's goals. We want to end you as a threat in our zone permanently.

Damnit, Huesca, that's so cool. You have to teach me how to do that.

Okay, here. I'll revise my post to be more specific as to their movements and take off the part about arriving at their destination. My ships will sail south from the Irish Sea, running into the Union fleet along the way. Your aircraft should have to go refuel and rearm, so I'm safe from them for a while. So long as they're being pursued, they'll sail in a zigzag pattern so the most of their guns can hit the trailing Union ships at a time. When they near Galicia, they'll stay as clear of the blockade as they can, but try to position the territory between the fleet and the Union airbases. Land based antiaircraft fire as well as a few planes will try to take a few down as they head out to the Venetian fleet. Once past that, the Union aircraft have to pass over Roman lands and I doubt they'd take kindly to it. For the remainder of the trip from Gibraltar to Valencia (they aren't going to Venice) you'll have to deal with Roman ships and aircraft as well, because I'm sure that constitutes a violation of airspace and Roman waters. I'll have to check with RD, though.

I don't want a surrender, I want a retreat and the potential to return to the fighting. Then the Venetian naval record is safe. They won't be returning to the Isles for the remainder of the war, though they might attempt to break the Union blockade at one point or another.

EDIT: Vesp, there was a ceasefire, but the Welsh violated the agreement and fired under a flag of truce, hence the extreme damage and sudden need to leave the Isles. This was not agreed upon ahead of time, but I'm willing to let it go and just try to save my fleet.
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Though we wont necessarily have a ceasefire, we'll only promise not to engage the mercs.
I never agreed to the ceasefire, even in IC. You just assumed it, even though I stated several times in pm's.
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Telosan
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Huesca, I only just now read your edit. Would the Union be willing to accept a Venetian parley?
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Union
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I can give you a potential return to combat. Note, I would not follow you through Gibraltar. My aircraft would begin bombing Valencia proper though, if you took refuge there, though again avoid naval installations.

If you do escape, however, I would like to RPed that you did so with about a third of your fleet being damaged extensively - enough so that they're out of the war, period. A few sunken ships as well. You can later try to strike against the blockade, and even achieve limited success, however I would eventually like to reestablish the blockade, and take out an additional 20% or so of any fleet involved in that action. This would force Venice to stay in the Medi for a long time after the war, which is what you said you wanted anyway.

EDIT: Yes, we can accept a parlay. Your ships would be towed to Galicia, along with ours. We would occupy your naval harbors, and depopulate your ships, but otherwise leave them in perfect condition and your men alive. We would station guards on your ships, and likely examine your naval technology during that time. It's not fair, I admit, but its what would be offered. You can RP a rejection or acceptance. If you accept, we'd also cease all bombings and all other activity against you in Galicia.
Edited by Union, Jun 15 2010, 07:34 PM.
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Telosan
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Union
Jun 15 2010, 07:30 PM
I can give you a potential return to combat. Note, I would not follow you through Gibraltar. My aircraft would begin bombing Valencia proper though, if you took refuge there, though again avoid naval installations.

If you do escape, however, I would like to RPed that you did so with about a third of your fleet being damaged extensively - enough so that they're out of the war, period. A few sunken ships as well. You can later try to strike against the blockade, and even achieve limited success, however I would eventually like to reestablish the blockade, and take out an additional 20% or so of any fleet involved in that action. This would force Venice to stay in the Medi for a long time after the war, which is what you said you wanted anyway.

EDIT: Yes, we can accept a parlay. Your ships would be towed to Galicia, along with ours. We would occupy your naval harbors, and depopulate your ships, but otherwise leave them in perfect condition and your men alive. We would station guards on your ships, and likely examine your naval technology during that time. It's not fair, I admit, but its what would be offered. You can RP a rejection or acceptance.
How is that different from a surrender?

Well I can't even try to parley with the Welsh. They'd probably stuff Dandolo in a cannon and launch him in the general direction of Venice.

