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OOC: Imperator Scottorum; Great Irish Civil War
Topic Started: Apr 4 2010, 04:57 PM (7,376 Views)
Porcu
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"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."

Hey Att, I made a small reply to your earlier post about our aerial encounter. I don't know if you didn't see it, but I figured I'd let you know.
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Porcu
May 16 2010, 02:04 PM
Hey Att, I made a small reply to your earlier post about our aerial encounter. I don't know if you didn't see it, but I figured I'd let you know.
Yes, can you pm me? I need to know the details of what you want, and who wins or not. I wasn't sure of the outcome, and I wasn't comfortable with destroying large numbers of your planes, so I did not post anything for the time being. I'll do so though.
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Telosan
May 16 2010, 02:02 PM
Quote:
 
Captain Lloyd smiled at the reply. Years ago, he was part of a military exercise, called the Bunuel War Games. The Welsh were ultimately victorious, due to their speed and superiority, and defeated the Venetians rapidly. He would take great pleasure in destroying the Venetians.
The war games were never concluded, so neither of us can claim victory. Besides, you were 'fighting' the Falkland Confederation in those war games, not Venice.

Also, the Venetian fleet is right near Dublin with their backs to the eastern Irish coast, so a landing would have to go through "the largest Venetian fleet assembled in the past decade". I have a very large portion of my navy there and I've repeatedly stressed the superiority of the Venetian navy in regards to its other military branches, so no small engagement will just push them aside. I think that it's unlikely that any British Isle navy (save for Ireland) could match the Venetians since the Welsh, English, and British have to worry more about land and air than Venice does.

I don't mean to take this out on you, Atticus, but it just seems to me that the Venetian fleet isn't being viewed as the threat it should be by most in this war.
Fixed. And I remember Union declaring me the victor because I had at least taken part of the objective.


Telo, your country is hundreds of miles away; mine is only a couple away. I can rely on a steady stream of supplies and ships. You cannot. My country is larger than yours, and I have taken a hit in order to have a slightly larger navy. And no Telosan, currently you have more land then I do, so its is not a stress of mine to have a large army. Your navy has already been in an engagement, therefore it would be weakened and/or damaged. Also, I have had my Western fleet smack dab in the middle of the Irish Sea since the start. You would have logically ran into them if you did. Plus you are engaged with the Mercenary fleet, plus you made no indications you were anywhere near Dublin. You never even mentioned Dublin. And it is very unlikely you would have been able to send "the largest Venetian fleet assembled in the past decade" through a narrow pass without being hit by the Welsh, TO, or NH's Pirates.
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Telosan
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I have Wight exclusively as a military installation, so it would be sufficiently supplied, not to mention that Galicia is not all that far away.

I don't have a large navy because I have less bordering enemies. Most of those that are on my borders are allies and those that aren't are neutral.

The mercenary fleet was stated in Sed's post to be attacking the blockade around Dublin. So for the Venetians to attack the merc fleet, they would have to be near Dublin.

My fleet didn't have to go into the Irish Sea as a clump of metal; they could've been in a column formation to fit. Besides that, but the Welsh fleet was fighting the English-Sperian fleets and so could've been distracted. Plus, I would imagine you'd want to avoid the shore batteries unless you were actually attempting to hit that stretch of land in the near future. The WW2 era batteries in my area are capable of firing from my town to NYC, about 15 miles or so in a straight line. The closest together point of Ireland and Wales at the southern end of the Irish Sea is about 50 miles (measurements are from Google Maps, I measured on my computer screen, so they're not 100% accurate), so your ships could take up any of the 35 mile space there and be safe, and I could reasonably slip past. A good many ships can fit in a 15 mile wide space, even a 10 mile space if you want to safely account for water depth.

The TO is to the north. Menhad never said anything about even entering the Irish Sea at any point. The pirates, to my knowledge, were near Scotland. I haven't heard anything of them since the Faroe Islands.

EDIT: Lets just drop this, okay? There's bound to be arguments in a situation like this, where 8 or so countries are fighting in so small a space. Lets allow for more important scenarios to be debated rather than these smaller technicalities.
Edited by Telosan, May 16 2010, 02:52 PM.
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Kasnyia
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Tel-

The fleet doesn't want to fight for Otto because of lack of strategy. If you make a contract with the Bank, the bank will send the ships to side with Dandolo who I presume would have a strategy, thus helping morale for the mercenaries and providing profit for the bank.

