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OOC: Imperator Scottorum; Great Irish Civil War
Topic Started: Apr 4 2010, 04:57 PM (7,371 Views)
Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

OOC: Ok, I told Telo I would aid him if Venice was attacked. If you are not actually attacking him I don't need to intervene; but I think I will need to state an official position and clarify the empire's positions on the situation IC, in order to not look weak.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
OOC: I do intend to conduct missile strikes against airfields and naval bases on Galicia, in order to limit his capacity to operate in the British Isles, as disclosed in my PM. This is the scope of my attack, however, and I will not target cities, or land troops unless Venice bombs my territory, or a ground invasion occurs.
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Aelius
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Norman Warlord
I'm sick of this war, and being pushed around by everyone IC.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Lans, I am willing to work with everyone and anyone OOCly to make IC things work. I've proven as much in my history on this forum. Please do not believe that I am trying to pick on you. Had I had time at the start of this RP, I would have been involved from the beginning, and I realize this is a sudden and drastic alteration of the situation, but it is what the Union would logically do.

:)
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Rhadamanthus
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Union
Jun 11 2010, 10:50 AM
OOC: I do intend to conduct missile strikes against airfields and naval bases on Galicia, in order to limit his capacity to operate in the British Isles, as disclosed in my PM. This is the scope of my attack, however, and I will not target cities, or land troops unless Venice bombs my territory, or a ground invasion occurs.
OOC: As per my treaty, I have use of Venetian naval bases and ports; I originally secured that clause specifically to use his Atlantic naval bases. So I have a legal interest in those bases.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
OOC: If you can guarantee that operations will not be conducted out of any base in which you operate that may harm the Union, we can agree to avoid striking those bases. In fact, if you can pressure Venice to withdraw its forces totally, the entire conflict can be diffused very quickly.

We will even allow Roman military vessels through the blockade to guard the ports, if they wish it.

However, we will still strike airports/airfields, and SAM sites, in order to maintain the air restricted fly zone.
Edited by Union, Jun 11 2010, 11:00 AM.
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Aelius
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Norman Warlord
I know it's nothing personal. IC, being a relatively small nation compared to all the 8 billion+ nations basically makes it difficult to be considered an equal with the rest of the nations, though, and being strong-armed gets old after a while.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
You simply have to find a strong ally. That being said, I agree that using nationstate nation size as a barometer for strength is stupid, and have made numerous proposals in the past to try and alter these huge advantages. :P
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

OOC: Union, that sounds reasonable from what I can tell, but I'll let Telo comment on his position further before deciding what I am going to do, because I don't want him to feel like I'm just abandoning him. I have to admit, I haven't fully followed RP in recent months, so I don't understand all the interests implicated in this war.

Also, while previously, I've been fairly committed to our old NS-based system out of habit, I'm thinking that a new fairer system could be a good idea.
Edited by Rhadamanthus, Jun 11 2010, 11:09 AM.
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Menhad
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Lansdallius
Jun 11 2010, 10:59 AM
I know it's nothing personal. IC, being a relatively small nation compared to all the 8 billion+ nations basically makes it difficult to be considered an equal with the rest of the nations, though, and being strong-armed gets old after a while.
How do you think I felt? Sandwiched between Paradise and Scythirus. Who had a secret agreement to help each other(Which made a power-block that no one could defeat), and no matter what I did I was either antagonizing them, or they where antagonizing me.
Edited by Menhad, Jun 11 2010, 03:16 PM.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
OOC: I don't think you'd be abandoning him. He violated a treaty with another nation, and just like in the real world, there are consequences for doing so. :lol:
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
I was under the impression that Galicia would be attacked as a result of Venice publicly saying they were no longer working under the clauses of the treaty, so I contacted RD to find out if the Romans would assist if/when that attack happened. I have a longer standing treaty to assist Ireland and England, who are allies whereas the Union is not, so I had to contradict the treaty to go help them. A missile strike is still an attack, isn't it? Venice can't just sit by while missile after missile is lobbed at the Galician military installations. A blockade is a nuisance, but Venice will let it be until it becomes a major problem or makes further aggressive moves.

