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Pope or Anti-Pope?
Topic Started: Oct 12 2009, 10:09 AM (755 Views)
Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Should Avignon be the official Papal seat, or the residence of French anti-popes? :evil:

If the latter, what should be done about the Roman pope? Just make Filo the Papal States, under a different name of sorts? Or an NPC?
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

I figured the schism would have been cleared up, as in real life, with the Pope back in Rome by this point. But I would be open to a different outcome if you guys want one. Is Avignon in Toussaint's land, or empty?
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
It is mine. I've switched nations to RP a Pontiff in Avignon. The question is whether I should make him official or not. I do not want to make him official without consent.
Edited by Union, Oct 12 2009, 10:27 AM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Ok, I saw the other thread now. I didn't see it before because I looked at this thread before.

Would you want the schism to still be going on? If it is still going on, then I would prefer that neither Pope be declared "official" and rather, that various kings align themself with one Pope or the other depending on their political or other interests.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
That's what I'm asking - should there be two Popes, or just the one?

If there is just the one, I will RP as "official". If there are two, I will RP as "one of two". But I need to know whether the forum cares if I RP as "official", as I do not want it to be a unilateral decision.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Well, I guess we should see if Filo intended to RP a Pope in Rome. If not, then I'd be fine with you just being the Pope - but if he did, then I'd say two Popes.

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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Filo! :D

Here's an interesting map of support during the schism, btw:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_schism_1378_1417-C2.jpg
Edited by Union, Oct 12 2009, 11:58 AM.
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Toussaint
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Major
Huesca
Oct 12 2009, 10:09 AM
Should Avignon be the official Papal seat, or the residence of French anti-popes? :evil:
Personally, I'd enjoy the latter. :gnarkgnark:
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
There should be a pope in Rome. I also think any religion breaks should wait until we're RPing closer to the Reformation period.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
This predates the Reformation, however, and the anti-popes lasted until the late 1440s.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Telosan
Oct 12 2009, 05:58 PM
There should be a pope in Rome. I also think any religion breaks should wait until we're RPing closer to the Reformation period.
Why would we play an event from this era in a later era?
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Draxis
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Rhadamanthus
Oct 12 2009, 06:03 PM
Telosan
Oct 12 2009, 05:58 PM
There should be a pope in Rome. I also think any religion breaks should wait until we're RPing closer to the Reformation period.
Why would we play an event from this era in a later era?
His statement is funny considering how much he has discussed playing actual history out the way it was...

:gnarkgnark:
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Would anyone be willing to compile a list of religions including 1) division into Christian and Muslims (and other if necessary), 2) An indication as to whether a given Eastern nation accepts the Union, and 3) whether a Catholic nation recognizes Avignon or Rome?
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
What...

I'm going to need to research now. I don't know what union we're talking about. Give me a few minutes.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

It wouldn't affect you anyway, since you are Western. Its the union between East and West that was signed at the Council of Florence.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Avignon or Rome - Which Pope you hold as the true Pope.

Union or not - Orthodox nations, whether they support the union between the Pope at ROME and the Patriarch at CONSTANTINOPLE.

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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
We serve the Pope.

Portugal and Andalusia
Edited by New Harumf, Oct 15 2009, 09:08 AM.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
After all our support, Mr. Portugal? T-T
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Portugal denies ever stating support for Rome, and is currently reviewing the Papal situation.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Did a little research on the Council of Florence and this Avignon/Rome thing. My questions are answered for the council, but I got very vague results for the latter. Can someone take a moment to give me a quick, few sentence run down here?

Either way, I think Venice is for Rome.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon_Papacy
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Filo
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General
Italy is heir of Lombardrds invaders that destroy italian peninsula.
Roma is not Italian Capital(it is Pavia) and so Italy is not Papal states.

However Roma may be the seat of the Roman Pontiff, also if it will be a very limited head of Roman catholic churc...
Infact is uppose, in this game, that Lombards defedated Franks and pope become more or less as the patriarch of Costantinople, so the Pope si a little more than personal bishop of King of Italy.

Anyway both Pope and King of Italy never recognize a Papacy that is not seated in Rome
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Do you mind if the Pope is rotated through players by Conclaves, and resides in Rome, but has no other temporal power?
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Filo
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General
Well. yes may be funny.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
Either way, I have an important need from the Pope to recognize an emperor. A rival Pope would be useful for the Austrians trying to grab power in the Empire right now.
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