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| Pamplona Summit | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 17 2010, 12:43 PM (970 Views) | |
| Alberto | Jan 20 2010, 04:39 AM Post #26 |
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Resident Italian
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Sirs No security of this contnient can be achieved without a strong Republic of France, this has been proved by the past as the Republican forces have often fought successfully for the freedom of the entire continent . We are generally unfavourable to the annexation of French national territory by a third power as we cannot tolerate that fellow Frenchmen go under a non french nation . We believe that a common economical area would be very auspicable as would be a military alliance, but first we must settle some very important questions, as the one of boundaries . |
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| NRE | Jan 20 2010, 06:11 PM Post #27 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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"Whether or not France should be a Republic is something of debate" said Prince Orlov. "However, such debates are not proper for this point and time and neither I should think are discussion over annexations occurring at this time. I am curious as to by what means respect is to be gathered by the nations of Europe when it comes to the idea put forth by the Morbihan delegate of spheres of influence. Just because a nation claims to be the benefactor and protector of a region, thereby creating a sphere of influence, does not mean they should be held in respect. After all, by what means has this nation gain such an sphere of influence? Have they aided the people of that area in some way or have they exploited these people and forced them under their guidance by way of arms? If a nation should seek influence over an area the Russian Empire will only respect this nation if we can see physical proof that this nation has the best in mind for these people. Schools, roads, and hospitals could be built or jobs could be created to help stimulate the economy of that area. These are the things the Empire will hold a worthy reasons of respect." |
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| Union | Jan 20 2010, 06:24 PM Post #28 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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"To be perfectly Frank, Mr. Saxe and Mr. [Alberto], the Union government does not trust the two French rump states to the same degree as our partnership with the previous regime. The French governments have shown themselves to be unstable and brief, and we will not so readily trust this third incarnation as we have the previous two. We will not debate the matter further, nor is this meeting the proper place for such a debate. We are here to prevent future illegal expansions without war, not to dwell on the actions of the past, however recent. This all being said, and I felt it needed to be said, I echo the statement of the Russians. Particularly in Iberia - whose sphere of influence is that, rightly? The African colonizers? The Roman invaders? The Venetian occupiers? Or the last remnant of the last legitimate government of the region? I can imagine we would have a wide array of opinion here on the matter of the Laws of Spain, to the point that dividing Europe into spheres would be a wholly political matter, and a worthless endeavor. The organization we are gathered here to discuss would be wholly anti-political, raising no ideology, and making no judgments - simply preserving peace and administrating peace in a common forum of diplomacy for Europe." Edited by Union, Jan 20 2010, 06:24 PM.
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| Toussaint | Jan 20 2010, 06:40 PM Post #29 |
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Major
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Lord Cyril Cornwallis spoke up for the first time since the meeting began. "The conference assembled here is a fair representation of most of Europe. Most of the major powers of the continent are here, and a wide array of governments and peoples are represented. However, I am of the opinion that the absence of the Roman Empire does little to help this conference. If the Romans really would oppose so much as you say they would, and twist this conference around their whims, then why wouldn't the majority shut them down? My Huescan counterpart seems to be of little faith with regards to the resolves of those here at this conference, and I would even wager that his real motive for discluding the Romans is fa less pragmatic than he lets on. "As that issue has already been resolved, however, I shall move on to address other points. The Kasnyian and Ulganian presence on this continent are both disgusting matters that should be handled swiftly. These outsiders threaten our way of life, and the finer points of European culture. Their presence is an insult to the pride of this continent. "As far as the Huescan expansion into France, I am not too terribly worried by it. Although I recognize the legitimacy of Morbihan's claims, I feel that they should deal with that problem should the time come; that is, as a successor state to the Sixth Republic, if they ever designed to expand towards the Pyrenees, the problem could be dealt with then. As of now, however, I support Huesca's moves, as neither of the French states have moved towards expanding beyond their current borders. Huesca's minuscule expansion, then provides security for both themselves and the French population in Pau. "All that is a philosophical business, however. Now, to get to the specifics proposed by my friend from the Union: "As far as a military alliance to protect the continent from foreigners goes, I am in support of this