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European Map Comentary
Topic Started: Apr 23 2005, 07:32 AM (5,000 Views)
Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Hispanian capital is Zaragoza, and the NS account is Waar
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Just out of a painful curiosity, why did Xeres and Catalonia have to leave?

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Comrade Queen
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Comrade Bitchqueen
He had some creepy stalker after him.
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Cacasusian Republic
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Emperor of the Commonwealth of Denojiva "God Save the Emper
 *  *  *  *  *
Is anybody going to add me to the map? Denojiva, Capital: Chereon
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Assassin
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Field Marshal
Scythirus
Apr 2 2007, 02:34 AM
He had some creepy stalker after him.

No kiddin? Weird. He should come back, since I assume his stalker is no longer present.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
Cacasusian Republic
Apr 3 2007, 01:01 AM
Is anybody going to add me to the map? Denojiva, Capital: Chereon

Where are you supposed to be located?
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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Cacasusian Republic
Mar 30 2007, 04:08 PM
Could you put Denojiva on the map, i'd love to have the spot between Pas., Kasniya and AA, as well as the island between AA and Yshurak.

I believe that he would like to be located here

Edit: Also, the link to the German Empire on the European Map is wrong, it should be linked to http://www.nationstates.net/ussr_alumni. Plus, my nation's capital is New Konigsberg.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
lebowski2123
Apr 3 2007, 06:29 PM
Cacasusian Republic
Mar 30 2007, 04:08 PM
Could you put Denojiva on the map, i'd love to have the spot between Pas., Kasniya and AA, as well as the island between AA and Yshurak.

I believe that he would like to be located here

Ok, thanks.
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Assassin
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The Assassination Army
Mar 30 2007, 06:08 PM
I just noticed my base/city state doesnt have a city named. The main city there is Remus. Named after the base. It all one and the same anyways. :lol:

Just as a reminder if/when you update the map. I'd do it, but thats mapmaker territory and I dont want to step on toes.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
I think you missed it, so I'll put it again. My colonial capital here is Karlsburg.
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Tristan da Cunha
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The Assassination Army
Apr 3 2007, 06:34 PM
The Assassination Army
Mar 30 2007, 06:08 PM
I just noticed my base/city state doesnt have a city named. The main city there is Remus. Named after the base. It all one and the same anyways.  :lol:

Just as a reminder if/when you update the map. I'd do it, but thats mapmaker territory and I dont want to step on toes.

Ok the capitals have all been fixed. Feel free to edit the map if you find a mistake, I prefer to be lazy! :lol:
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
I have a new idea. How about I fill in the gray areas on the European with minor nations (who will all be colored gray). That way the continent doesn't look like an empty wasteland. This will be a purely aesthetic improvement to the map; same expansion rules still apply, and the minor nations do not participate in RP. What do you all think?
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Trilateral Commission
Apr 6 2007, 11:27 AM
I have a new idea. How about I fill in the gray areas on the European with minor nations (who will all be colored gray). That way the continent doesn't look like an empty wasteland. This will be a purely aesthetic improvement to the map; same expansion rules apply, and the minor nations do not participate in RP. What do you all think?

While the minor nations would not RP, would we be able to refer to them in the context of RP, for flavor purposes?
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Tristan da Cunha
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Yes, that is a good idea. The minor nations will never "initiate" RP. But player nations can involve the minor nations in their RPs (like an invasion of a minor nation by a player nation)
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Assassin
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Field Marshal
Sounds like a good idea TC. Have a mock war with a NPC nation as you take their land. :lol:

My only hesitation would be that people will get land-grabby as a result.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Expansion rules are still the same. In th past, people invented their own NPC neighbors, and conducted mock wars with these NPC nations to justify their expansion. The only thing different now is that the NPC nations will now be clearly listed on the map.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
OOC: This is an idea I am really against. It should be left to a players imaginatio whether the gray area is another nation or an anarchy. Furthermore, it forces new players to recognize that they haven't been their all along (as some new players do) and these stupid NPC nations have.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
Who you calling a stupid NPC nation?? You're a stupid NPC nation!!

