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Evan has been kidnapped.
Topic Started: Oct 18 2009, 10:57 PM (1,697 Views)
Tristan da Cunha
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Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 19 2009, 04:18 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Oct 19 2009, 03:44 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 19 2009, 02:51 PM
Also, weed does not cure cancer. THC (like most other poisons) slows the rate of tumour growth. Tumours are living cells that multiply rapidly - anything bad for you is worse for a tumour (this is kinda the foundation of all cancer treatments). Of course, THC is a relatively safe compound (especially when compared to other tumour inhibitors). But slowing the rate that tumours grow and kill you isn't the same as healing you. Especially if you smoke it - then you're encouraging new tumour growth.
According to wikipedia (and various scientific journals)...

In a certain brain cancer THC not only inhibits tumor growth but also kills tumor cells while leaving healthy cells intact. Not sure if THC alone could beat back the cancer to remission though, but then again few if any cancer treatments can singlehandedly "cure" cancer without being in combination with other therapies.

Of course, in this study the THC was a purified, liquid solution pumped directly into the skull in the vicinity of the tumor by a calibrated pump machine.

Smoking marijuana doesn't appear to have an effect either way on the primary tumor, though it doesn't promote cancer either (including lung cancer). Even the Muslims like the cannabis, and the Muslims hate alcohol so you know they have the Nixon in China credibility factor going on. Look to Allah for guidance.
THC is very safe, relatively speaking. To go from pleasant stimulus to fatal overdose, you need to up the dosage by something like 10,000% (don't quote me on that - go look it up, it's something ridiculous - might be 100,000%). Plus brain cells don't multiply much while tumours do. So it's not really surprising that if you inject whooping great quantities of it into the human brain it kills off tumours while leaving healthy cells intact.

As for cannabis not causing cancer. It does. Here's a couple of links I pulled off google:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/141891.stm
http://www.ukcia.org/research/AdverseEffectsOfCannabis.pdf
While it's intuitive that inhaling aerosolized ash in any type of smoke delivery system is corrosive to lung tissue and could promote cancer, there are other studies that show THC biochemically "offsets" carcinogenic effects of the smoked ash. This study finds "no lung cancer-marijuana link".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html

This study shows marijuana lowers the risk of head and neck cancer:

http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/2/8/759

It's possible that marijuana, like alcohol (or indeed nicotine), promotes some particular types of cancers while suppressing other particular types. Not all cancers are the same after all. "Cancer" is a very vague word when used without modifiers, bordering on useless.

Also I've invented a new weapon of assassination - poison ivy disguised as a cigarette or cigar.
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Al Araam
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Huh. How much poison ivy would you have to inhale for it to be lethal?
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Tristan da Cunha
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Hmm good question. I don't know, I'm not sure there has been a study to quantify that yet. Hopefully (for my instrument of assassination) a modest amount will be sufficient to inflame and constrict the delicate tissue of the windpipes resulting in strangulation. Though it might just cause severe, painful inconvenience. *Back to the drawing board*
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Oct 19 2009, 05:26 PM.
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New Harumf
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Tristan da Cunha
Oct 19 2009, 05:21 PM
Hmm good question. I don't know, I'm not sure there has been a study to quantify that yet. Hopefully (for my instrument of assassination) a modest amount will be sufficient to inflame and constrict the delicate tissue of the windpipes resulting in strangulation. Though it might just cause severe, painful inconvenience. *Back to the drawing board*
Actually, from what I have read, gathering and burning poison ivy vines in a fire can be very, very bad. It might not take much. Any volunteers to test this theory out??
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Abnar
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
I would imagine that any significant inflammation or scarring of the more delicate parts of your lungs could be fatal indeed, and a poison ivy cigar would probably be a more effective delivery system than just fumes from a campfire. I've heard of people getting screwed up from breathing the fumes, gonna see if I can find a case of death that wasn't a freakish allergic reaction or something.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
New Harumf
Oct 19 2009, 05:48 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Oct 19 2009, 05:21 PM
Hmm good question. I don't know, I'm not sure there has been a study to quantify that yet. Hopefully (for my instrument of assassination) a modest amount will be sufficient to inflame and constrict the delicate tissue of the windpipes resulting in strangulation. Though it might just cause severe, painful inconvenience. *Back to the drawing board*
Actually, from what I have read, gathering and burning poison ivy vines in a fire can be very, very bad. It might not take much. Any volunteers to test this theory out??
I still have Chuck Taylor tied up out back...
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East Anarx
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Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 19 2009, 02:51 PM
I forget, did the black civil rights movement hate all the cops - showing nothing but unwashed disrespect or did they just hate the crooked, racist, power-hungry cops?