decision. However, I do not support an alliance that extends beyond that. As a state that neighbors powers with whom we have poor relations, The British Kingdom cannot afford to fight wars on the far side of the continent between two European powers. In addition, I am confident that His Majesty King Edward IX, God save him, would not approve of allying himself with so many powers so quickly. As a conservative leader, I am sure that he would wish to screen each and every one of his friends-to-be individually, and negotiate specific terms for each specific alliance. "The 'European Congress' proposed by the Union is laughable. This attempt to regulate the continent would not be favorable for anybody, and I feel that it is wholly unneeded for a European expansionism council to regulate the actions of states. What if a state is not a part of this pact? What is the penalty for infractions? It seems the idea is fighting war with more war- and that is something I shall not stand behind. I can say with certainty that Britain would play no part. "A unified market is also a non-negotiable term. My Kingdom has its tariffs set on certain nations at certain levels for certain reasons. It is amongst the primary interests of my King to defend his country's economics, and this open market shall limit his capacity to protect British merchants. I can say with confidence that lack of economic sovereignty is not an appealing option for the Crown." |
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| Porcu | Jan 20 2010, 07:00 PM Post #30 |
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"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
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"Porcu implores our English comrades to understand the necessity of increased international trade, free from encumbering protectionist policy. I cannot see how my government may come to support the results of this conference if basic and common sense policies cannot be agreed upon. In regards to Ulgania, whom my government makes no apologies in engaging with, I must again refer my fellow comrades to my government's policy of supporting overseas territories if that is the will of the people. Ulgania has repeatedly shown itself to be a willing trade partner and capable ally of Porcu. As with Rome, Europe only stands to benefit from increased trade and economic cooperation with Ulgania." |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 20 2010, 07:05 PM Post #31 |
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Science and Industry
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Ramesses de Saxe: "Prince Orlov, while I understand your sentiments I also find them distinctly republican. It is not only enough that a ruler should provide for his people; he must also possess a legitimate claim sanctified by national tradition. With both he is a just ruler; with one, he is only a usurper. Without the moderating influence of the law of tradition there is no limit or tether to the usurper's ambitions. "Chairman Trouillefou, you speak disingenuously of preventing illegal expansions when the Union itself has engaged in an action that is illegal. Surely we must deal with illegal acts in an orderly manner, thus resolving the first illegal act before moving on to the address the second, third, and subsequent illegal acts. "The French 'rump' states are no more or less feeble than the Spanish rump states, and we see no reason why the interests of Spain and France cannot be aligned without one aggrandizing upon the territory of the other. Again I request President Alcala-Galiano withdraw his troops from the area of Pau, out of respect for the rule of law. Only after that is accomplished can meaningful discourse take place. "Finally, while I obviously disagree with Lord Cornwallis' apathy toward the Union's expansion into Pau, in other respects I agree with Lord Cornwallis' objections to the terms of the continental diplomatic system proposed thus far, and find that his concerns for Britain matches my own concerns for Morbihan." |
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| Telosan | Jan 20 2010, 07:06 PM Post #32 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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OOC: What is Kasnyia's home region? IC: "I, too, must side with Prince Orlov regarding the spheres of influence. As the argument there has already been argued, I'll move on. The British have spoken about the military alliance aspect. I must agree with them as well. If we do not ally with that one nation in Scandinavia who goes to war, why should we fight for them? If we were already allied with them, we may fight for them anyway, regardless of the existence of this pact. The assistance of other member nations must be obligatory, up to the point that sovereignty of the member nation in question is threatened. Even then, assisting members should be local, not from the far side of the continent. A pact does not in any way guarantee peace among it's members? What would happen should any 2 or more members war with each other? By forcing an intervention, the pact will be split in as many factions as there exists in the war, each one backing one of the warring members and the peace of Europe will be shattered, replaced by a continent wide, possibly world wide, war. Such instances much be discussed." EDIT to the previous posts: "Venice will not completely remove tariffs. We will lower them, yes, but to remove them altogether would completely destroy Venetian businesses. We must also say that the Huescan move on the Pyrenees people in not entirely just. You reap the heirlooms of a fallen nation to soon, placing a people who previously enjoyed democracy under a more restrictive, authoritarian-like regime. Such a transformation cannot be done silently." Edited by Telosan, Jan 20 2010, 07:13 PM.