Ok, good point. I won't label the gray area.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Quaon
Apr 6 2007, 06:01 PM
OOC: This is an idea I am really against. It should be left to a players imaginatio whether the gray area is another nation or an anarchy. Furthermore, it forces new players to recognize that they haven't been their all along (as some new players do) and these stupid NPC nations have.

Agreed, well, sort of. I am also against NPC nations, just not for the same reasons Q is. I think NPC nations are a fundamentally good idea. The massive gray areas that really don't do anything require a lot of suspension of disbelief. There simply hasn't been a time in human history where somebody hasn't been in charge everywhere with sufficient human settlement, which we can consider the whole globe at this point.

However, that simply isn't how this forum runs. This site is not geared towards full accuracy or believability, and it never will be. As Quaon said, all nations have thusfar had the right to claim that they have always existed. It's not time to take that away, at least not without a full mod vote. I suggest you leave NPC nations for Rex Mundi.
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Draxis
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Captain
OOC: I'm with Q on this, I am against the whole idea of NPC nations on the map.I just don't like it, I prefer the idea of nations pretending if they have neighbors. and well I would rather have it look like vast swaths of Europe are in Anarchy now and there are no determinable power bases, until a new player shows up or someone expands into the space.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

OOC:

Frankly I don't like any of the arguments made against TC's idea so far. As for as the right of nations to claim they have always existed, this should not cause any issues here. First of all, national histories are independent of each other and don't have to match. Second of all, nations that form in the territory of preexisting defunct nations can claim they always existed without regard to the previous nation, so there is no reason why that would be different now.

As for the ability for a player to determine the prevailing order of gray space, I'll say a couple things. For one thing, providing the names of nations on the map does not prevent them from being anarchy; see real life Somalia or Iraq. As before, expansions into defunct nations often use anarchy as an excuse even though the nation name is listed, so there is no reason that would be different here either. Also, it should be remembered that nations protesting an expansion can perfectly legimately claim that there is not anarchy and the expanding power is just belligerent, so the issue of anarchy vs government is really not a major issue to me.

Now while this may seem to be a major change, it really looks to me that TC's idea would be a cosmetic change more than anything, with the primary purpose of beautifying his map.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
Good point. This change will be cosmetic in nature, and will not affect any usual RP practices.

One pertinent example:

I see from Quaon's history thread that Quaon claims to have been established in the 1200s AD, but in fact, around autumn 2005, before Quaon came to this forum, there was a nation in that spot called Okraina.

Okraina was later deleted and Quaon took Okraina's former land.

Precisely because this forum is not geared toward accuracy or believeability, Quaon is totally allowed to ignore all mention and history of the former nation of Okraina, and claim that Quaon has been there for centuries.

The same thing with the "NPC" nations. A new nation can appear, and totally ignore the existence of the old "NPC" nation it replaced. I shouldn't even say NPC because NPC stands for Non Player Character, while these "NPC" nations are not characters in any sense of the word. They have no character, no description, nothing that isn't determined by actual player nations who want to interact with the particular plot of land. The proposed labelled plots of land should be more accurately described as geographical regions, rather than political units.
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Draxis
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Captain
OOC: And I don't really like any of the for arguments either RD. While this may be a cosmetic change I still don't like the idea. I'm not going to argue the idea of national histories as it is a completely separate entity to this argument.

There is just something about this I do not like. Maybe I am just a status quoist and want to keep things close to the same all over the boards and have the maps be similar.

But it seems that the majority is against Q and I on this one.

Realized nor was against as well.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Draxis
Apr 6 2007, 10:28 PM
Maybe I am just a status quoist and want to keep things close to the same all over the boards and have the maps be similar.

I think it is decidedly ironic that I'd find somebody taking this position against me.
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Caronicilia
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I personally think that its a grand idea, since its unrealistic to think that spaces wouldn't be occupied. Perhaps they could just be isolationist governments? And, of course, if somebody were to occupy it, then they could create what ever kind of history they'd want to go with the land.
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