Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
This forum is used with the NationStates web-game designed and run by Max Barry. While not officially affiliated, this serves as the regional forum for the regions: Middle East, African Continent, American Continent, Asian Continent, and European Continent.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and can "read only".

In order to get the most out of these forums, please become a member and read this guide - http://z3.invisionfree.com/nationstates/index.php?showtopic=3060


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Siege of Constantinople 1453; Discussion Thread
Topic Started: Nov 9 2009, 02:29 PM (663 Views)
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
When I get the time, I want to RP the 1453 siege of Constantinople. It is possible for me to win this by myself (if a certain gate had not been unlocked on that final Ottoman assault, the Emperor would have repelled them, and neither the army nor the officers would have had the moral to continue the siege, plus Turkish losses would have been horrid). However, I would prefer a more realistic approach, that is Hungary, Venice, and/or the Holy Roman Empire are able to send aid in time to lift the siege (Venice historically sent a small force (I believe 700 soldiers) that arrived too late).

These things said, I will need at least a moderator and someone to RP the Turks (80,000 men strong, supported by extensive amounts of artillery created by Orban, and a small fleet). I have some 7,000 soldiers, around half of which are foreign (many Italians), the other part Greek. There are some 60,000 citizens and refugees within the city to help defend as well. I have a few warships, which would be aided by foreign warships, mainly Italian.

Venice could get the aid there earlier if it wishes, other people who volunteered help can send help, and if anyone wishes to RP a relief force from Hungary or the Holy Roman Empire (more likely Hungary), they are free to do so.

Please state your intentions.
Edited by Sedulius, Nov 9 2009, 02:29 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Telosan
Member Avatar
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
You want to wait until you have time, and Draxis is working on getting his friend in to play the Turks, so it works out. If someone is going to play the Turks, I think they should at least be here for the siege.

IRL, the late arrival of Venice's troops can be attributed to internal problems. The Doge didn't have the proper grip on the country and was not well liked. I plan on having that changed in my history, giving him a victory where he had a defeat and boosting his popularity, reducing internal strife. Orders would be carried out with less hesitation and Venice could arrive earlier. To stick with a realistic RP, I will not be spending more than 3-500 IC.

How would you have the defenses work? Huesca, are there any rules for walls? Siege weapons must hit them x number of times to destroy them or something?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Union
Member Avatar
Pyrenees Republic
I have not yet worked out a system. This would require the moderator and team members to improvise. This is because the system is intended to be much larger scale than a single seige.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

I can RP the Turks or I can moderate.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Ok, I just finished watching the Kingdom of Heaven, so Sed, I would be happy to work with you to create a system for a siege.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Sorry if I'm not responding hastily. I'll need time for this. We need some time to see what develops anyways. If someone becomes the Turks, then we're good. We also need to see if Huesca himself wants to make any specific siege rules.

That said... well more on this later.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Draxis
Member Avatar
Captain
Sedulius
Nov 17 2009, 06:03 PM
Sorry if I'm not responding hastily. I'll need time for this. We need some time to see what develops anyways. If someone becomes the Turks, then we're good. We also need to see if Huesca himself wants to make any specific siege rules.

That said... well more on this later.
TC has the turks on the European side of the Bosporus. So we have Turks.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Union
Member Avatar
Pyrenees Republic
Make your own rules, boys.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Telosan
Member Avatar
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Quote:
 
TC has the turks on the European side of the Bosporus. So we have Turks.
A break in the Ottoman empire could most realisticaly be explained by a resurgent Byzantine Empire acting as a wedge between east and west. TC's empire really shouldn't be possible until after the siege, but no one says he can't play "post-Constantinople" or something.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Draxis
Member Avatar
Captain
Telosan
Nov 17 2009, 09:52 PM
Quote:
 
TC has the turks on the European side of the Bosporus. So we have Turks.
A break in the Ottoman empire could most realisticaly be explained by a resurgent Byzantine Empire acting as a wedge between east and west. TC's empire really shouldn't be possible until after the siege, but no one says he can't play "post-Constantinople" or something.
I just stated the fact that TC switched over to the Ottomans, and remember he has 100 years of history to play with so he can probably make it possible. And who knows maybe his first target won't be Constantinople... maybe it'll be the Venetians. :lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Al Araam
Member Avatar
Demigod of Death & Inactivity