Because these anarchists seem to hate all cops. Or do they just hate the crooked, racist, power-hungry cops - it's hard to tell? :P

I support civil disobedience. If you want a law changed you set forth a proposal to change the law, you go through the proper channels and you exercise the freedom you wish you had. And if you get caught exercising the freedom you don't have then you face the penalty of law - but you face it like a man and take the punishment you brought down on yourself.

I especially liked the part that was all like "you can boo but don't stop them" - now that's peaceful protest.

So... I tip my hat to you E. I don't tip my hat to you for reasons you support or agree with, but I tip my hat none-the-less. Good show old sport, good show.

Kudos aside: seriously guys, don't smoke weed around little kids. That's messed up. Show some responsibility.


Also, weed does not cure cancer. THC (like most other poisons) slows the rate of tumour growth. Tumours are living cells that multiply rapidly - anything bad for you is worse for a tumour (this is kinda the foundation of all cancer treatments). Of course, THC is a relatively safe compound (especially when compared to other tumour inhibitors). But slowing the rate that tumours grow and kill you isn't the same as healing you. Especially if you smoke it - then you're encouraging new tumour growth.
Cops work for, and are paid, (with money that was extracted from people through coercion,) by, an organization claiming to represent and rule over me without my consent. This organization, the state, is not only crooked, racist, and power-hungry to the core, it is downright criminal. Because they belong to this criminal organization, they are individuals for which I have nothing but contempt and pity. It is clear to anyone not totally brainwashed by statist propaganda that these pigs aggressed against me. They do not promote peace or justice, because even when they are helping people they are doing it with stolen money. I don't want them to change any of their fucking laws. All I want them to do is to leave me and my friends (and all peaceful people for that matter) alone, because we are harming no one. I would voluntarily support and pay for "cops" that did not use violence against peaceful people, and instead actually protected people from criminals, rather than act like criminals themselves.

As for smoking around little kids, they were not getting any second-hand smoke. They were a good thirty feet away, so at most they got a whiff, but they certainly were not getting high from it. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with being open and honest with kids about the reasons why people choose, and choose not, to smoke cannabis. People choose to smoke weed. Thugs calling themselves "police officers" shackle, abduct, and put people in cages for doing it. Why try to hide things from people just because they are of a certain age? How is that, in any way, responsible?

As for the health risks associated with smoking, I much prefer ingesting and vaporizing cannabis to smoking it, but smoking is much easier and less expensive in the short term. I guess that says something about my time preference. Either way, I plan to stop smoking in the future and only vaping and eating it.

As for peaceful protests in the future, some so-called "anarchists" in the movement want us to hug cops and tell them that we forgive them for hurting us. Clearly, some of these "anarchists," far from hating all the cops, actually love them. But I say fuck that shit, next time they try to kidnap one of us we're going to group hug the person they're trying to kidnap. Let's see them try to arrest an entire crowd of hugging anarchists. That's solidarity, dammit.

Huesca
 
This is where you guys were smoking: http://www.pumpkinfestival.org/index.html

Awesome.

Yeah, you're all free-thinking badasses, smoking around kids and shit, eh? Not even your own protest, you went to a public event hosted by the city and decided thats the perfect time for your little dance.

Fuckers need a little jail time.
Actually, it was our own protest. The one we hold every day at 4:20. We moved from our usual spot, in Central Square, out of respect for the pumpkin fest's long-standing claim to use it for the duration of weekend. Instead, we smoked in front of city hall, across the street. In addition, we brought pumpkins and were in fact participants in pumpkin fest.

Saying things about me and my friends "needing" to spend time in a cage is deeply disturbing to me. Do you think that kidnapping and caging peaceful people is ethical, or even practical by any standards? And you say you smoke weed? What are you, some kind of self-hating stoner? Have some pride in your actions, because your actions reflect the desires of your inner self. I hope the cops never bust you for weed and throw you in jail.

Putting peaceful human beings in cages is wrong!

Atticus
 
Of course not. That is the job of the Police to detain those who are breaking the law.

The point is that you and your little friends are nothing but assholes who mock the very people who keep you safe at night.
Not only do they not keep me safe at night, (the locks on my doors and the guns behind them do that,) but they are in fact the greatest threat to my safety. Also, the same tired excuse of "they're just doing their jobs" is bullshit and I'm calling you on it. The nazis were just doing their job.

And you're nothing but a fucking hypocrite for advocating violence against other people without accepting the responsibility of actually using violence yourself.