I'll go with the retreat option. Returning to fight off the blockade is still undetermined. Editing post.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
It wouldn't be officially a surrender. It would officially be a truce/ceasefire under parley, with those as the conditions for the truce. Sometimes, what something is de jure is more important than what it is de facto.

North Korea can claim it never surrendered, after all! :lol:
Edited by Union, Jun 15 2010, 07:39 PM.
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Telosan
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Edited. You can take it from Gibraltar to Valencia. I'll post casualties and such at the conclusion of the chase.

Btw, Lans and Sed, this doesn't mean the Venetian fleet can't return to try and get William away from Ireland and to safety. I keep bringing it up because I think it'd be an awesome subplot and William seems too key a character to die off now.
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Union
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That would be an interesting way to end the war, as well. TO agrees to withdraw in exchange for William going into exile. He could even return at some later date.

Just thinking.
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Rhadamanthus
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This all goes too fast for me to keep up with.
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Menhad
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Union
Jun 15 2010, 07:48 PM
That would be an interesting way to end the war, as well. TO agrees to withdraw in exchange for William going into exile. He could even return at some later date.

Just thinking.
Meh it would work, at least for me.

Oh and if Telo can do this,
Telosan
War of the Damned
The use of Medieval weapons was shocking, very few Venetians in this particular force were trained for melee combat outside of basic training. However, they were capable of gunning down many of the Knights before they could bring their weapons to bear. It was in close quarters, around corners and in buildings, that the Knights inflicted the most casualties.

I get something similar. (I also said when the Knight where out of bullets, only then did they use melee weapons)

EDIT: Atticus, it is his RP, so he chooses the endgame. Although I will admit I was misled by the whole "Open ended thing", that why I put a large amount of forces in this fight. I thought if I committed enough I would see a Genesian Ireland, but what ever, it not like I have enough enemies :rolleyes:
Edited by Menhad, Jun 16 2010, 01:04 AM.
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Telosan
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So you want me to loose the most amount of knights while closing the distance and then gaining an advantage in melee? I can go with that. I'll only be saying casualties, not necessarily deaths.

Att, I liked the part with the admiral surviving. I'm going to assume he hates Dandolo more than whatever serves as the druidic satan now, right?
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Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:06 PM
So you want me to loose the most amount of knights while closing the distance and then gaining an advantage in melee? I can go with that. I'll only be saying casualties, not necessarily deaths.

Att, I liked the part with the admiral surviving. I'm going to assume he hates Dandolo more than whatever serves as the druidic satan now, right?
Yeah, I'm going to keep him around. After I'm gone, I think I'm going to establish a terrorist organization based on old Celtic paganism. Hopefully we can get Dandolo involved.
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Telosan
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Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:24 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:06 PM
So you want me to loose the most amount of knights while closing the distance and then gaining an advantage in melee? I can go with that. I'll only be saying casualties, not necessarily deaths.

Att, I liked the part with the admiral surviving. I'm going to assume he hates Dandolo more than whatever serves as the druidic satan now, right?
Yeah, I'm going to keep him around. After I'm gone, I think I'm going to establish a terrorist organization based on old Celtic paganism. Hopefully we can get Dandolo involved.
Involved how? Like maybe have him head up an anti-terrorist fleet that patrols the area?
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Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:36 PM
Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:24 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:06 PM
So you want me to loose the most amount of knights while closing the distance and then gaining an advantage in melee? I can go with that. I'll only be saying casualties, not necessarily deaths.

Att, I liked the part with the admiral surviving. I'm going to assume he hates Dandolo more than whatever serves as the druidic satan now, right?
Yeah, I'm going to keep him around. After I'm gone, I think I'm going to establish a terrorist organization based on old Celtic paganism. Hopefully we can get Dandolo involved.
Involved how? Like maybe have him head up an anti-terrorist fleet that patrols the area?
Well the admiral has a personal vendetta against him. So wherever he goes, he could possibly be followed/watched by his men, slowly plotting his death.
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Telosan
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Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:39 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:36 PM
Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:24 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:06 PM
So you want me to loose the most amount of knights while closing the distance and then gaining an advantage in melee? I can go with that. I'll only be saying casualties, not necessarily deaths.

