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What do you think? (Please read first post)
Terrible idea (I want RL geography, no exceptions!) 1 (7.7%)
Has some merit (I want to see different possible geographies before deciding) 8 (61.5%)
Great idea (Screw real geography, I want to colonize Atlantis!) 4 (30.8%)
Total Votes: 13
Future 1452 Geography
Topic Started: Jan 21 2010, 05:08 PM (1,039 Views)
East Anarx
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Anarchitect

This is the world as we, (IC 1452,) know it:

Posted Image

Obviously, we don't know for sure, (IC,) what the world outside of this area looks like. I mean, sure, we know there's a lot of water to the west, we've heard rumors of Asia extending off to the east, and Africa extending off to the south, but how far, we don't know... Our vision of the world is incomplete, but that's a good thing!

Posted Image

There are some who may meta-consciously, (OOC,) have a vision of the rest of the world that looks like this:

Posted Image

But, what if the continents look far different than what we assume they will look like?

Maybe Africa is just the northern reaches of a great Terra Australis, or the Americas don't even exist and if you sail far enough westward eventually you'll hit India? Or something else entirely?

My question to you, forum-dwelling brethren, is how closely do you want the geography of 1452's future to correspond with real geography? Right now, my understanding is that it will perfectly correspond, but is that necessary? What if we switched it up a bit? I mean, we already have a world with geography that roughly corresponds to reality, why not try one that's a little different?

EDIT: Imagine stepping upon a fresh, new continent, one never before discovered, (and perhaps naming it after your emperor back in the motherland,) and imagine charting the islands, coasts, rivers, mountain ranges of a whole new world. It might require cooperative map-making on a scale never before undertaken on this forum, but just imagine it for a moment, the future is not only unwritten, it is uncharted, unmapped, unbound! (un)inhabited!?

EDIT2: The following map is just one example of the ways this idea could go horribly wrong if implemented hastily and foolishly:

Posted Image

I sliced up the old world a bit too much, IMO, and I was really sloppy on almost all the coast-lines, (I would definitely not want to RP in a world that looked like that,) but maybe you get some some idea, (albeit a bad one,) of the possibilities.

EDIT3: And here's another slightly more conservative, (I left most of the eastern coastlines of the Americas intact,) modestly better, (though still atrocious, IMO,) possibility:

Posted Image
Edited by East Anarx, Jan 21 2010, 07:27 PM.
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Abnar
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
I like the idea, but let's at least finish the current bout of wars, and probably fill up a little more of the current real estate before we expand further. I want to see what kind of issues limited area brings up.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Abnar
Jan 21 2010, 06:28 PM
I like the idea, but let's at least finish the current bout of wars, and probably fill up a little more of the current real estate before we expand further. I want to see what kind of issues limited area brings up.
I completely agree, I only mention this as a potential future among many.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Its currently 1452, we have 40 years IC until Chris finds the Americas, assuming it is him that does so (we'll have to talk about who gets discovery rights).

I like this idea, but I want to see what the map would look like first, especially since I havet to work with it. Doing this will confuse the NPCs of the area. I could still use the RL nations and just give them approx. territory.

Also, if someone does the map, they will also have to do the provinces borders as well. Those who want to try their hand can make a dozen maps, send them to E. We'll vote on the artist's maps as well as the normal. It might be easier if Huesca could conjure up the worldmap version of what we're already using for a template.

Oh yes, and I think Europe should stay the same.
Edited by Telosan, Jan 21 2010, 06:55 PM.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Telosan
Jan 21 2010, 06:52 PM
Oh yes, and I think Europe should stay the same.
Absolutely. It's already mapped!

And I am concerned about messing with the Middle East and inner Asia as well, since they're basically known IC.

Has Africa been circumnavigated yet?
Edited by East Anarx, Jan 21 2010, 07:03 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

I'm divided.

1) I think it would be a really cool idea for an exploration RP as long as the areas that were historically known are kept the same. Like no messing with Central Asia or India, or in Africa Ethiopia, but I don't know how far this would extend.

2) On the other hand, I know from all my reading that so much of the way things worked in real life was highly interconnected with the rest of the world even if not apparent. So it would bug me.

But I'm leaning toward 1. Cool idea E!
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
I think that if we drew an imaginary line continuing the Ural Mountains through the MidEast, everything east of that line could be tampered with, all the way back to the east coast of Greenland. In Africa, the southern edge of the Sahara should be the border. I'll be making an attempt at the map, but I'm not likely going to refine it much.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Telosan
Jan 21 2010, 09:12 PM
I think that if we drew an imaginary line continuing the Ural Mountains through the MidEast, everything east of that line could be tampered with, all the way back to the east coast of Greenland. In Africa, the southern edge of the Sahara should be the border. I'll be making an attempt at the map, but I'm not likely going to refine it much.
Alexander went further than what you would get in line with the Urals, and the classical geographers had wider knowledge.

Also, what line do you mean by the Sahara? It is a wide band after all.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Quote:
 
2) On the other hand, I know from all my reading that so much of the way things worked in real life was highly interconnected with the rest of the world even if not apparent. So it would bug me.
There are some parts that are so directly connected to what we have so far that they simply can't be done away with, but I'd like to think that Australia and the Americas, (at the very least,) could have been much different geographically and not have had too much of an effect on the world as we know it in 1452.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Esternarx
Jan 21 2010, 11:15 PM
Quote:
 
2) On the other hand, I know from all my reading that so much of the way things worked in real life was highly interconnected with the rest of the world even if not apparent. So it would bug me.
There are some parts that are so directly connected to what we have so far that they simply can't be done away with, but I'd like to think that Australia and the Americas, (at the very least,) could have been much different geographically and not have had too much of an effect on the world as we know it in 1452.
Yeah, that is quite reasonable :D
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

This website I just found out about might have some information worth looking at. Have you ever heard of the Ming Dynasty world map from 1418?