TC
 
That wasn't an apologia, that was an attempt at ultra-dry humor.
I have to admit though, Keene is not the ideal place for the Free State Project. The town basically subsists off the local state college. It's not a kosher place. Anarchists should not be ideological hangers-on subsisting off the artificial economic activity "stimulated" by the education-industrial complex.
Keene is the ideal place for anarchists to gather because anarchists are already gathering here and gaining ground against the state. Fuck the Free State Project. "Free State" is an oxymoron. Keene's college students tend to be particularly fertile, at least physically, if not always intellectually. Also, anarchists like to party, and Keene is a party town. Besides, before long, the students will seize the means of their education back from the state-university system and turn those facilities towards more productive purposes.

It's only a matter of time. We @re Winning!!
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Tristan da Cunha
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Keene's a party town like Colorado Springs or Washington DC is a party town...cause there's a trough of government money keeping the pigs and the contractors fat, not that there's actually productive economic activity going on in the vicinity.

This world needs less partying and more labor. Labor as in growing corn; real Amish shit. :lol:

Revolution. It's srs business.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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Esternarx
Oct 20 2009, 01:59 AM
I don't want them to change any of their fucking laws. All I want them to do is to leave me and my friends (and all peaceful people for that matter) alone, because we are harming no one.
You don't support criminal behaviour. You believe that behaviour is only criminal if you're hurting someone.

That's not what society believes. If you want freedom, you have to show that you are right to the majority.

And that means getting the laws changed. That means setting a precedent from within the system to allow you to cede from it.

You claim to have a higher code of justice. And that's very noble. So does the Muslim extremist who murders people. So does the middle aged man who sleeps with pre-teen girls.

Society fears you the same way it fears killers and rapists. If you don't want to be treated like a killer or a rapist then you need to show that you're different. You need to show that you're a responsible citizen and not a dangerous criminal. The best weapon you have in your fight for freedom is to show people that anarchists aren't this generation's weed smoking hippy - but the people who understand what justice is.

Or you can keep acting like a criminal and getting indignant when we treat you like a criminal. Your call E, your call.

Quote:
 
As for smoking around little kids, they were not getting any second-hand smoke.

Exposure of even as little as half an hour to second hand smoke can damage the health of an adult. Children are more vulnerable. Doesn't look like they were thirty feet away to me.

Quote:
 
But I say fuck that shit, next time they try to kidnap one of us we're going to group hug the person they're trying to kidnap. Let's see them try to arrest an entire crowd of hugging anarchists. That's solidarity, dammit.

So long as it goes on YouTube.

Quote:
 
Saying things about me and my friends "needing" to spend time in a cage is deeply disturbing to me. Do you think that kidnapping and caging peaceful people is ethical, or even practical by any standards?

I didn't set the bomb! I only designed it!
I didn't make the kiddy porn! I only watched it!
I didn't shoot the cop! I just paid for the gun that did when I brought my dime bag!

Quote:
 
Also, the same tired excuse of "they're just doing their jobs" is bullshit and I'm calling you on it. The nazis were just doing their job.

Lets say America gets the shit kicked out of it in a war. The USA is reduced to a third world nation. A new leader is elected who makes the country strong again.

You have the choice of doing your job (make your country better and put food on the table for your family) or getting hung (for treason). What do you chose?

Quote:
 
And you're nothing but a fucking hypocrite for advocating violence against other people without accepting the responsibility of actually using violence yourself.

Again, realise this isn't directed at me but I advocate the use of violence against people. If someone is being an asshole the fastest way of correcting them is a smack in the mouth - even if they're a "peaceful" asshole. I don't share your belief that a man's body is his ultimate sacrosanct inalienable sovereign right. I believe that all actions have consequences. So I support the appropriate use of violence - whether it's a much needed punch or a night in a cage.

Quote:
 
Also, anarchists like to party

Damn it E, I want to sig that!

****

I own a house. Yay me.
Got it for a bargain - traded it with an idiot for some magic beans and a cow.
I sub-let the rooms in that house. Yay! Tenants!
The tenants have a tenancy agreement with me - they pay me rent, obey the rules I set forth and I keep the house in good working order, pay the bills and so forth.
Two of my tenants have a baby. Do I kick the child out on it's ass? Of course not!

Child grows up.
Child doesn't like the rules of my house ("but why can't I knock down this wall! It's not like it'll hurt anyone").
Child doesn't want to pay rent.
But Child doesn't want to move out.
People try to explain that if you don't pay rent then how will the bills get paid. Child doesn't care. Child says they don't use "gas" and they can generate their own electricity.
Child claims that my demands for rent are unreasonable oppression.
Child refuses to leave my house. The land that I own.

