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| I just realized something | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 11 2009, 12:32 AM (225 Views) | |
| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 12:32 AM Post #1 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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How does one formally end a war when the enemy is going to outlast the war itself? My intention (and one most seem to be playing by) is that while the Dominion loses the war, there will be remnants spread throughout the world. Successor states, forgotten outposts, etc. As such, its not like the end of the war could actually be the annihilation of the Dominion. So how do I go about it? Consider it over once the Dominion loses cohesion? When does one consider that to have happened? A formal surrender in exchange for the remnants perhaps? Considering this is the Dominion, I doubt any power would seriously negotiate for anything that would still acknowledge the existance of the original Dominion. Fall of the capital? At the rate and direction the war is going, an entire region would still be under Dominion subjugation at the moment of Zapht's fall. Need ideas. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Dec 11 2009, 12:35 AM Post #2 |
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Legitimist
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I would make it multi-dimensional: - Fall of Zapht - Major defeats in more than theater - Huge morale loss - Death/capture of major leaders - Lack of agreed authority among their subordinates afterwards - Destruction of major WMD militaries, so that successor states are not seen as problem - Allied forces being themselves ravaged enough that they will end the war when they can and not pursue it as total war |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 12:37 AM Post #3 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Major defeats in more than theater? Care to elaborate? |
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| Rhadamanthus | Dec 11 2009, 12:39 AM Post #4 |
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Legitimist
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Basically defeats should be big enough and widespread enough to cause major morale loss. The average Dominion soldier should feel that the Dominion is being crushed into the ground and that he is under siege in toto, and that there is no further point in placing his hopes with the Dominion. He should be willing to desert because he no longer fears the Dominion as much as his enemies. |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 12:52 AM Post #5 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Hmm...No idea what kind of event could do that. I could do for suggestions. As for the other points, I agree. Zapht's fall is a must. Get Zapht, and you get Gassel. The idea of a leadership dispute post-Gassel has been discussed and the environment is primed OOC for such an occurance. Huge morale loss ties in with the beyond-theater defeat, though said loss could also occur with the loss of hero soldiers along with Gassel himself (seeing as the Dominion is kept together mostly by his personal charisma and/or cult of personality). Allied forces at the current time should be about half to 2/3-spent, securing Europe and fighting everywhere else. Asia would break them. As for the loss of Dominion Armies, I'm trying to figure out the final number by the end of it all, hence my obsession with keeping the Army List updated. As it currently stands, Half the Dominion's total fighting strength is located in East and West Asia. Loss there would break the Dominion as a fighting force due to everyone else being spread thin elsewhere. However, actually defeating the Dominion in Asia would be no small task... |
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| New Harumf | Dec 11 2009, 09:01 AM Post #6 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Think Roman Empire. Rome fell, and the rest of the Empire crumbled from lack of central leadership. The major cities of the Dominion could be threatened to be over-run - the central government calls back it's provincial armies to defend the major cities, and these armies are intercepted and defeated, leaving only the skeleton of the former Dominion Empire scattered around the world, too weak to mount any offensive. Once the provincial armies are dedfeated, the central cities fall, leaving the outposts leaderless, and forced to fend for themselves. Some are defeated by locals, some form up successor states where they are. The possibilities are endless. |
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| Ulgania | Dec 11 2009, 12:08 PM Post #7 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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I like that idea. As allied forces are rather spent, one could imagine several campaigns that only focuses on vital Dominion targets, and their outright sacking. You hit one place hard with a coordinated effort, and leave. No real need to be thorough, just fulfill goals and move on to the next part. It leaves the Dominion forces that remain leaderless, and unable to properly mobilize to help in other places if they are summoned. |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 01:54 PM Post #8 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Thats partly why I want to begin the Asian campaign once Mexico is secured. With a second major Pacific port (apart from New Hermanstadt in Pacifica that is under effective blockade), there would be enough harbor facilities to begin operations against the Dominion Pacific Fleet, which would have to follow the doctrine of just hitting major areas, due to the vastness of it all. The American campaign would continue off-screen in deadlock much like the African campaign has. As for the idea of calling back armies to the center NH, I agree and have already enacted some of that. Most of the Dominion's European forces were pulled back to the middle east when it was seen that holding Europe would be untennable with the collapse of the Caesarist regime of Catholic Europe. There are still remnants of the Dominion spread throughout Europe (most notably Scandanavia), but they are no longer able to launch offensives, aid the Centre or do much of anything other than hold their current territory. Africa is much the same way, though this has more to do with sending half its forces to aid Operation Titan rather than any defeats. |
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| Telosan | Dec 11 2009, 03:31 PM Post #9 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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I think we continue as we are, but when Zapht falls and Gassel is captured, power should be divided by his subordinates who can't decide who should lead. Then the left over portions of the Dominion break up into smaller nation states. The smaller ones sue for peace to preserve their little kingdoms, while the larger ones fight amongst each other, claiming to be the real successor to the Dominion, all the while the Coalition/Alliance fights them all. It could work. A different member RPs each Dominion nation state (and their own Coalition/Alliance one if they want) and the remaining members RP their own nations. I'd be willing to take one of the Dominion parts for the purposes of the RP and let Telosan continue in default mode as I did with the Americas. |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 04:00 PM Post #10 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Go ahead and assume a power-struggle will take place. Also had a good idea as to how to invoke a non-theater defeat, RD. |