Sed-

Bank wouldn't pay you back because you wouldn't know the bank seized said assets. You agreed for Otto to wager his assets for assistance, so you gotta pay the price for doing so. Don't be lame.

And even if the Genesians could win, the bank doesn't care since Otto is dead, which means that the bank has lost its client and thus wants immediate returns on its investment.
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Telosan
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Kasnyia
May 16 2010, 03:50 PM
The fleet doesn't want to fight for Otto because of lack of strategy. If you make a contract with the Bank, the bank will send the ships to side with Dandolo who I presume would have a strategy, thus helping morale for the mercenaries and providing profit for the bank.
Can I make this contract with the bank via the mercenary commander? You didn't want to send someone to the emissary because you didn't want the bank to give away its involvement. If the merc leader acted as an intermediary, Dandolo could hire out the fleet and take responsibility for Otto's debt without even having to know who was behind it all, just that that person/company has considerable influence and funds to provide all of this.
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Kasnyia
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Sounds good. Make the post.
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Kasnyia
May 16 2010, 03:50 PM
Tel-

The fleet doesn't want to fight for Otto because of lack of strategy. If you make a contract with the Bank, the bank will send the ships to side with Dandolo who I presume would have a strategy, thus helping morale for the mercenaries and providing profit for the bank.

Sed-

Bank wouldn't pay you back because you wouldn't know the bank seized said assets. You agreed for Otto to wager his assets for assistance, so you gotta pay the price for doing so. Don't be lame.

And even if the Genesians could win, the bank doesn't care since Otto is dead, which means that the bank has lost its client and thus wants immediate returns on its investment.
I already contacted your fleet about this. We were willing to pay all of the debts and dues.
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Kasnyia
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In that case, I'll split the fleet to fight for both sides. Again, the bank doesn't care so long as it makes a profit or gains something from the war. Bear in mind however that the Bank provided for more than just the mercenary fleet to Otto, so debts and whatnot owed regarding anything other than the mercenary fleet operations will still be owed by Sed.
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Toussaint
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Telosan
May 16 2010, 02:02 PM
I think that it's unlikely that any British Isle navy (save for Ireland) could match the Venetians since the Welsh, English, and British have to worry more about land and air than Venice does.
Telo-
My nation has nearly 3 times your population. 77% of my budget is dedicated to defense. My economy is a few notches above yours. My country is bordered by two substantially smaller nations- as such, most of our energy is dedicated to the navy. I'm directly adjacent to the Irish Sea. Your troops have to travel several hundred miles. Yes, Britain is closer to the Irish Sea than Wight is.

I am not fighting this war on the ground. At all. The Royal Army is entirely within British territory.

Basically, Telo, the Royal Navy could smash your fleets into little tiny bits in a one on one. Given these circumstances, and the fact that the Genesian Allies are a pretty close pound-for-pound match, I have absolutely no idea where you would get this idea.
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Telosan
May 16 2010, 02:50 PM
I have Wight exclusively as a military installation, so it would be sufficiently supplied, not to mention that Galicia is not all that far away.

I don't have a large navy because I have less bordering enemies. Most of those that are on my borders are allies and those that aren't are neutral.

The mercenary fleet was stated in Sed's post to be attacking the blockade around Dublin. So for the Venetians to attack the merc fleet, they would have to be near Dublin.

My fleet didn't have to go into the Irish Sea as a clump of metal; they could've been in a column formation to fit. Besides that, but the Welsh fleet was fighting the English-Sperian fleets and so could've been distracted. Plus, I would imagine you'd want to avoid the shore batteries unless you were actually attempting to hit that stretch of land in the near future. The WW2 era batteries in my area are capable of firing from my town to NYC, about 15 miles or so in a straight line. The closest together point of Ireland and Wales at the southern end of the Irish Sea is about 50 miles (measurements are from Google Maps, I measured on my computer screen, so they're not 100% accurate), so your ships could take up any of the 35 mile space there and be safe, and I could reasonably slip past. A good many ships can fit in a 15 mile wide space, even a 10 mile space if you want to safely account for water depth.

The TO is to the north. Menhad never said anything about even entering the Irish Sea at any point. The pirates, to my knowledge, were near Scotland. I haven't heard anything of them since the Faroe Islands.

EDIT: Lets just drop this, okay? There's bound to be arguments in a situation like this, where 8 or so countries are fighting in so small a space. Lets allow for more important scenarios to be debated rather than these smaller technicalities.
No, I will not drop this. This "small technicality" will prevent me from landing much needed troops at Dublin. I refuse to edit my post.

