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| Siege of Constantinople 1453; Discussion Thread | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 9 2009, 02:29 PM (665 Views) | |
| Sedulius | Nov 9 2009, 02:29 PM Post #1 |
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Field Marshal
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When I get the time, I want to RP the 1453 siege of Constantinople. It is possible for me to win this by myself (if a certain gate had not been unlocked on that final Ottoman assault, the Emperor would have repelled them, and neither the army nor the officers would have had the moral to continue the siege, plus Turkish losses would have been horrid). However, I would prefer a more realistic approach, that is Hungary, Venice, and/or the Holy Roman Empire are able to send aid in time to lift the siege (Venice historically sent a small force (I believe 700 soldiers) that arrived too late). These things said, I will need at least a moderator and someone to RP the Turks (80,000 men strong, supported by extensive amounts of artillery created by Orban, and a small fleet). I have some 7,000 soldiers, around half of which are foreign (many Italians), the other part Greek. There are some 60,000 citizens and refugees within the city to help defend as well. I have a few warships, which would be aided by foreign warships, mainly Italian. Venice could get the aid there earlier if it wishes, other people who volunteered help can send help, and if anyone wishes to RP a relief force from Hungary or the Holy Roman Empire (more likely Hungary), they are free to do so. Please state your intentions. Edited by Sedulius, Nov 9 2009, 02:29 PM.
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| Telosan | Nov 9 2009, 03:14 PM Post #2 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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You want to wait until you have time, and Draxis is working on getting his friend in to play the Turks, so it works out. If someone is going to play the Turks, I think they should at least be here for the siege. IRL, the late arrival of Venice's troops can be attributed to internal problems. The Doge didn't have the proper grip on the country and was not well liked. I plan on having that changed in my history, giving him a victory where he had a defeat and boosting his popularity, reducing internal strife. Orders would be carried out with less hesitation and Venice could arrive earlier. To stick with a realistic RP, I will not be spending more than 3-500 IC. How would you have the defenses work? Huesca, are there any rules for walls? Siege weapons must hit them x number of times to destroy them or something? |
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| Union | Nov 9 2009, 03:26 PM Post #3 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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I have not yet worked out a system. This would require the moderator and team members to improvise. This is because the system is intended to be much larger scale than a single seige. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2009, 07:04 PM Post #4 |
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Deleted User
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I can RP the Turks or I can moderate. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 15 2009, 03:56 PM Post #5 |
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Deleted User
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Ok, I just finished watching the Kingdom of Heaven, so Sed, I would be happy to work with you to create a system for a siege. |
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| Sedulius | Nov 17 2009, 06:03 PM Post #6 |
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Field Marshal
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Sorry if I'm not responding hastily. I'll need time for this. We need some time to see what develops anyways. If someone becomes the Turks, then we're good. We also need to see if Huesca himself wants to make any specific siege rules. That said... well more on this later. |
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| Draxis | Nov 17 2009, 07:00 PM Post #7 |
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Captain
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TC has the turks on the European side of the Bosporus. So we have Turks. |
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| Union | Nov 17 2009, 07:21 PM Post #8 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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Make your own rules, boys. |
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| Telosan | Nov 17 2009, 09:52 PM Post #9 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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A break in the Ottoman empire could most realisticaly be explained by a resurgent Byzantine Empire acting as a wedge between east and west. TC's empire really shouldn't be possible until after the siege, but no one says he can't play "post-Constantinople" or something. |
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| Draxis | Nov 18 2009, 12:36 AM Post #10 |
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Captain
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I just stated the fact that TC switched over to the Ottomans, and remember he has 100 years of history to play with so he can probably make it possible. And who knows maybe his first target won't be Constantinople... maybe it'll be the Venetians. :lol: |
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| Al Araam | Nov 18 2009, 02:16 AM Post #11 |
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity
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The Venetians are reasonably heavily invested in the war against the Hafsids. This war system does make that kind of invasion a possibility, so it seems to me it's always prudent to expect a knife in the back. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Nov 18 2009, 10:27 AM Post #12 |
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Science and Industry
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I'm playing pre-Constantinople. Note that in RL history, the Ottomans conquered Bulgaria 60 years before they conquered Constantinople. That is to say there was a substantial encircling action against Constantinople before the city finally fell. |
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| Sedulius | Nov 18 2009, 11:15 AM Post #13 |
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Field Marshal
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Which is why it seemed to be such a hopeless situation without the help of others. Though it was not so helpless as always thought. As I said, if those gates don't get opened, I just need to worry about breaches, which get repaired quickly enough when the Turks don't assault. I suppose we should pretty much RP this. You in agreement, TC? |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Nov 18 2009, 12:10 PM Post #14 |
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Science and Industry
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Well, I'll be aiming to take over Constantinople so if that can be accomodated by RP then I'm all for it. |
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| Sedulius | Nov 18 2009, 02:05 PM Post #15 |
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Field Marshal
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Ah, I suppose that is the point of contention then. I of course wish to keep it, while you, as the Ottomans, would naturally want to take it. So you do intend to take it if you can? |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Nov 18 2009, 03:08 PM Post #16 |
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Science and Industry
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I do. I'm not expecting or demanding to be successful at it, since our forum's Christendom will probably act in a more coordinated fashion than what transpired historically, but that is indeed my intent.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Nov 18 2009, 03:09 PM.
