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Glenn Beck, libertarianism, etc...
Topic Started: Oct 19 2009, 09:23 PM (227 Views)
Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
I'm trying to find information on Glenn Beck that actually defines him in terms of libertarianism, American politics, and general conservatism. It's a little weird considering a lot of the sites I've found via Google have been subjective (read: people shouting back and forth about Fox News being credible or not).

I've found two longish reads that I personally cannot vouch for:

Austro-Libertarian Review of Glenn Beck's "Common Sense"

Open Letter to Glenn Beck on Libertarianism

In the later, Glenn's described as more libertine than libertarian due to his views on actual liberty. If anything, from what I've read, he's the sort who looks for the contrasts on the fringes, and paints them with his own contextual claims that makes his own points seem true, truth or not.

From various critiques that I've read, I've also noticed that he is very against environmentalism and social justice as it is a Marxist ideology. I can see that, but (and this may just be because my curiosity in him is relatively new) I feel like his argument against social justice is simply "It's Marxist, so screw off". Perhaps my position is more of a compromise between libertarianism and what he quickly calls "Marxism", but it seems as though government-sponsored social justice has its place, as people have a tendency to go hungry and starve under the American model of classless mobility. "The poor are poor because they don't try" may be mostly true, but it doesn't put food in the mouths of those with little or no choice but to live in poverty. I know, this isn't libertarian, but it's also a critique of pre-New Deal life. Idealism vs realism vs practicality, they're hard to balance. Beck's world seems too shaky, but then why do people follow him like Jesus?

One of my roommates at school has this strange fixation on him. He's a cool guy until he starts talking about how he's a libertarian out of nowhere. Personally I enjoy getting a laugh out of his struggle to define libertarianism, which makes him just rage-quit the conversation.

So, anyway... does anyone have a more detailed opinion? Or know where to find a credible one? I'd like to come to some kind of non-ineffable conclusion on this guy.
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Tristan da Cunha
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You seek a detailed opinion but I have a less detailed opinion, for now. Not really an opinion, but a series of disjointed and amorphous comments.

Ulgania
 
If anything, from what I've read, he's the sort who looks for the contrasts on the fringes, and paints them with his own contextual claims that makes his own points seem true, truth or not.

That sounds generally correct... a lot of what Glenn Beck says is a deprecated, degenerated form of "koan". He is an effective anti-Obama agitpropist and that counts for something, even if he may be full of shit on other occasions. "Even the broken clock is right twice a day"

Ulgania
 
Perhaps my position is more of a compromise between libertarianism and what he quickly calls "Marxism"


As is his position.

Ulgania
 
but it seems as though government-sponsored social justice has its place, as people have a tendency to go hungry and starve under the American model of classless mobility. ... pre-New Deal life


There has never been starvation in the history of the US, even during the Dust Bowl and before the New Deal.

Anyways I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking if Glenn Beck is a libertarian? Obviously he's not a libertarian because he supports various militarist policies.

He wants to dismantle the government health care system and nuke Iran. He could be called a Barry Goldwater-type Republican. There's your non-ineffable conclusion on the guy.
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Porcu
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"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."

I wrote off Glenn Beck when he was still at CNN. Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. may have some legitimate points and interesting takes on various political issues, but because of the way they garner viewers/listeners I can't take them seriously for very long.

I realize I did not contribute to the thread in the manner you requested, and I apologize, but those readings were interesting and I'm interested in seeing what everyone else can dig up.
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Abnar
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
I murder the first person who says that Beck is a libertarian. He's no such thing. He's quite neo-conservative, as are most right-wing commentators.

Seriously, putting Glenn Beck in the same political category as me... the nerve. :P

EDIT: I should qualify. He claims to be a libertarian, but nothing he says or does shows any evidence of libertarianism other than those things which also fall under neo-con.
Edited by Abnar, Oct 19 2009, 11:19 PM.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Abnar
Oct 19 2009, 11:15 PM
I murder the first person who says that Beck is a libertarian. He's no such thing. He's quite neo-conservative, as are most right-wing commentators.
Damn, why didn't I think of that!