Tell me exactly the place where Sed stated that the merc fleet was near Dublin, because its different here:
Quote:
 
King Otto mobilized the fleets acquired via the bank to assist in Genesian breakthrough of the blockade at Cork.
First of all, Otto's merc fleet is near Cork, not Dublin. So there's no reason for you to be up there at all.

Quote:
 

I have Wight exclusively as a military installation, so it would be sufficiently supplied, not to mention that Galicia is not all that far away.
Wright and Galicia is nowhere near supplied as Wales or Scotland, and besides, Wright is currently under siege.

Quote:
 
My fleet didn't have to go into the Irish Sea as a clump of metal; they could've been in a column formation to fit. Besides that, but the Welsh fleet was fighting the English-Sperian fleets and so could've been distracted. Plus, I would imagine you'd want to avoid the shore batteries unless you were actually attempting to hit that stretch of land in the near future. The WW2 era batteries in my area are capable of firing from my town to NYC, about 15 miles or so in a straight line. The closest together point of Ireland and Wales at the southern end of the Irish Sea is about 50 miles (measurements are from Google Maps, I measured on my computer screen, so they're not 100% accurate), so your ships could take up any of the 35 mile space there and be safe, and I could reasonably slip past. A good many ships can fit in a 15 mile wide space, even a 10 mile space if you want to safely account for water depth.
How could you reasonably slip past with only 15 miles of space. Any decent radar would have picked you up. Plus, a missile would easily hit any target within 50 miles with pinpoint accuracy. Furthermore, you have taken no notice of my Western fleet which is smack dab in the middle of the Irish sea, right next to Dublin. I have mentioned this numerous times, in both OOC and IC posts. However none of this matters, as there is no way you should have been up there, with Cork being down on the southern half of Ireland.

Quote:
 

The TO is to the north. Menhad never said anything about even entering the Irish Sea at any point. The pirates, to my knowledge, were near Scotland. I haven't heard anything of them since the Faroe Islands.
The pirates, if you read my posts, went down along with my Northern fleet to assist them. Plus NH had a few patrol the Irish coast.
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Telosan
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Kas, the Venetian and mercenaries are already next to each other and contact can be established much faster than with the mercs and the Welsh. Aside from that, Atticus didn't contact the mercs in his original post and that message was edited in, after you and I had already discussed Venice taking Otto's debts and employing the fleet. Atticus should not be allowed any of the merc fleet because the transmission did not exist until OOC events tipped him off that he should employ the fleet or else Venice would gain more forces.

Atticus, I'm not even going to respond because I already said I was dropping this. I'm not prolonging the argument.

Tou, your entire military cannot just become the navy. You still have to be maintaining an army, with a hostile nation on your southern border and a historically hostile one to the west and north, as well as an airforce, because of the presence of so many hostile aircraft in the area and their use in your carriers. Venice is not the only naval force here, either, so its unlikely a 1 on 1 battle would occur without Venice calling in allies as needed. I don't want to argue. The only reason I brought it up was because I felt that Venice's role in this war was being viewed as too insignificant to matter.
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Telosan
May 16 2010, 04:28 PM
Kas, the Venetian and mercenaries are already next to each other and contact can be established much faster than with the mercs and the Welsh. Aside from that, Atticus didn't contact the mercs in his original post and that message was edited in, after you and I had already discussed Venice taking Otto's debts and employing the fleet. Atticus should not be allowed any of the merc fleet because the transmission did not exist until OOC events tipped him off that he should employ the fleet or else Venice would gain more forces.

Atticus, I'm not even going to respond because I already said I was dropping this. I'm not prolonging the argument.

Tou, your entire military cannot just become the navy. You still have to be maintaining an army, with a hostile nation on your southern border and a historically hostile one to the west and north, as well as an airforce, because of the presence of so many hostile aircraft in the area and their use in your carriers. Venice is not the only naval force here, either, so its unlikely a 1 on 1 battle would occur without Venice calling in allies as needed. I don't want to argue. The only reason I brought it up was because I felt that Venice's role in this war was being viewed as too insignificant to matter.
You are ridiculous Telo, look at my edited post.
Quote:
 
Edited by Atticus, Today, 11:09 AM.
Kas posted that 44 minutes ago, and its 2:36 pacific time. Stop trying to undercut me. Besides, the mercs were already on Otto's side, so it would make sense that their trust goes to another member of that side.