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| Telosan | Nov 18 2009, 03:13 PM Post #17 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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If TC's Turks have been seperate from the eastern Turks for some time, then it is probably possible that Venice could be friendly with the eastern Turks. It's only the western ones who are giving the Venetians a headache. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Nov 18 2009, 03:18 PM Post #18 |
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Science and Industry
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I'm not sure yet if I'm separate from the eastern Turks. We'll see what the E. Turk player decides. The two of us might be playing as one national entity - which is what I'm hoping of course, since that would make the siege easier for the Turk side :lol: |
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| Sedulius | Jan 22 2010, 08:28 PM Post #19 |
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Field Marshal
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Okay. If there are Turks willing to invade, players willing to assist, and a moderator willing to moderate, I'm willing to get into this. |
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| Telosan | Jan 22 2010, 10:14 PM Post #20 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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OOC: I think we've waited enough for Draxis' friend. Maybe if TC will RP the southern Ottomans, the falure to take Constantinople can be used as the explanation for the country's breakup. |
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| Sedulius | Jan 23 2010, 02:04 PM Post #21 |
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Field Marshal
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Now, since we don't exactly have a refined war system (especially in the case of sieges), how are we going to do this? |
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| Telosan | Jan 23 2010, 03:19 PM Post #22 |
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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It's in progress. The war system should cover more aspects and be more understandable. Sieges, I imagine, would play out on a smaller, city map. The city would have walls with a set amount of "health" on each hex the wall crosses through. The health would probably be represented as 20 hits to destroy, or something along those lines. |
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| Abnar | Jan 24 2010, 12:20 PM Post #23 |
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
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Alternatively, the defenders in a wall section can only be attacked from outside by ranged weapons. When all the defenders are dead, the wall is considered breeched and units can move through (ladders and whatnot). Once the wall is breeched, if it's held for X number of turns, it's considered destroyed. |
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| Sedulius | Jan 24 2010, 07:16 PM Post #24 |
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Field Marshal
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I realize we're going for a somewhat simple system, but it doesn't exactly do justice to the Siege of Constantinople. I think we should have different wall strengths. Considering that the Byzantines rebuilt the breaches as the Turks made them and defeated all the waves meant for attrition, I'd say they had damn good walls (it was being bombarded by cannon and giant bombards, yet still standing up. It was firing back with its own smaller, breach-loading cannons). The only reason the Turks took Constantinople is on the final day they assaulted with their entire force. They made one breach in the wall, which after the Venetian commander there was killed his forces fled, but even then were it not for the main gate in the walls opening for some reason, the Turks could not have taken the city. Not trying to undermine the system, I'm just saying there's much more to be considered in a siege. |
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| East Anarx | Jan 24 2010, 08:03 PM Post #25 |
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Anarchitect
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Is there any reason we all have to use the same system? I mean, as long as all the parties to a war decide to use the same system for that war, then they can decide on as simple or complex a system as they want and try it out. The more we experiment with different systems, the more likely we'll find one that works. |
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11:29 AM Jul 13