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| Toussaint | Jan 20 2010, 07:23 PM Post #33 |
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Major
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With the Porcuian's matter-of-fact response, Lord Cornwallis began to fume. However, Lord Bracknell picked up for him, and continued the conversation on Britain's behalf. "I am rather insulted that you consider economics such a trivial matter. Britain must look out for Britain. Not "Europe." I am certain that His Majesty will reserve the rights to protect the British economy. It is unfortunate that the Porcuian government does not look out for its own merchant class so well as Edward does. "International trade is not looked down on. However, unrestricted, or nearly unrestricted trade is a damagous notion. Britain shall set its own tariffs, and not be hindered by the default settings of some European Union redux. Economic sovereignty is a part of independence. The proposals here today cut into that sovereignty. That, my friend, should be 'common sense.' "The Venetian delegation echoes my friend Lord Cornwallis' good sense, as does Lord de Saxe. I am pleased to see not all of us are so simple minded as the rude Porcuian." |
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| Union | Jan 20 2010, 07:26 PM Post #34 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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Trouillefou ignored the Frenchman. "Perhaps if the Venetians returned our lands in Asturias, Galicia, and Valencia, we would be more inclined to hear of their opinions on Pau. We are fools to get caught up in such pettiness, of course. The past is the past, and this a conference on the future. We should truly move on. If we have settled that this organization would band together to prevent colonial action in Europe, then perhaps we should settle whether that is the sole role of such an organization - is there no economic or military cooperation among the concert of Europe that seems feasible or even desirable? If not tariffs, what? Is there anything outside of love for Romans that the great monarchies of Europe can agree upon, if you pardon my frank language?" A lanky man entered from the back of the room, and moved quietly, almost unnoticed, to the Porcurian desk. He dropped off a small paper, which the Porcurian delegate took. I would like to meet privately with you, at the conclusion of the conference, to talk specifically of Porcurian-Union relations. The democratic sensibility in Europe must be protected from these men who refuse to realize that the past no longer exists. Trouillefou Edited by Union, Jan 20 2010, 07:34 PM.
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| Porcu | Jan 20 2010, 07:37 PM Post #35 |
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"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
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"Porcu has no need to guide, protect and oversee its merchants as a dog does with the blind. Perhaps our English comrades are conceding that their economy is weak and unstable, for Porcu has been open to free, unfettered trade for many, many years and has not suffered. Her people are well educated, cultured, and enjoy a high standard of living compared to her sheep herding comrades across the Continent. I never stated that a common currency was needed, I readily state that my government will always keep the Denarius close, but I do propose the creation of a broad European economic community, where trade is unhindered and the flow of capital is unrestricted." Upon receiving the small note from Trouillefou, Minister Altofiore quickly and as discreetly as possible jotted down his response. I am yours. Edited by Porcu, Jan 20 2010, 07:40 PM.
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 20 2010, 07:48 PM Post #36 |
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Science and Industry
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Ramesses de Saxe: "There is no love for the Greeks, among the realm of Morbihan; may God strike us down if we ever forget the past. I believe Morbihan cannot find allies at this 'conference on the future,' thus we must find our own way." The Prime Minister departed. |
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| Toussaint | Jan 20 2010, 08:37 PM Post #37 |
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Major
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"Oh, please, do not be so arrogant. There are no absolutes in economics, and the Porcuian laissez-faire attitude is ridiculous. I am not saying the government must command resources. I am not advocating socialism. However, what my Porcuian friend here needs to understand, is that government must be flexible. What this organization here proposes is absurd, and I can provide nothing but contempt for it. "So, my friend, sign way your sovereignty to the Huescans. See if it is a care of Britain. However, I will not see my government a part of this pact, which lacks common sense and seeks to dominate its members policies. And with that, I bid you adieu." With that, Lord Cornwallis and Lord Bracknell departed from the conference steaming mad, ready to inform His Majesty that the Pamplona Pact was nothing but bad news. Edited by Toussaint, Jan 20 2010, 08:37 PM.
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| Union | Jan 21 2010, 11:34 AM Post #38 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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As Cornwallis left, Trouillefou spat into his microphone, "Without a doubt he will now board a plane to Rome, to discuss his own little alliance. One wonders why those who seek only to oppose bother showing up." |
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| Alberto | Jan 21 2010, 02:10 PM Post #39 |
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Resident Italian
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" Sirs Undoubtedly there is a government in Paris and this government is rapidly re-establishing the same efficient state of before, it's for this that we say that you cannot ignore the existance of a Republic of France . Now we can discuss over its area of influence, but the republican government has guaranteed even despite its alleged " instability ", civic rights and freedom to milions of people which cannot be now put under another state . The presumption of the old monarchies risks to make impossible any decent accomodation because, as usual, only the voice of few will be listened . For this I find myself in the obligation to leave this conference " Albert Chassérian, Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs Edited by Alberto, Jan 21 2010, 02:11 PM.
