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Obama: Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Topic Started: Oct 9 2009, 10:02 AM (1,329 Views)
Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
Telosan
 
I just heard about this in school. They announced it on the PA system. Half my class cheered/applauded. I started arguing with people around me that it was pure and unproccessed shit. Obama has done NOTHING to deserve it. Absolutely NOTHING. My entire class denied that fact and kept pointing out stupid crap.

"He broke the race barrier and was the first African-American to be in office."
Yeah, but that doesn't mean he deserves a PEACE prize for it. Besides the fact that he's even an African-American is still to be debated.

"He ended the war in Iraq."
WTF?!!? What year are you living in?

"He said he'll withdraw from Iraq and end the war in the Middle East."
Yeah, so he can take all those troops and drop them farther east in Afghanistan.

"He's an all-around better president, better leader, and better person that Bush could ever hope to be."
...

I hate stupidity. Yet I'm drowning in it on a daily basis. The only thing I've heard since he took office that I thought was a good idea was him considering lengthening the school year/day.
A president can't tinker with the length of school years/days. Abolish the Department of Education.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Oct 9 2009, 02:51 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Ulgania
Oct 9 2009, 02:36 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 02:14 PM
Ulgania
Oct 9 2009, 01:44 PM
lebowski2123
Oct 9 2009, 01:40 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Oct 9 2009, 12:13 PM
Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, and now Barack Obama... the NPP should be renamed the US Democratic Party 1.5 Million Dollar Prize.
Hey give JC his due, spawning a gas crisis and failing to get American hostages to be released would be a pretty tall order for anyone, right?
Well, he did make the Middle East a 'vital' need to secure. You make something 'vital', you're going to have to get something for it.
Making something 'vital' should be a cause for punishment. Perhaps we can publically flog the guy?
Note my above mention of irony. We just 'bombed' the moon! :lol:
I got the irony, I was building on your sentiments, but didn't want to use irony myself since I prefer more direct methods of communication. :D
Edited by Rhadamanthus, Oct 9 2009, 02:51 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 02:43 PM
I just heard about this in school. They announced it on the PA system. Half my class cheered/applauded. I started arguing with people around me that it was pure and unproccessed shit. Obama has done NOTHING to deserve it. Absolutely NOTHING. My entire class denied that fact and kept pointing out stupid crap.

"He broke the race barrier and was the first African-American to be in office."
Yeah, but that doesn't mean he deserves a PEACE prize for it. Besides the fact that he's even an African-American is still to be debated.

"He ended the war in Iraq."
WTF?!!? What year are you living in?

"He said he'll withdraw from Iraq and end the war in the Middle East."
Yeah, so he can take all those troops and drop them farther east in Afghanistan.

"He's an all-around better president, better leader, and better person that Bush could ever hope to be."
...

I hate stupidity. Yet I'm drowning in it on a daily basis. The only thing I've heard since he took office that I thought was a good idea was him considering lengthening the school year/day.
Telosan, do you want to lay awake at night frightened for the future?

If so, read the following:

Every single one of those classmates of yours will within a few years be able to vote. Our political system gives all of them equal "rights" to participate in the political system.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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Besides the fact that he's even an African-American is still to be debated.
If you're an idiot, then yes, it is still to be debated.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
Gah. Race. Talking about equal rights for various races still implies racial tension. If it wasn't for the inequalities in France I would totally employ the French model on the rest of the world
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Tristan da Cunha
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If you don't study hard and don't get a good job you'll have to marry a black woman.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Oct 9 2009, 03:27 PM.
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Aelius
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I'm curious, does anyone on this forum actually support Obama and/or the Democrats? I'm moderate/independent, btw, I've just seen a lot of Republican views and I was curious.
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Telosan
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Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 02:52 PM
Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 02:43 PM
I just heard about this in school. They announced it on the PA system. Half my class cheered/applauded. I started arguing with people around me that it was pure and unproccessed shit. Obama has done NOTHING to deserve it. Absolutely NOTHING. My entire class denied that fact and kept pointing out stupid crap.

"He broke the race barrier and was the first African-American to be in office."
Yeah, but that doesn't mean he deserves a PEACE prize for it. Besides the fact that he's even an African-American is still to be debated.

"He ended the war in Iraq."
WTF?!!? What year are you living in?

"He said he'll withdraw from Iraq and end the war in the Middle East."
Yeah, so he can take all those troops and drop them farther east in Afghanistan.