I drag Child out and lock them in a cage.
Child cries foul.

The world keeps turning. I get new tenants.
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Union
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Quote:
 
Actually, it was our own protest. The one we hold every day at 4:20. We moved from our usual spot, in Central Square, out of respect for the pumpkin fest's long-standing claim to use it for the duration of weekend. Instead, we smoked in front of city hall, across the street. In addition, we brought pumpkins and were in fact participants in pumpkin fest.


More sympathy to you then, though holding off for a single day would have been best, y'know.

Quote:
 
Saying things about me and my friends "needing" to spend time in a cage is deeply disturbing to me.


It is hyperbole. I do not think marijuana should be illegal, but I do agree with minimum standards of decency - the same reason I oppose public drinking or drunkenness. Is that necessary?

Quote:
 
Do you think that kidnapping and caging peaceful people is ethical, or even practical by any standards?


Not at all. But they won't let us flog folks anymore, although it would work.

How would you punish a wrong-doer, E? There is always the murderer - in your anarchist society, how do you punish them? Or am I to expect all murderers run free?
Quote:
 

And you say you smoke weed? What are you, some kind of self-hating stoner? Have some pride in your actions, because your actions reflect the desires of your inner self.


I do not smoke weed for any other purpose than getting high. I do not drink for any other purpose than to get drunk. I do not fuck for any other purpose than to cum.

I do not pretend otherwise. I know its illegal. I do it anyway, not out of protest, but because it makes me feel good and I see no harm in it. If I were to be busted, and I have been, I would not take it personally - the officer is doing his job, even if I disagree with it. I act to change the law by voting for pro-marijuana candidates, when possible, and signing petitions on marijuana use. I do not blow smoke into a cops face and act surprised or outraged when they do their jobs and arrest me.

Quote:
 
Putting peaceful human beings in cages is wrong!


Sometimes it is necessary, although drug prohibitions is a stupid policy long proven ineffective.
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East Anarx
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No, it doesn't mean getting laws changed. It means changing the laws ourselves. I have just as much authority to declare something legal or illegal as the assholes that call themselves legislators. Acting like we're free is the only way to become free. What I am doing when I peacefully and openly break unjust laws is showing people that the state is clearly acting criminally in its actions towards me. The law is wrong, so I break it. They dragged me away in chains for possessing a plant for fuck's sake! I point out the injustice, the criminality, and the immorality of the state all the time.

You say I need to stop acting like a criminal? Tell me Nag, how you justify possession of a plant as being criminal? Do you understand what justice is, Nag?

We made it very clear in advance what we were doing and no kids, or anyone else for that matter, were forced to inhale any of our secondhand smoke.

Yes, the revolution will be on YouTube.

Bombs, like guns, are just tools for making holes in things that need holes in them. Currently, the Westmoreland jail needs a nice big hole in the side of it.

I like how the inability of an anarchist to explain how anarchy would perfectly deal with a particular problem like child pornography is taken for granted as proof that anarchy does not work, whereas no single problem that states handle badly, child pornography among them, is taken as proof that states do not work. Curious double standards...

The odds are much higher that I grew the plant myself, or bought it from a local farmer. And if a cop dies, I'm certainly not gonna cry over it.

Your hypothetical third world USA situation implies that a coercive ruler can help society, a claim I reject. I also reject your false dichotomy and choose liberty instead.

I support the appropriate use of violence, too. Violence in defense is appropriate. Violence in aggression is not.

---

It's not your house, it was partially paid for by extracting my labor coercively and I homesteaded a part you abandoned and worked outside your system as much as possible. Absolutist land claims in perpetuity, ownership far beyond that of occupancy and use, cannot be justified. You have systematically restricted my choices and I am tired of your institution. You have no legitimate authority over me, and not only will I point out the injustices you force upon me, but I will stand and fight with my brothers in defiance of your tyranny over us.
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East Anarx
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Evil is never necessary.

The supremely moral is the supremely practical.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Quote:
 
The odds are much higher that I grew the plant myself, or bought it from a local farmer. And if a cop dies, I'm certainly not gonna cry over it.

Really? Odds are, huh?

Tell me then E, where do you get your weed?

Really?

Thought so. :rolleyes:

****

"It's not your house, it was partially paid for by extracting my labor coercively"

No, it's my house. Nations were founded by groups of individuals who laid claim to a land. These groups were called States. This land became Nations. Coercive labour had nothing to do with it.

"I homesteaded a part you abandoned"

Except the part where that land wasn't abandoned, but connected to national infrastructure and was clearly policed. It's like if someone started squatting in your basement and claimed it was abandoned.