Abnar is right, Glenn Beck is a neoconservative. Simple.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Oct 19 2009, 11:26 PM.
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Abnar
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
Tristan da Cunha
Oct 19 2009, 11:21 PM
Abnar
Oct 19 2009, 11:15 PM
I murder the first person who says that Beck is a libertarian. He's no such thing. He's quite neo-conservative, as are most right-wing commentators.
Damn, why didn't I think of that!

Abnar is right, Glenn Beck is a neoconservative.
Which, incidentally, gives him very little in common with true conservatives. Neo-con is an... interesting philosophy. According to Wikipedia:
Quote:
 
Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States of America, and which supports using American economic and military power to bring liberalism, democracy, and human rights to other countries. In economics, unlike traditionalist conservatives, neoconservatives are generally comfortable with a welfare state; and, while rhetorically supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes.

Interventionism and hypocrisy: the two marks of a neo-conservative. Food for thought: Which non-George W. Bush president is reneging on his promises and sticking his nose where it doesn't need to be? That's right, Obama is a neo-conservative, too.

The first reading in the OP actually provides a pretty good definition of liberty as libertarians view it, which is, and E will tell you, pretty similar to an anarchist's definition, minus the part about delegating to the government.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
http://www.infowars.com/glenn-beck-is-a-neocon-not-a-libertarian/

Um...

My roommate may hit me in the face. I can't wait to show him this (but it would only be for the sake of trolling him)! Also not to steal what you guys say, but I'm agreeing with your assertions. I like the neo-conservative argument. It's fitting and rather discussable. I'll be doing further research though.

I actually found what I was reading in those articles to be somewhat interesting, as well. Thus posting those over some incredibly badly written blogs that think that they're the authority on Beck.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Ulgania
Oct 19 2009, 11:49 PM
http://www.infowars.com/glenn-beck-is-a-neocon-not-a-libertarian/

Um...

My roommate may hit me in the face. I can't wait to show him this (but it would only be for the sake of trolling him)! Also not to steal what you guys say, but I'm agreeing with your assertions. I like the neo-conservative argument. It's fitting and rather discussable. I'll be doing further research though.

I actually found what I was reading in those articles to be somewhat interesting, as well. Thus posting those over some incredibly badly written blogs that think that they're the authority on Beck.
Of course. Mises.org and LRC blog always have extremely well written entries, even if one disagrees with them on occasion.
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flumes
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
I like Glenn Beck. No, I love Glenn Beck. Common Sense...

I consider myself a libertarian.

I like Ron Paul. No, I love Ron Paul. Common Sense...

...

It's that simple to me (if anyone gets my point). Beck and Paul differ on many issues... But both, in general, get "it". If you want to get philosophical, Beck may not technically be a libertarian, but he is close enough. Let me put it on the other end of the spectrum... Obama... He may not technically be a socialist, but he is close enough.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Policywise Obama and Glen Beck are rather close to each other.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Glenn Beck is only libertarian with regards to big government. He bashed Bush just as much as he is now bashing Obama. He compares favorably to John Stossel who I think you can honestly say is a true political libertarian. I would say Beck is more of a Ronald Reagan Republican/conservative than a Goldwater neoconservative. He believes people should keep most of their money. He would like to see the Federal Government concentrate more on protecting us from foreign or home-grown terrorists and less on National Health Care. He dislikes the corruption and hypocracy in Washington.

In many ways he projects many views I agree with.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Beck seems to getting a lot attention lately, I've noticed. Not just here, but on other sites I read. Did he do something?
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Tristan da Cunha
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Fame is cyclical, like the menstrual cycle.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
He led the charge to get Acorn kicked out of Washington (have some of their federal funding removed for giving financil and tax advise to a hooker and her pimp that wanted to open a berothel and bring in 13 yr old illegal aliens from central America to work there).

He led the charge to have a full-fledged Marxist (who has advocated the overthrow of the US Government) removed as "Green Tzar" of the Obama administration.

He is leading the charge to get Charlie Rangle removed as head of the Ways and Means committee (the committee that writes the tax code) for not paying taxes for the last five years and not reporting several million dollars in income.