Quote:
 
Atticus, I'm not even going to respond because I already said I was dropping this. I'm not prolonging the argument.
Fine, but I refuse to edit my post. Your IC an OOC posts do not follow. You claim you are in Dublin, but you made no note of that in any IC post. You claim you are fighting the mercs, but they are in Cork, nowhere near Dublin. Whether you like it or not, you have to fix your posts, or else I'm chasing a ghost here. If you can't coherently announce your positions, then how am I able to engage them?

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Toussaint
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Telosan
May 16 2010, 04:28 PM
Tou, your entire military cannot just become the navy. You still have to be maintaining an army, with a hostile nation on your southern border and a historically hostile one to the west and north, as well as an airforce, because of the presence of so many hostile aircraft in the area and their use in your carriers. Venice is not the only naval force here, either, so its unlikely a 1 on 1 battle would occur without Venice calling in allies as needed. I don't want to argue. The only reason I brought it up was because I felt that Venice's role in this war was being viewed as too insignificant to matter.
It wouldn't have to just 'become' a navy. However, the focus CAN and HAS been on the navy. Aircraft are largely incorporated into the navy- Britain doesn't have an air force, as it is part of the Navy. Besides, why would the air force operate from navy ships? Most of the time, RL navies own aircraft...

With both of the nations at my border being a fourth and a sixth of my size respectively, and having to focus on the defense of their own, my army really doesn't need to consume a lot of resources. Keep in mind, Venice also has to maintain an army/air force.

Regardless of how important you want to be, you can't go saying that Venice could take on any navy in the isles. Ireland is far from the dominant power here. Venice is far from the dominant power here.
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Unencrypted Message to the Mercenary Captain
 
I have accepted your ceasefire, but must inquire, where do you intend to go? If you have no other job offers open at this time, I, with the treasury of Venice at my back, would like to employ your forces for either the remainder of this war or until such a time that you're no longer needed. To further entice your employer, I am also offering to pay the debt incurred by your previous client, who we believe to be the now deceased Irish throne claimant, Otto Siadhail.

~ Venetian Admiral Enrico Dandolo ~
Does the Unencrypted mean that we can pick up on it?
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Toussaint
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Atticus
May 16 2010, 04:55 PM
Unencrypted Message to the Mercenary Captain
 
I have accepted your ceasefire, but must inquire, where do you intend to go? If you have no other job offers open at this time, I, with the treasury of Venice at my back, would like to employ your forces for either the remainder of this war or until such a time that you're no longer needed. To further entice your employer, I am also offering to pay the debt incurred by your previous client, who we believe to be the now deceased Irish throne claimant, Otto Siadhail.

~ Venetian Admiral Enrico Dandolo ~
Does the Unencrypted mean that we can pick up on it?
Yes it does.
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Telosan
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Atticus
May 16 2010, 04:40 PM
You are ridiculous Telo, look at my edited post.
Quote:
 
Edited by Atticus, Today, 11:09 AM.
Kas posted that 44 minutes ago, and its 2:36 pacific time. Stop trying to undercut me. Besides, the mercs were already on Otto's side, so it would make sense that their trust goes to another member of that side.
How am I ridiculous? Lets look at some more timestamps, shall we? Every post of Kas' and mine from "Yesterday, 7:47 PM" to "Today, 8:33 AM", we're talking about how Venice would come around to hiring the mercenaries. It was not until "57 minutes ago" in this thread and "Today, 2:09 PM" in the IC thread that you said ANYTHING regarding the mercenaries. May I also point out that, also 57 minutes ago, Kas' gave me the go ahead to hiring out the mercs.

I am not trying to undercut you. Kas and I had already finished negotiating what was going to happen to the mercenary fleet by the time you said anything about hiring them yourself. When you edited your post to include the transmission to the merc captain, you did so BEFORE saying anything here about them, meaning you tried to take the forces away from Venice while knowing, OOC, that I was negotiating with Kas about them, a full 2 hours before asking for permission to hire them out. Yes, and I'm the ridiculous one.

*All that is in East Coast time.

Tou, I understand Venice is not the dominant power. I just want it to be acknowledged that Venetian forces aren't just being run over without them being noticed. That's all. I didn't want a big argument.