Att, I liked the part with the admiral surviving. I'm going to assume he hates Dandolo more than whatever serves as the druidic satan now, right?
Yeah, I'm going to keep him around. After I'm gone, I think I'm going to establish a terrorist organization based on old Celtic paganism. Hopefully we can get Dandolo involved.
Involved how? Like maybe have him head up an anti-terrorist fleet that patrols the area?
Well the admiral has a personal vendetta against him. So wherever he goes, he could possibly be followed/watched by his men, slowly plotting his death.
I intend Dandolo to live a long time. He's actually one of the possible candidates for the dogeship, provided he outlives Contarini.
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Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 09:41 PM
Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:39 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:36 PM
Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:24 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:06 PM
So you want me to loose the most amount of knights while closing the distance and then gaining an advantage in melee? I can go with that. I'll only be saying casualties, not necessarily deaths.

Att, I liked the part with the admiral surviving. I'm going to assume he hates Dandolo more than whatever serves as the druidic satan now, right?
Yeah, I'm going to keep him around. After I'm gone, I think I'm going to establish a terrorist organization based on old Celtic paganism. Hopefully we can get Dandolo involved.
Involved how? Like maybe have him head up an anti-terrorist fleet that patrols the area?
Well the admiral has a personal vendetta against him. So wherever he goes, he could possibly be followed/watched by his men, slowly plotting his death.
I intend Dandolo to live a long time. He's actually one of the possible candidates for the dogeship, provided he outlives Contarini.
He doesn't have to die.

EDIT: Also Telo, I never lied about the ceasefire. I never made in agreement in the first place. You just assumed I did. I specifically said I was not going to have a ceasefire.
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Draxis
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I am doing a take home final until Friday at noon, I'll try to get a post in as the Merc fleet sometime before then. It may be short though given the amount of work I have to do.
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Telosan
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Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 09:53 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 09:41 PM
Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:39 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:36 PM
Atticus
Jun 16 2010, 02:24 PM
Telosan
Jun 16 2010, 02:06 PM
So you want me to loose the most amount of knights while closing the distance and then gaining an advantage in melee? I can go with that. I'll only be saying casualties, not necessarily deaths.

Att, I liked the part with the admiral surviving. I'm going to assume he hates Dandolo more than whatever serves as the druidic satan now, right?
Yeah, I'm going to keep him around. After I'm gone, I think I'm going to establish a terrorist organization based on old Celtic paganism. Hopefully we can get Dandolo involved.
Involved how? Like maybe have him head up an anti-terrorist fleet that patrols the area?
Well the admiral has a personal vendetta against him. So wherever he goes, he could possibly be followed/watched by his men, slowly plotting his death.
I intend Dandolo to live a long time. He's actually one of the possible candidates for the dogeship, provided he outlives Contarini.
He doesn't have to die.

EDIT: Also Telo, I never lied about the ceasefire. I never made in agreement in the first place. You just assumed I did. I specifically said I was not going to have a ceasefire.
One's opinion and perspective of a certain event isn't necessarily the truth. Since Dandolo thought there was a ceasefire and you attacked, the people under him thought the same, with the words traveling all around Venice until Dandolo's opinion/perspective became Venice's opinion/perspective because no other officer was present at the time of the agreement and Dandolo holds particular prestige. He's not lying, just telling the truth as he perceives it. The Welsh don't have a very high level of honor in the Venetians' eyes to start with, so this is easily believable.
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Union
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Pfft. Honor and Venetians are incompatible! :lol:

When it comes to breaking agreements for personal gain, your state has no ground to stand on! :P
Edited by Union, Jun 17 2010, 02:02 PM.
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Toussaint
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Telosan
Jun 17 2010, 01:51 PM
The Welsh don't have a very high level of honor in the Venetians' eyes to start with, so this is easily believable.
Lolz @ Venice talking about honor.
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Toussaint
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Also, Lans, how would English engineers get to Wight with a humongous British fleet still stationed there?
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