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| NRE | Dec 11 2009, 04:06 PM Post #11 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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Well I think with all of the Core States of the Dominion destroyed/thrown into anarchy/and/or their central governments crushed and civil war ensue; it's not unrealistic to see an end to the war without an actual and complete end to the Dominion. After all, what good is an army without the infrastructure to back it up, and lets face it, with the core states gone, resources would be limited. With what I've seen on what is to come to much of the Dominion states after the fall of Zapht, I think Gassel Dominion will fall both on paper and physically. Sure some states/leaders/and armies will survive but there will be, from what I've seen, little to nothing left to support a true and actual successor to the WORLD military dominion. Also, given to extreme diversity of the armies, I don't see why its completely illogical to think that not ever minority will continue to fight with the armies. Some may still hold a greater allegiance to their country over the Dominion and return home to either rebuild or join in the fighting depending on the shape of their country. This would significantly impact the capabilities of any army left standing after Zapht's fall. |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 04:11 PM Post #12 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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I'm not so sure. I mean, yeah thats how it seems in the post-Dominion world, but not much news has come from mainland Asia, Australia South America, or the middle east since the end of the war. The DCA is a remnant of the Dominion in Africa. Only Europe and North America has truely been liberated in the post-Dominion world. |
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| Union | Dec 11 2009, 04:31 PM Post #13 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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More realistic would be the possibility of a Pyrric victory - the city falls, but at so large a price other elements are permitted to continue existing in some form because the other side is incapable of fully destroying them. Think Star Wars post-Palpatine and Vader |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 04:40 PM Post #14 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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I agree with that, and that was kind of the idea I've been trying to go for. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 11 2009, 07:34 PM Post #15 |
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Deleted User
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BAM! And that's were Wales comes in. |
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| NRE | Dec 11 2009, 08:36 PM Post #16 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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Well from a purely OOC standpoint, many are waiting for the actual end of the war to start posting, such as myself in regards to the Eastern Empire since the events in the Eastern Empire are directly related to the last minutes (if you will) of the Dominion's life under Gassel's leadership. I could post now but it would spoil what little surprises the story has left :lol: |
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| NRE | Dec 11 2009, 08:37 PM Post #17 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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Sorry to double post but yes, this does make sense and is feasible. |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 11 2009, 08:47 PM Post #18 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Eh, fair point I guess. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Dec 14 2009, 06:04 PM Post #19 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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Yeah, I got bored of waiting. :lol: **** WW1 ended on 25th September 1939. WW2 ended on 3rd October 1990. I envision that once the serious fighting is over (i.e. Zapht gone, Nag Ehgoeg toppled, Eastern Empire deciding that they've had enough of the gaijin) that will be "the end" of the war - in the same way that WW1 ended in 1919 and WW2 ended in 1945. Hell Zapht gone is the defeat of Nazi Germany. Nag Ehgoeg is Japan. The war is over for all intents and purposes once Zapht falls. Successors, succsmessors. Of course a movement like the Dominion will leave ripples - and that's a good thing that enriches our RP world. But it's over when it's over. Aftershocks are just that - aftershocks. As for the Asian theatre... with Gassel dead, the Easter Empire betraying and Nag Ehgoeg curling up, that "stronghold" will fall to infighting without the coalition needing to lift a finger. Why? Because I say so. Deus Ex Machinia style. We can RP out little wars between Free States and Successor States if you really want to. In the AU. Or in the histories threads of new nations rising in Asia. We really don't need to go through the teeth pulling tediousness of explaining how every Asian Dominion Army fell. Hell, have Archimedes pull 80% of the Dominion's military to Nag Ehgoeg to protect it once Zapht falls. Have Voramix recall Dominion troops for a nice poison gas shower to kill the foreigners who failed to protect Zapht. |
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| Kasnyia | Dec 14 2009, 07:55 PM Post #20 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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In regards to the situation post-Zapht, that sounds good too (what of the middle east though?). I'd also like focus on some of the liberation events from the eyes of the resistance as opposed to the various armies. The Dominion movement will never truely die. Even if one were to kill and destroy every single aspect of the original Dominion, the ideals will always be there, and you'll always have that one schmuck that will attempt to create a new Dominion or at least a very very very powerful regional state that is Dominion-esque. As for what happens to the remaining armies, I too do not want each and every one to be destroyed due to time-consumption but also due to wanting standing forces left for future post-war RPing, hiding out all over the world. Dominion's remnant forces in Europe will surrender as soon as Zapht falls, to make for POWs and (in the future) possible mercenaries. Their forces in Africa will eventually become the DCA, so they at least are settled. No idea what will happen to the individual armies in East and West Asia or in the Americas however. Some will likely be destroyed/disbanded outright as a result of the infighting, but for the rest, they will have to be squared away with at some point OOC so that we know what happens IC. Edited by Kasnyia, Dec 15 2009, 03:49 AM.
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