I also have to agree with Lans and Huesca about the NS account as a power meter. Because of this war and everyone comparing military budgets, I have taken my account off vacation mode so I can start answering issues to make Venice stronger after a year and a half of just logging in to keep it alive. Unfortunately, the testing ground for Huesca's power meter idea has lost interest since no one will respond anymore...
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Menhad
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I do believe there should be some form of a ceiling on military. But I also believe that different levels of military strength make for interesting RPs. I also do think that certain nations shouldn't be allowed to ally (ie "The Three).

But I do enjoy pushing my weight around after years of getting pushed around. :evil:
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Toussaint
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T.O.
Jun 11 2010, 03:16 PM
(ie "The Three).
Who? :unsure:
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Deleted User
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Boy, do I have a solution to all these problems.

Maybe they'd take it Union, just maybe.


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Menhad
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Toussaint
Jun 11 2010, 05:13 PM
T.O.
Jun 11 2010, 03:16 PM
(ie "The Three).
Who? :unsure:
It was Paradise, Scythirus and RD's old Rome
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Toussaint
Jun 11 2010, 05:13 PM
T.O.
Jun 11 2010, 03:16 PM
(ie "The Three).
Who? :unsure:
As Menhad said, but here is the link: http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/226054/1/

Of course, it would be considered defunct now.
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Aelius
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Norman Warlord
Me
earlier in thread
"Send a couple of battalions of armor after them. Make them think blitzkrieg. Bomb Cardiff, hard. Leave a majority of our men at the borders, but have a strike force ready to land at Cardiff as soon as they attack again, take the fight to them while they're occupied with us. Go see what the Venetians are planning, too."


Att, I left most of my men on the borders. Also, I don't know if you can just dictate that you're slaughtering men left and right, that doesn't give Sed and me a whole lot of leeway to work with in either case. Granted, some POWs are reasonable, as is pushing a decent way into England, but you've got to keep it within reason and allow players to respond to attacks, you can't dictate exactly what happens to other players.
Edited by Aelius, Jun 11 2010, 09:29 PM.
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Menhad
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Lansdallius
Jun 11 2010, 09:06 PM
Me
earlier in thread
"Send a couple of battalions of armor after them. Make them think blitzkrieg. Bomb Cardiff, hard. Leave a majority of our men at the borders, but have a strike force ready to land at Cardiff as soon as they attack again, take the fight to them while they're occupied with us. Go see what the Venetians are planning, too."


Att, I left most of my men on the borders. Also, I don't know if you can just dictate that you're slaughtering men left and right, that doesn't give Sed and me a whole lot of leeway to work with in either case. Granted, some POWs are reasonable, as is pushing a decent way into England, but you've got to keep it within reason and allow players to respond to attacks, you can't dictate exactly what happens to other players.
Indeed Att, it is best to pm players of you intentions before acting.

My general rule is that if your taking the loss, you should rp it. If they are taking a loss, then they should rp. If you don't think the other player who posted lost enough then talk to them. (This was my major problem with Al, when he was Rping Paradise. He just said I can rape you and didn't ask me at all.)
Edited by Menhad, Jun 11 2010, 10:02 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Menhad is right; the general guideline is that you don't RP other's losses. I didn't see what you guys are discussing though, so I'm just stating generally.
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Aelius
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Norman Warlord
T.O.
Jun 11 2010, 09:59 PM
My general rule is that if your taking the loss, you should rp it. If they are taking a loss, then they should rp. If you don't think the other player who posted lost enough then talk to them. (This was my major problem with Al, when he was Rping Paradise. He just said I can rape you and didn't ask me at all.)
This, pretty much. I gave Att permission to strike back and push my forces out of Wales and back into England, and Sed gave him permission to take Dublin, though.
Edited by Aelius, Jun 11 2010, 10:19 PM.
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Lansdallius
Jun 11 2010, 10:17 PM
T.O.
Jun 11 2010, 09:59 PM
My general rule is that if your taking the loss, you should rp it. If they are taking a loss, then they should rp. If you don't think the other player who posted lost enough then talk to them. (This was my major problem with Al, when he was Rping Paradise. He just said I can rape you and didn't ask me at all.)
This, pretty much. I gave Att permission to strike back and push my forces out of Wales and back into England, and Sed gave him permission to take Dublin, though.
You did give me the go ahead to proceed to the line at which we were to have a stalemate though. But, all that slaughtering was a little bit dramatic, that's all. Yeah, I did get a little carried away though.