EDIT: Spelling errors and mismatched links.
Edited by Telosan, May 16 2010, 05:07 PM.
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Telosan
May 16 2010, 05:05 PM
Atticus
May 16 2010, 04:40 PM
You are ridiculous Telo, look at my edited post.
Quote:
 
Edited by Atticus, Today, 11:09 AM.
Kas posted that 44 minutes ago, and its 2:36 pacific time. Stop trying to undercut me. Besides, the mercs were already on Otto's side, so it would make sense that their trust goes to another member of that side.
How am I ridiculous? Lets look at some more timestamps, shall we? Every post of Kas' and mine from "Yesterday, 7:47 PM" to "Today, 8:33 AM", we're talking about how Venice would come around to hiring the mercenaries. It was not until "57 minutes ago" in this thread and "Today, 2:09 PM" in the IC thread that you said ANYTHING regarding the mercenaries. May I also point out that, also 57 minutes ago, Kas' gave me the go ahead to hiring out the mercs.

I am not trying to undercut you. Kas and I had already finished negotiating what was going to happen to the mercenary fleet by the time you said anything about hiring them yourself. When you edited your post to include the transmission to the merc captain, you did so BEFORE saying anything here about them, meaning you tried to take the forces away from Venice while knowing, OOC, that I was negotiating with Kas about them, a full 2 hours before asking for permission to hire them out. Yes, and I'm the ridiculous one.

*All that is in East Coast time.

Tou, I understand Venice is not the dominant power. I just want it to be acknowledged that Venetian forces aren't just being run over without them being noticed. That's all. I didn't want a big argument.

EDIT: Spelling errors and mismatched links.
Look at the time when I notified Kas that I had posted something about the message I had sent to the merc captain, it was the same time when he posted your confirmation. Plus, my post about the message was a good 4 hours ago, at 11, as it is 3:17 here in Pacific time.

In addition to that, I wasn't on yesterday, so I was just making my fair statement. I had posted the message far before Kas had brought it up today. I simply saw it, and notified him. I'm not trying to take the forces away from you, those forces were technically ours to begin with. I'm trying to stop him from leaving our side, simply because Sed wouldn't do anything with them. Sed made only one or two posts about them, and because of that, Kas made plans to leave. Its unfair that our side is to suffer because Sed wouldn't take command of the ships.
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Kasnyia
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Uh...wow. :huh:

I'll wait for this to be resolved before I continue the bank's involvement with this RP.
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Kasnyia
May 16 2010, 07:06 PM
Uh...wow. :huh:

I'll wait for this to be resolved before I continue the bank's involvement with this RP.
But you are the deciding factor.
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Kasnyia
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IC, I have no scruples working for either side or both at the same time.

OOC, I'm undecided.
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Hastine
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 *  *  *  *  *  *
Toussaint
May 13 2010, 06:43 PM
I know you're there. However, I looked at Telo's map for most of my information, and wasn't quite sure where your forces were.

Tell me, and I can edit you in.
My post clearly states where my navy and airforce are, but for a refresh; it's located at the narrowing point of the southern Irish Sea. Not moving any farther in, but not moving backwards, either.

With the recent shitstorm that has blown up over Otto's assassination and the scuffle between Venice and Britain, though, I'm reconsidering my role in this war, especially the Ireland part.
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Vespery
May 16 2010, 07:23 PM
Toussaint
May 13 2010, 06:43 PM
I know you're there. However, I looked at Telo's map for most of my information, and wasn't quite sure where your forces were.

Tell me, and I can edit you in.
My post clearly states where my navy and airforce are, but for a refresh; it's located at the narrowing point of the southern Irish Sea. Not moving any farther in, but not moving backwards, either.

With the recent shitstorm that has blown up over Otto's assassination and the scuffle between Venice and Britain, though, I'm reconsidering my role in this war, especially the Ireland part.
Yeah, sorry about our argument before. I was completely in the wrong.
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Telosan
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Taking this out of the thread. Atticus, I'm PMing you.
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Hastine
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Atticus
May 16 2010, 07:25 PM
Vespery
May 16 2010, 07:23 PM
Toussaint
May 13 2010, 06:43 PM
I know you're there. However, I looked at Telo's map for most of my information, and wasn't quite sure where your forces were.

Tell me, and I can edit you in.
My post clearly states where my navy and airforce are, but for a refresh; it's located at the narrowing point of the southern Irish Sea. Not moving any farther in, but not moving backwards, either.

With the recent shitstorm that has blown up over Otto's assassination and the scuffle between Venice and Britain, though, I'm reconsidering my role in this war, especially the Ireland part.
Yeah, sorry about our argument before. I was completely in the wrong.
It's cool. ^^ I tend to get flared up about stuff at first and then calm down quickly, heh. I just don't want to be taken for granted, so I kinda know how Telo feels. But I'm staying out of that argument.
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