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| NRE | Jan 21 2010, 07:39 PM Post #40 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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OOC: Asia, although they owe their ancestry to Germany if I remember correctly. Weird to have Germans in India, perhaps, but then again during the early days of the Kasnyian Empire there were also Italians in China :lol: IC: Prince Orlov was not completely surprised that the conference had gone as it had. After all, though Europe's political boundaries had changed since the Dominion Wars its people, ideas, and hatreds had not. Russia had come as a show of good faith that the Empire, though staunchly monarchic, was willing in the new era to work with the Republicans if it meant that the peace they fought so hard to achieve from the Dominion could be preserved. Sadly it appeared as if that peace as as fragile as the Tsar's precious Fabergé eggs. Orlov looked at his watch and then rose from his seat, there was no point remaining in the Conference especially after Trouillefou's remarks. Still, Orlov did not take the Spaniard's remarks to hear. He was a fair man and though he held the Roman Empire is high esteem, he did not allow that to cloud his judgment, not more than he allowed remarks against them to tempt his anger. Before leaving however, he approached Trouillefou. "The Russian Empire wishes to thank you and your government for both their hospitality at this conference and the invaluable aid they gave during the Dominion Wars. Though we will undoubtedly disagree many times in the future over politics and such, the Empire finds your stance on foreign incursion respectable. Know that should the Spanish choose to stand against a foreign power's incursion into Europe, they may seek out the Empire as an ally." |
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| Sedulius | Jan 21 2010, 08:00 PM Post #41 |
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Field Marshal
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OOC: If people wanted that, I would just direct them to join the LFN. It provides the same sort of security this treaty does. The difference is it reaches worldwide rather than restricting itself to Europe. |
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| Telosan | Jan 21 2010, 09:15 PM Post #42 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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OOC: Most of the people here have left. I don't think this is going to work out. I'm going to have to back out as well, especially since the Union's going to be extremely pissed at me in the future anyway. |
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| Union | Jan 21 2010, 09:41 PM Post #43 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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OOC: It was never meant to work out, Telo. ;) |
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| Sedulius | Jan 22 2010, 03:21 PM Post #44 |
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Field Marshal
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OOC: I like it though. It at least provides another power bloc to the picture. |
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| Telosan | Jan 22 2010, 10:35 PM Post #45 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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OOC: Then what was the point? |
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| Union | Jan 24 2010, 03:14 PM Post #46 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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OOC: The fact that your nation's all sent diplomats to a state which called itself the Union of the Pyrenees implies recognition of the Union itself - including the Pau Republic just recently occupied. It is a major diplomatic triumph that the most important players in the European politics did so, and especially so quickly. Although concerns about the occupation were raised at the conference, even arriving showed, at the very least, implicit respect for the claim and respect for the country itself. In addition, I was trying to see what nations COULD be petitioned for support, and which nations could NOT. IC: Trouillefou left the room soon after the last delegate, moving quickly towards the Porcurian delegation's assigned section of the hall. The talks had lasted only a few short days, including recesses, but he had heard enough to count the Porcurians as an ally, at the very least, against growing monarchist influence in the region. He hoped a consensus could be reached with their government, and perhaps the institution of a small mutual defense pact for all republics in the region, especially those the victims of imperialist ambitions, could be reached. This was but the first step, and if Porcu could be convinced to come aboard as a founding member of such a pact, it would be a major victory. He knocked on the door of the delegate's hall, and waited for a response. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 24 2010, 03:46 PM Post #47 |
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Science and Industry
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OOC: Morbihan recognizes the Union between Navarra and Huesca, but not Pau. Also, showing up for talks does not imply recognition of the Union's claim in Pau, no more than did the START treaties imply American recognition of the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in the 80s. In Morbihan's view, if Trouillefou ever visited France he would not need a passport, since he was born on French territory and would be travelling within the country. |
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| Union | Jan 24 2010, 03:52 PM Post #48 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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OOC: The START treaties were signed in 1991, after a decade of major arms building? No conference or summit was ever held in Soviet soil, either. It is different - imagine a major diplomatic summit in Baghdad, unrelated to the annexation, on August 1st, 1991. I am not RPing your countries for you, merely remarking that the Union government sees it as a propaganda victory and a validation of its existence - including Pau, since a Union flag flew in the room at the time. If anything, it can be seen that although recognition has not been given, the occupation will not be military contested by other powers. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 24 2010, 04:02 PM Post #49 |
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Science and Industry
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OOC: The START treaties were negotiated off and on through the 1980s and finally signed after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan. Afghanistan was a factor impeding the START talks just as Pau is a factor impeding the current series of talks (as far as the French states are concerned). "Major arms building" was only the side effect of lack of diplomatic progress in the 80s. The root cause of lack of diplomatic progress during the 80s was Afghanistan and fear of Soviet expansionism. Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jan 24 2010, 04:02 PM.
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| Union | Jan 24 2010, 04:04 PM Post #50 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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OOC: They were negotiated, however, through embassy exchanges and the like. There was never a START conference or meeting. |
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11:33 AM Jul 13