Also, I misread your post. Don't worry, I'm not trying to dictate your actions. I was just misinformed. :P I haven't read your post in quite a while, and I swear that you had thrown all your soldiers into Wales. My bad.

And I just acting on what Sed told me to do. Plus with the relative lack of activity concerning Sed, I'd thought that if I advanced it a bit further, something or somebody would react ICly and we could finish this up.

I'll change it all though.
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Sedulius
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Field Marshal
THIS. IS. DUBLIN!

Hat.

Um... well, I have a lot of reading to do.

Last thing I remember was Atticus posting a map and thinking in my head it was inaccurate. The Teutonic invasion would not have happened in Inishowen where they would be shelled to death by the Grianan Ailigh. Indeed, at this point they would either be avoiding the Grianan in Inishowen or besieging it with high casualties. However, they would have advanced into Ulster much further than that map had shown when it was posted (I mean, the Teutons kind of steamrolled with no significant force to oppose them until the outer counties of Ulster), being able to support the Welsh attack at Dublin.

Think of Ulster as mostly overtaken by the Teutons, except for Donegal and some other outer counties, and the rest of Ireland under the control of William. With the Welsh invasion, the Welsh would control Dublin and the surrounding county, pushing onwards into Meath and Leinster.

Hope that clears up how I was thinking of the situation as going. This is a two sided war at this point rather than a civil war, and though I do have new plans for Ireland as a whole, that does mean everyone else gets more say than they have had. But just remember that even large numbers of troops and knights can be very bogged down by guerrilla and urban warfare.

Anyways, I need to do the reading over these topics to get up to speed. This war went its own way without me. If there are any disagreements with the above, post here. (There's simply too many people involved to handle the entirety of the war through PMs.)
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Menhad
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Telosan
Jun 10 2010, 02:57 PM
Menhad, if I have IC permission, the OSM will attempt to liberate the castle with the largest garrison of Irish knights. Please look over this page: http://serenisima.webs.com/theosm.htm The OSM are equipped with the high quality projectile proof armor originally manufactured by the Irish (or was is Syrians or something?) with a few cosmetic changes. The shield is covered with the same material that is used for the cockpit bubble of jets. The swords are made the old traditional way, but with more modern materials so that it's less likely to break on a hard hit. Higher ranking members of the Order may carry pistols, but usually don't use firearms, instead relying on their armor to let them close for melee.
While I have no problem with the action, I do have a problem with the armor.

I doubt your armor could survive a Ma-Duce (M2 Heavy Machine Gun, .50 cal round), or an armor piercing round, and even though it might survive a standard round, the kinetic energy would still cause internal damage. Broken Bones, internal bleeding, soft tissue damage, bruises, etc.

In short you would be torn up if you relied solely on the armor.
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Sedulius
Jun 13 2010, 01:26 PM
THIS. IS. DUBLIN!

Hat.

Um... well, I have a lot of reading to do.

Last thing I remember was Atticus posting a map and thinking in my head it was inaccurate. The Teutonic invasion would not have happened in Inishowen where they would be shelled to death by the Grianan Ailigh. Indeed, at this point they would either be avoiding the Grianan in Inishowen or besieging it with high casualties. However, they would have advanced into Ulster much further than that map had shown when it was posted (I mean, the Teutons kind of steamrolled with no significant force to oppose them until the outer counties of Ulster), being able to support the Welsh attack at Dublin.

Think of Ulster as mostly overtaken by the Teutons, except for Donegal and some other outer counties, and the rest of Ireland under the control of William. With the Welsh invasion, the Welsh would control Dublin and the surrounding county, pushing onwards into Meath and Leinster.

Hope that clears up how I was thinking of the situation as going. This is a two sided war at this point rather than a civil war, and though I do have new plans for Ireland as a whole, that does mean everyone else gets more say than they have had. But just remember that even large numbers of troops and knights can be very bogged down by guerrilla and urban warfare.

Anyways, I need to do the reading over these topics to get up to speed. This war went its own way without me. If there are any disagreements with the above, post here. (There's simply too many people involved to handle the entirety of the war through PMs.)
Thanks for the clarification. You guys never set an exact location in the posts, so I just guessed my way in. :P
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