"He's an all-around better president, better leader, and better person that Bush could ever hope to be."
...

I hate stupidity. Yet I'm drowning in it on a daily basis. The only thing I've heard since he took office that I thought was a good idea was him considering lengthening the school year/day.
Telosan, do you want to lay awake at night frightened for the future?

If so, read the following:

Every single one of those classmates of yours will within a few years be able to vote. Our political system gives all of them equal "rights" to participate in the political system.
"Equality is a lie. A myth to appease the masses. Simply look around you and you will see the lie for what it is! There are those with power, those with the strength to lead. And there are those meant to follow - those incapable of anything but servitude and a meager, worthless existence. Equality is a perversion of the natural order! It binds the strong to the weak. They become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them. They suffer for the sake of keeping them even with thier inferiors."

~ Darth Bane ~

Never before have I agreed more with the words of a fictional character. Sure it's filled with the dark side stuff, but the main point is still visible. Democracy is a failed experiment so long as the stupid majority can override the intellectual minority.

Meritocracy: a system of a government or other organization wherein appointments are made and responsibilities assigned to individuals based upon demonstrated talent and ability (merit). In a meritocracy, society rewards (via wealth, position, and social status) those who show talent and competence as demonstrated by past actions or by competition. Evaluation systems, such as formal education, are closely linked to notions of meritocracy.

Great idea. Maybe it'd encourage people to get up and do something.

Geniocracy: is the framework for a system of government which was first proposed by Rael (leader of the International Raëlian Movement) in 1977 and which advocates problem-solving and creative intelligence as criteria for regional governance.

Morons may not be elected. Similar to Noocracy.

If we could combine these two forms of government, America would be better off.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 02:43 PM
"He's an all-around better president, better leader, and better person that Bush could ever hope to be."
Better person? I agree. The only "good person" thing I remember Bush doing was sitting in on a bunch of primary school kids getting read to.
Better leader? The chanting hordes of Obama lovers put him clear ahead of Bush.
Better president? The only debatable point.

So far Obama has done... well... nothing as president. Neither had Bush at this point of his presidency. The only fair thing to judge them on would be their electoral results. And it's true, Obama did better than Bush could ever hope to. He even won the popular vote first try.

I'm not an Obama fan. But you could compare Stalin to Bush and Stalin would come out as a better president and leader than Bush could ever hope to be (Bush wins the "better person" hands down though). Not that Bush was a terribly bad figurehead president - but it's not like he's set a high bar.

Anyone with a cult of personality is a better president and leader than Bush. Members of that cult will think their glorious leader is a better person.
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Rhadamanthus
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Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 9 2009, 03:33 PM
So far Obama has done... well... nothing as president. Neither had Bush at this point of his presidency.
Eight years ago Bush was already sending men into Afghanistan. So its not fair to say that Bush had not done anything at this point of his presidency, but obviously its not Obama's fault that he didn't get hit by a terrorist attack during his presidency.
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Rhadamanthus
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 03:28 PM
"Equality is a lie. A myth to appease the masses. Simply look around you and you will see the lie for what it is! There are those with power, those with the strength to lead. And there are those meant to follow - those incapable of anything but servitude and a meager, worthless existence. Equality is a perversion of the natural order! It binds the strong to the weak. They become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them. They suffer for the sake of keeping them even with thier inferiors."

~ Darth Bane ~

Never before have I agreed more with the words of a fictional character. Sure it's filled with the dark side stuff, but the main point is still visible. Democracy is a failed experiment so long as the stupid majority can override the intellectual minority.
I don't see anything wrong with the content of Darth Bane's words, though I might have a few quibbles with tone and choice of words. The real question is why those words were put into the mouth of a bad guy in particular. Making that argument a perogative of the dark side is, itself, a perpetuation of the lie. Out of curiosity, is that from one of the movies, or a game, or something else?
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New Harumf
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Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 03:41 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 9 2009, 03:33 PM
So far Obama has done... well... nothing as president. Neither had Bush at this point of his presidency.
Eight years ago Bush was already sending men into Afghanistan. So its not fair to say that Bush had not done anything at this point of his presidency, but obviously its not Obama's fault that he didn't get hit by a terrorist attack during his presidency.
Yet.

The whole thing is insane. Obama is an empty suit with a tongue more skilled than a $50 whore. He really believes he can convince international leaders to do things his way by the power of his personality. Sarkozy has figured him out and has now dismissed him. He is a danger in the office he holds. He will bankrupt the U.S. The dollar will be worthless. For THIS he wins the Nobel Peace Medal? If anything he should take the money and pay it into the general fund of the government.

Perfect form of Democracy: For every Federal Tax Dollar you pay, you get one vote. Based on recent history, I get about 8,500 votes. Morons on welfare get 0 votes. Seems fair to me.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 03:28 PM
"Equality is a lie. A myth to appease the masses. Simply look around you and you will see the lie for what it is! There are those with power, those with the strength to lead. And there are those meant to follow - those incapable of anything but servitude and a meager, worthless existence. Equality is a perversion of the natural order! It binds the strong to the weak. They become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them. They suffer for the sake of keeping them even with thier inferiors."

~ Darth Bane ~
That's become one of my favourite quotes on equality. Here's some of my others:

"There can be no more myth of "equality" for all — it only translates to "mediocrity" and supports the weak at the expense of the strong. Water must be allowed to seek its own level without interference from apologists for incompetence. No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity."

- Anton LaVey

"He who seeks equality between unequals, seeks an absurdity."

- Benedictus de Spinoza

"Nature is entirely neutral; she submits to him who most energetically and resolutely assails her. She grants her rewards to the fittest, therefore, without regard to other considerations of any kind."

- William G. Sumner

"Inequality is the essence of the social bond. The vast range of temperaments, minds, motivations, strengths, and desires that exists in any population is nothing if not the stuff of hierarchy."

- Robert Nisbet

"Nature does not recognize equality. The only progress has been through increasing inequalities."

- Gustave Le Bon
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Nag Ehgoeg
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Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 03:41 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Oct 9 2009, 03:33 PM
So far Obama has done... well... nothing as president. Neither had Bush at this point of his presidency.
Eight years ago Bush was already sending men into Afghanistan. So its not fair to say that Bush had not done anything at this point of his presidency, but obviously its not Obama's fault that he didn't get hit by a terrorist attack during his presidency.
If this thread was posted two days ago, my post would have been entirely accurate.
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Telosan
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Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 03:43 PM
Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 03:28 PM
"Equality is a lie. A myth to appease the masses. Simply look around you and you will see the lie for what it is! There are those with power, those with the strength to lead. And there are those meant to follow - those incapable of anything but servitude and a meager, worthless existence. Equality is a perversion of the natural order! It binds the strong to the weak. They become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them. They suffer for the sake of keeping them even with thier inferiors."

~ Darth Bane ~

Never before have I agreed more with the words of a fictional character. Sure it's filled with the dark side stuff, but the main point is still visible. Democracy is a failed experiment so long as the stupid majority can override the intellectual minority.
I don't see anything wrong with the content of Darth Bane's words, though I might have a few quibbles with tone and choice of words. The real question is why those words were put into the mouth of a bad guy in particular. Making that argument a perogative of the dark side is, itself, a perpetuation of the lie. Out of curiosity, is that from one of the movies, or a game, or something else?
It's from the book Darth Bane: Rule of Two. It's in the words of the bad guy because the idea flows with the Sith moreso than the Jedi. That, and Bane is freaking awesome. I'd put this in my signature if only it was much shorter and I had space.
Edited by Telosan, Oct 9 2009, 03:57 PM.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 03:57 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 03:43 PM
Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 03:28 PM
"Equality is a lie. A myth to appease the masses. Simply look around you and you will see the lie for what it is! There are those with power, those with the strength to lead. And there are those meant to follow - those incapable of anything but servitude and a meager, worthless existence. Equality is a perversion of the natural order! It binds the strong to the weak. They become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them. They suffer for the sake of keeping them even with thier inferiors."

~ Darth Bane ~

Never before have I agreed more with the words of a fictional character. Sure it's filled with the dark side stuff, but the main point is still visible. Democracy is a failed experiment so long as the stupid majority can override the intellectual minority.
I don't see anything wrong with the content of Darth Bane's words, though I might have a few quibbles with tone and choice of words. The real question is why those words were put into the mouth of a bad guy in particular. Making that argument a perogative of the dark side is, itself, a perpetuation of the lie. Out of curiosity, is that from one of the movies, or a game, or something else?
It's from the book Darth Bane: Rule of Two. It's in the words of the bad guy because the idea flows with the Sith moreso than the Jedi. That, and Bane is freaking awesome. I'd put this in my signature if only it was much shorter and I had space.
:rolleyes:
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Rhadamanthus
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New Harumf
Oct 9 2009, 03:49 PM
Perfect form of Democracy: For every Federal Tax Dollar you pay, you get one vote. Based on recent history, I get about 8,500 votes. Morons on welfare get 0 votes. Seems fair to me.
People who pay zero taxes would get zero votes (like me for example, since I'm a full time student and most of my income is non-taxed scholarship funds; my taxable wages are usually not enough to actually get taxed). But people who are on welfare are essentially paying negative taxes, so they should get negative votes; instead of telling the government how it should operate, they could be required to work for the government in return for the welfare funds (and there are enough government positions as it is, aren't there?).

Nag
 
That's become one of my favourite quotes on equality. Here's some of my others:
I didn't want to quote all the quotes, but I liked them all.

Nag
 
If this thread was posted two days ago, my post would have been entirely accurate.
But if you had posted two days ago this conversation would have been irrelevant since the Nobel Peace Prize would not yet have been awarded.

Telosan
 
It's from the book Darth Bane: Rule of Two. It's in the words of the bad guy because the idea flows with the Sith moreso than the Jedi. That, and Bane is freaking awesome. I'd put this in my signature if only it was much shorter and I had space.
I think it fits the Jedi perfectly. The Jedi are a completely inegalitarian institution since you have to be born with the aptitude to use the Force. They are like a natural aristocracy.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 03:28 PM
Geniocracy: is the framework for a system of government which was first proposed by Rael (leader of the International Raëlian Movement) in 1977 and which advocates problem-solving and creative intelligence as criteria for regional governance.
All governments are inherently, unavoidably geniocratic. Unintelligent people never become decision-makers, under any circumstances. A non-geniocracy has never happened in the history of the world.

You think stupid people are running this country right now? Think again... we are as always run by and at the disposal of people of vast intelligence and cunning who are lining their pockets right now from the public treasury. A stupid person is not intelligent enough to use the apparatus of state to their own personal advantage, or to any advantage.

What you're thinking of is something of a John Stuart Millian "utilitarianocracy", another harmful form of government.

Geniocracy is unavoidable, so we don't need to worry about geniuses in charge. There is never a shortage of pure geniuses. What's infinitely harder to achieve is Moral Order (capitalized for dramatic effect).
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Telosan
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Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 04:06 PM
Telosan
 
It's from the book Darth Bane: Rule of Two. It's in the words of the bad guy because the idea flows with the Sith moreso than the Jedi. That, and Bane is freaking awesome. I'd put this in my signature if only it was much shorter and I had space.
I think it fits the Jedi perfectly. The Jedi are a completely inegalitarian institution since you have to be born with the aptitude to use the Force. They are like a natural aristocracy.
The Jedi promote order, peace, and, in general terms, good. Since equality is along the lines of order, they'll die for it.

The Sith are seen as evil by them because they focus on the more natural aspects of life, emotions, instincts, and sensations. Since equality promotes order, it is against nature which is pure chaos, they despise it.

Ever since I read something on the differences of the Jedi and Sith (It was a Force philosophy book I found at CTY 2 years ago), I've always favored the Sith. The Jedi resemble the mindless beings of today, spouting crap about fairness, safety, and peace because they're popular views. The Sith rebel against what society views as normal, but that doesn't make them wrong. Peace is unnatural, killing is required in nature. Order is impossible, nature embodies chaos. Today, everything is kept bottled up, no one expresses thier emotions, where the Sith draw power from pain, sorrow, grief, anger, happiness, joy, and love. The Jedi follow today's views of keeping everything to yourself, they even banned love.

:geek: Geek attack.
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Tristan da Cunha
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To argue the fine points of the philosophy of the great George Lucas and the Star Wars universe, I would argue that equality - or attempts to impose equality - leads to chaos, instability, and untold human suffering and dislocation. By contrast, respect for the natural state of inequality leads to order, stability, and permanence.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 04:17 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 04:06 PM
Telosan
 
It's from the book Darth Bane: Rule of Two. It's in the words of the bad guy because the idea flows with the Sith moreso than the Jedi. That, and Bane is freaking awesome. I'd put this in my signature if only it was much shorter and I had space.
I think it fits the Jedi perfectly. The Jedi are a completely inegalitarian institution since you have to be born with the aptitude to use the Force. They are like a natural aristocracy.
The Jedi promote order, peace, and, in general terms, good. Since equality is along the lines of order, they'll die for it.

The Sith are seen as evil by them because they focus on the more natural aspects of life, emotions, instincts, and sensations. Since equality promotes order, it is against nature which is pure chaos, they despise it.

Ever since I read something on the differences of the Jedi and Sith (It was a Force philosophy book I found at CTY 2 years ago), I've always favored the Sith. The Jedi resemble the mindless beings of today, spouting crap about fairness, safety, and peace because they're popular views. The Sith rebel against what society views as normal, but that doesn't make them wrong. Peace is unnatural, killing is required in nature. Order is impossible, nature embodies chaos. Today, everything is kept bottled up, no one expresses thier emotions, where the Sith draw power from pain, sorrow, grief, anger, happiness, joy, and love. The Jedi follow today's views of keeping everything to yourself, they even banned love.

:geek: Geek attack.
Eh...

The Jedi espouse control over their emotions so that you can achieve enlightenment and oneness with the universe. Sith are slaves to their desires in order to rouse the passions.

Episode II actually addresses this best:

Padme: Are you allowed to love? I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi.
Anakin: Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi's life. So you might say, that we are encouraged to love.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
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TR won for reasons I have no idea about.


He negotiated peace between Russia and Japan.

Wilson and Roosevelt certainly deserved the prize. Carter, for his post-presidential actions, can be given it.

Obama? Al Gore? Arafat?

Lolz.
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Rhadamanthus
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 04:17 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 04:06 PM
Telosan
 
It's from the book Darth Bane: Rule of Two. It's in the words of the bad guy because the idea flows with the Sith moreso than the Jedi. That, and Bane is freaking awesome. I'd put this in my signature if only it was much shorter and I had space.
I think it fits the Jedi perfectly. The Jedi are a completely inegalitarian institution since you have to be born with the aptitude to use the Force. They are like a natural aristocracy.
The Jedi promote order, peace, and, in general terms, good. Since equality is along the lines of order, they'll die for it.

The Sith are seen as evil by them because they focus on the more natural aspects of life, emotions, instincts, and sensations. Since equality promotes order, it is against nature which is pure chaos, they despise it.

Ever since I read something on the differences of the Jedi and Sith (It was a Force philosophy book I found at CTY 2 years ago), I've always favored the Sith. The Jedi resemble the mindless beings of today, spouting crap about fairness, safety, and peace because they're popular views. The Sith rebel against what society views as normal, but that doesn't make them wrong. Peace is unnatural, killing is required in nature. Order is impossible, nature embodies chaos. Today, everything is kept bottled up, no one expresses thier emotions, where the Sith draw power from pain, sorrow, grief, anger, happiness, joy, and love. The Jedi follow today's views of keeping everything to yourself, they even banned love.

:geek: Geek attack.
Well, I'm sure you are right about how Star Wars define these things, but they are entirely wrong. Equality is contrary to order. Order is hierarchical and the establishment of order in human societies has historically been the establishment of hierarchies and the dissolution of barbaric equality.

Equality is simply a base passion. And I'm not sure what you are talking about with people today bottling everything up. Today's society encourages full expression of love, sexuality, and anger, and modern psychologists tend to claim that "bottling things up" is unhealthy. Asceticism and the conquering of the passions are seen as repressive and archaic. Indulging one's emotions is seen as modern and liberated. So that aspect of the Sith actually fits better with today's society. The philosophies of Jedi and Sith, if as you describe, are muddled and incoherent.
Edited by Rhadamanthus, Oct 9 2009, 04:38 PM.
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This just pisses me off. Obama has done NOTHING. This is just another example of how political and corrupt our world has become.

And why the hell are we comparing star wars to social equality.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
Lansdallius
Oct 9 2009, 03:14 PM
I'm curious, does anyone on this forum actually support Obama and/or the Democrats? I'm moderate/independent, btw, I've just seen a lot of Republican views and I was curious.
I supported him over McCain, but only because other candidates would have been a protest vote in the end, and I didn't exactly agree with other candidates.

I like to think of it like this:

We here on NS don't seek concurrence with one another, but at the same time we do have a generously heavy amount of personal views that often don't reflect a given party. To be honest, the most concrete views that I know are NH's libertarian views, but that's because I tend to stalk him (but you didn't read that here...). At any given time, a lot of us here have rather convoluted arguments for various issues that don't exactly reflect a given caucus/party platform/manifesto.
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