"Absolutist land claims in perpetuity, ownership far beyond that of occupancy and use, cannot be justified."

So I cannot own land forever? I can own my body forever, right? If I buy a car do I have to give it up when an anarchist says I'm infringing his right to use my car? Can I own my house forever? Can I give my house to my children? Can they give it to their children?

Ownership beyond occupancy cannot be justified? So, what, everyone with a spare bedroom is oppressing you?

"You have systematically restricted my choices and I am tired of your institution."

You are living on my land. My land, my rules. Don't like it? Move.

Or, alternatively, because I'm an understanding and civil land lord, raise your grievance with me in an intelligent manner and convince me round to your way of thinking.
Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Oct 20 2009, 01:59 PM.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

I'll tell you the same thing I told the pig trying to process me, "I'll consider answering your questions when you answer mine."
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Esternarx
Oct 20 2009, 02:07 PM
I'll tell you the same thing I told the pig trying to process me, "I'll consider answering your questions when you answer mine."
I assuming you're referring to:

"You say I need to stop acting like a criminal? Tell me Nag, how you justify possession of a plant as being criminal? Do you understand what justice is, Nag?"

You are breaking with the acceptable code of laws set forth by your community. You are flaunting that code of laws. This behaviour is criminal. Regardless of whether it is criminal by your code or not, it is criminal by the code of society. I made it quiet clear in my original post that it's not about what you think is right and wrong, it's not about what your next door neighbour things is right or wrong, it's not about what Charles Manson thinks is right or wrong, it's not about what god thinks is right or wrong, it's about what society thinks is right or wrong.

If you oppose society, society will oppose you.

Doesn't matter if you are the correct minority and the rest of us are wrong. Society has the power. Society makes the rules. We say it's criminal so change our minds or face our wrath.

If you don't act how society expects a criminal to act, if you use reason in your arguments rather than belligerence you can make society (and thus the State) accept your way of life.

To address how possessing a plant makes you criminal - you're supporting a system that is in opposition to society. Now it's well and good to oppose the State, but if you oppose the State from outside of the State you make unsavoury bedfellows (I'm using State to mean The US Government here). And the drug dealer who you purchased your weed from will use that money to further his anti-social goals. Which might well have no negative effect on society, or it could lead to innocent people being killed. You don't know. And there's no accountability in your counter-economy.

Justice is the rule of law. Lex Talionis. Punishment fitting the crime.
Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Oct 20 2009, 02:30 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 20 2009, 02:29 PM
Justice is the rule of law. Lex Talionis. Punishment fitting the crime.
Sigged.
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Al Araam
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Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 20 2009, 01:57 PM
Ownership beyond occupancy cannot be justified? So, what, everyone with a spare bedroom is oppressing you?
I liked this bit, myself. I'm still debating whether to sig it or not.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Esternarx
 
Absolutist land claims in perpetuity, ownership far beyond that of occupancy and use, cannot be justified.


Ownership far beyond that of occupancy is not necessarily un-useful. Sometimes it's used for peace of mind, as good a justification as any, perhaps the best justification of all. I don't know if one individual can necessarily decode the state and peace of mind of another individual.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Atticus, a mod editted your post for profanity, but you changed it back, perhaps unintentionally. I think you should remove the profanity from your post per the mod's edits.
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Al Araam
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I guess that's a little better. Still offensive, but I suppose that was the point. If E or someone else reports it, I will deal with it again then.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Evan, I like you. We've had some good times RPing together. I even bought into your ideology for a bit.

But, really, Evan, your ideology is batshit. And if you actually plan to commit a terrorist act against Keene property, I will act to make sure the local authorities are informed of your actions.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Who's Evan? It's Esternarx, or E. Don't think you're too cool for the internets.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Tristan da Cunha
Oct 20 2009, 06:46 PM
Who's Evan? It's Esternarx, or E. Don't think you're too cool for the internets.
My apologies, Victor.

Now, as Andrew and Shankar were saying... :gnarkgnark:
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Tristan da Cunha
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Hey What is your name again Q? I don't think you ever stated it. You secretive bastard, you know every one else's name but no one knows your name.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Oct 20 2009, 06:54 PM.
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Quaon
Oct 20 2009, 06:50 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Oct 20 2009, 06:46 PM
Who's Evan? It's Esternarx, or E. Don't think you're too cool for the internets.
My apologies, Victor.

Now, as Andrew and Shankar were saying... :gnarkgnark:
Andrew? Shankar? Voctor?

I shall now embark on an epic quest to find whol these names belong to.

TC, tell me who these belong to.
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