He has been revealing the inner workings of the Obama administration and its connections to various other nefarious groups (one of the Tzars wants dogs to be able to have lawyers, another supported forcing abortions on poor people as a means of population control).
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Politics is unlibertarian. One cannot achieve libertarian ends through political, (statist,) means. Fuck "political libertarians!"
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Esternarx
Oct 20 2009, 11:21 AM
Politics is unlibertarian. One cannot achieve libertarian ends through political, (statist,) means. Fuck "political libertarians!"
I use the term "political libertartian" to distinguish from the "true libertarian". No insult meant; and watch your mouth, young man, I heard all those f-bombs on the youtube video!
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Tristan da Cunha
Oct 20 2009, 10:06 AM
Fame is cyclical, like the menstrual cycle.
Damn it TC.

Can you and E stop posting things I want to sig?
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

There comes a time when even the most rational and prudent among us must run up the black flag and commence dropping f-bombs on the illegitimacy and bullshit of the state! Now is that time. Not only are they undeserving of our respect, they are utterly undeserving of our cooperation.

The court system here in New Hampshire is overloaded and underfunded. We intend to sue them for everything from wrongful arrest to criminal kidnapping. Some of it will work and some of it won't. But all together it will clog the system, and since we choose jail time over paying fines, it costs them more money to punish us than we would lose if we paid the fines. So, essentially, the state gets to do nothing but react with force and begin caging peaceful people, revealing themselves as the violent thugs they are. Besides the open civil disobedience we do, the counter-economy is growing as well. Property tax revolt and outright secession by communities and towns is next.

There is no way to liberty. Liberty is the way. Freedom of speech, just like freedom of anything else, only exists when it is being exercised! So, no, I will not watch my mouth, old man.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
So, uh, you are going to choose going to jail over paying a fine? When is your hearing? We might need to pull an Emerson/Thereau deal here.

P.S. Patrick Henry did NOT say, "Give me fucking liberty, or give me fucking death!" I doubt it would have been as memorable if he had.


Wippersnapper.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

I am considering using my freedom to ban users for excessive profanity.

Your freedom of speech isn't being called into question here E. No-one is saying you can't swear. But it's unpleasant to swear for no reason. And I will react to unpleasantness.

You're a reasonable fellow. If someone was swearing a lot in their support of the state it would make you uncomfortable. All I'm asking for is a mutual respect between everyone who uses this board.

If "freedom" to be a jackass is more important to you, so be it. (Not calling you a jackass, and I realise your banter with NH was probably supposed to be light hearted - I just don't want this turning into a problem.)

****

The State wastes money and oppresses people every day. You really think that making them waste money to oppress you is going to make a difference?
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East Anarx
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Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 20 2009, 12:51 PM
I am considering using my freedom to ban users for excessive profanity.

Your freedom of speech isn't being called into question here E. No-one is saying you can't swear. But it's unpleasant to swear for no reason. And I will react to unpleasantness.

You're a reasonable fellow. If someone was swearing a lot in their support of the state it would make you uncomfortable. All I'm asking for is a mutual respect between everyone who uses this board.

If "freedom" to be a jackass is more important to you, so be it. (Not calling you a jackass, and I realise your banter with NH was probably supposed to be light hearted - I just don't want this turning into a problem.)
Point taken, and I apologize for any unpleasantness I may have caused you in attempting to demonstrate my point.

Nag
 
The State wastes money and oppresses people every day. You really think that making them waste money to oppress you is going to make a difference?
More so than paying them would, and as the economic crisis deepens, our ability to influence their actions by making it annoyingly expensive to coerce us grows exponentially.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Esternarx
Oct 20 2009, 01:56 PM
Nag
 
The State wastes money and oppresses people every day. You really think that making them waste money to oppress you is going to make a difference?
More so than paying them would, and as the economic crisis deepens, our ability to influence their actions by making it annoyingly expensive to coerce us grows exponentially.
Well, good luck I suppose.

If you get locked up I'll bake you my famous File and Chisel Lemon Drizzle Cake.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
Glenn Beck would disagree with this.

BUT HOW?
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