Posted Image

I haven't verified the validity of it or anything, so take it with a grain of salt.
Edited by East Anarx, Jan 21 2010, 11:43 PM.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Esternarx
Jan 21 2010, 06:59 PM
Telosan
Jan 21 2010, 06:52 PM
Oh yes, and I think Europe should stay the same.
Absolutely. It's already mapped!

And I am concerned about messing with the Middle East and inner Asia as well, since they're basically known IC.

Has Africa been circumnavigated yet?
No, but I am moving down. See my RP to find my southernmost explored point.

As to that supposed Ming map - I say fraud. The Ismus of Panama in that much detail? Bullocks.
Edited by New Harumf, Jan 22 2010, 10:47 AM.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jan 22 2010, 11:14 AM.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 22 2010, 10:52 AM
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
I like.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Tristan da Cunha
Jan 22 2010, 10:52 AM
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
YES! Though I had in mind a team of map-makers, perhaps multiple people could send a variety of ideas to you and you could analyze, synthesize, and generate an abstraction, while keeping it secret from the rest of us.
Edited by East Anarx, Jan 22 2010, 04:26 PM.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Esternarx
Jan 22 2010, 04:19 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 22 2010, 10:52 AM
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
YES! Though I had in mind a team of map-makers, perhaps multiple people could send a variety of ideas to you and you could analyze, synthesize, and generate an abstraction, while keeping it secret from the rest of us.
Or, we that go a-voyaging could describe what we discover to the mapmakers, and they can add it as we see it, with their own diabolical twists!
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

New Harumf
Jan 22 2010, 05:02 PM
Esternarx
Jan 22 2010, 04:19 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 22 2010, 10:52 AM
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
YES! Though I had in mind a team of map-makers, perhaps multiple people could send a variety of ideas to you and you could analyze, synthesize, and generate an abstraction, while keeping it secret from the rest of us.
Or, we that go a-voyaging could describe what we discover to the mapmakers, and they can add it as we see it, with their own diabolical twists!
As has been mentioned before, we'll need to determine an equitable way to divide up the exploration rights.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Esternarx
Jan 22 2010, 04:19 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 22 2010, 10:52 AM
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
YES! Though I had in mind a team of map-makers, perhaps multiple people could send a variety of ideas to you and you could analyze, synthesize, and generate an abstraction, while keeping it secret from the rest of us.
What if people don't like the resulting map? I think it should be voted on beforehand. Though I do like this idea, I'm afraid that I wouldn't like the map and it could ruin the game.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Telosan
Jan 22 2010, 10:20 PM
Esternarx
Jan 22 2010, 04:19 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 22 2010, 10:52 AM
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
YES! Though I had in mind a team of map-makers, perhaps multiple people could send a variety of ideas to you and you could analyze, synthesize, and generate an abstraction, while keeping it secret from the rest of us.
What if people don't like the resulting map? I think it should be voted on beforehand. Though I do like this idea, I'm afraid that I wouldn't like the map and it could ruin the game.
:o Really? You don't trust TC? :unsure:
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Esternarx
Jan 22 2010, 11:26 PM
Telosan
Jan 22 2010, 10:20 PM
Esternarx
Jan 22 2010, 04:19 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 22 2010, 10:52 AM
The "Ming map" seems to be a 1763 (or later) map misattributed to 1418.

Regarding this thread, I really like the idea of the unknown world map for RP. I think even major alterations to the Old World continents could be accomodated through skillful revisionist history. Another possibility is to have one or more designated mapmakers (for example, me :lol: ) generate the landform of the New World, Africa, and Asia, and reveal their appearance as maritime exploration proceeds, so that players don't know beforehand what the other continents look like or what the civilizations located there are like.
YES! Though I had in mind a team of map-makers, perhaps multiple people could send a variety of ideas to you and you could analyze, synthesize, and generate an abstraction, while keeping it secret from the rest of us.
What if people don't like the resulting map? I think it should be voted on beforehand. Though I do like this idea, I'm afraid that I wouldn't like the map and it could ruin the game.
:o Really? You don't trust TC? :unsure:
I do, but I'm caught between a new map and the real one.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
In actuality I probably won't be responsible for making the new map, because I can't take the pressure of letting down Telosan, and I won't have the time. I got excited about immediately jumping in and making some map prototypes but my cooler head has prevailed, the time and energy commitment is too much. I still like the idea though and will try to make constructive comments about this undertaking.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Quote:
 
because I can't take the pressure of letting down Telosan
:rolleyes:
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
What's with the eye roll? I would honestly feel bad if I made a map that you didn't end up liking.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Tristan da Cunha
Jan 23 2010, 12:12 AM
What's with the eye roll? I would honestly feel bad if I made a map that you didn't end up liking.
I don't know what Telo meant by it, but I've noticed it is quite common to use eye roll emoticons on forums in places where it makes little sense.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

:rolleyes:

EDIT: Okay, in order for this post not to be total spam, I have to say that despite bringing up the idea, I am very skeptical of it. It will require a lot more work than using the RL map, and not something I feel that can be done by one person alone if we want it to be good.
Edited by East Anarx, Jan 23 2010, 12:51 AM.
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