The Venetians are reasonably heavily invested in the war against the Hafsids. This war system does make that kind of invasion a possibility, so it seems to me it's always prudent to expect a knife in the back.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
Telosan
Nov 17 2009, 09:52 PM
Quote:
 
TC has the turks on the European side of the Bosporus. So we have Turks.
A break in the Ottoman empire could most realisticaly be explained by a resurgent Byzantine Empire acting as a wedge between east and west. TC's empire really shouldn't be possible until after the siege, but no one says he can't play "post-Constantinople" or something.
I'm playing pre-Constantinople. Note that in RL history, the Ottomans conquered Bulgaria 60 years before they conquered Constantinople. That is to say there was a substantial encircling action against Constantinople before the city finally fell.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Which is why it seemed to be such a hopeless situation without the help of others. Though it was not so helpless as always thought. As I said, if those gates don't get opened, I just need to worry about breaches, which get repaired quickly enough when the Turks don't assault.

I suppose we should pretty much RP this. You in agreement, TC?

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
Well, I'll be aiming to take over Constantinople so if that can be accomodated by RP then I'm all for it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Ah, I suppose that is the point of contention then. I of course wish to keep it, while you, as the Ottomans, would naturally want to take it.

So you do intend to take it if you can?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
I do. I'm not expecting or demanding to be successful at it, since our forum's Christendom will probably act in a more coordinated fashion than what transpired historically, but that is indeed my intent.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Nov 18 2009, 03:09 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Telosan
Member Avatar
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
If TC's Turks have been seperate from the eastern Turks for some time, then it is probably possible that Venice could be friendly with the eastern Turks. It's only the western ones who are giving the Venetians a headache.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
I'm not sure yet if I'm separate from the eastern Turks. We'll see what the E. Turk player decides. The two of us might be playing as one national entity - which is what I'm hoping of course, since that would make the siege easier for the Turk side :lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Okay. If there are Turks willing to invade, players willing to assist, and a moderator willing to moderate, I'm willing to get into this.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Telosan
Member Avatar
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
OOC: I think we've waited enough for Draxis' friend. Maybe if TC will RP the southern Ottomans, the falure to take Constantinople can be used as the explanation for the country's breakup.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
Now, since we don't exactly have a refined war system (especially in the case of sieges), how are we going to do this?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Telosan
Member Avatar
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Sedulius
Jan 23 2010, 02:04 PM
Now, since we don't exactly have a refined war system (especially in the case of sieges), how are we going to do this?
It's in progress. The war system should cover more aspects and be more understandable. Sieges, I imagine, would play out on a smaller, city map. The city would have walls with a set amount of "health" on each hex the wall crosses through. The health would probably be represented as 20 hits to destroy, or something along those lines.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Abnar
Member Avatar
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
Telosan
Jan 23 2010, 03:19 PM
Sedulius
Jan 23 2010, 02:04 PM
Now, since we don't exactly have a refined war system (especially in the case of sieges), how are we going to do this?
It's in progress. The war system should cover more aspects and be more understandable. Sieges, I imagine, would play out on a smaller, city map. The city would have walls with a set amount of "health" on each hex the wall crosses through. The health would probably be represented as 20 hits to destroy, or something along those lines.
Alternatively, the defenders in a wall section can only be attacked from outside by ranged weapons. When all the defenders are dead, the wall is considered breeched and units can move through (ladders and whatnot). Once the wall is breeched, if it's held for X number of turns, it's considered destroyed.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sedulius
Member Avatar
Field Marshal
I realize we're going for a somewhat simple system, but it doesn't exactly do justice to the Siege of Constantinople. I think we should have different wall strengths.

Considering that the Byzantines rebuilt the breaches as the Turks made them and defeated all the waves meant for attrition, I'd say they had damn good walls (it was being bombarded by cannon and giant bombards, yet still standing up. It was firing back with its own smaller, breach-loading cannons). The only reason the Turks took Constantinople is on the final day they assaulted with their entire force. They made one breach in the wall, which after the Venetian commander there was killed his forces fled, but even then were it not for the main gate in the walls opening for some reason, the Turks could not have taken the city.

Not trying to undermine the system, I'm just saying there's much more to be considered in a siege.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
East Anarx
Member Avatar
Anarchitect

Is there any reason we all have to use the same system? I mean, as long as all the parties to a war decide to use the same system for that war, then they can decide on as simple or complex a system as they want and try it out. The more we experiment with different systems, the more likely we'll find one that works.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · 1452 General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply