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NS2 and The H
Topic Started: Sep 26 2009, 12:22 PM (2,131 Views)
Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

At this point, I have no plans to create my own nation myself. Instead, I will make myself available to run NPCs and moderate conflicts.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Huesca
Oct 5 2009, 06:21 PM
Why should new members be restricted from forming their own nations? Feasibly, someone could make a nation using almost all Italian provinces, even if they were not united in the real world. We are not mirroring the real world directly - there is a one hundred year grace period, and taking away the freedom of new players simply because they were not around at start is wrong.

If a new player wants to play Genoa + Florence + Rome united, who are we to say "no, pick either of the three NPC nation". If a new players wants a Swiss-Genoan union, how can we stop them if they make the history work? Turks in Athens? By all means. Make the 100 year history.

Telo, I get the impression you are searching for a clone of Total War. I never intended that when I proposed any of this, and if that is the result, I do not want to participate. Far be it from me from stopping the forum as a whole moving in this direction, if it so chooses, but it does not appeal to me. :)
NPC's can always be amalgamated/converted to a player nation when new players arrive.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
How will they know the difference? I say keep them as white plots until someone tries to invade or annex them - then make up a nation to occupy them and form a resistance. :)
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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

NPC nations can just be marked as "Nation Name (NPC)" on the map. I don't see differentiating between non-player and player nations being a real problem.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Kiev-Volhynia
Oct 6 2009, 10:51 AM
NPC nations can just be marked as "Nation Name (NPC)" on the map. I don't see differentiating between non-player and player nations being a real problem.
This. I'd like to see some historic names on the map. Maybe even some NPCs reacting to PC's actions. Like if Venice attacked Spain (PC) then Naples (NPC), according to RL relations with Spain, attacks as well. Maybe even NPCs warring with NPCs in accordance to RL wars, which PCs can step into as they please. Eh, a bit complex. That'd probably happen on a smaller scale if people RPed NPC nations when bored. Or we could assign every PC an NPC nation to run. Maybe mention their name and reactions to certain events?

Regarding Genoa, I stated earlier that Venice and Genoa were rivals. At the time, the two city-states were in a state of naval war, embargoing each other and firing on each other as they passed. How would we fight/RP that out, and would anyone be willing to play as Genoa for me? I plan on making Venice more agressive than it was IRL, so Genoa might be a first target.

~~~~~

Will there be a limit to the number of units actually capable of being fielded? What if Venice was in two separate wars with Genoa and the Byzantines at the same time? Obviously, both sides could throw everything into attacking Venice, while Venice would have to divide it's armies to fight both. In battle, would this be represented by the number of ICs you can spend/earn each turn? Will we be buying units with a certain amount of ICs set every month or so and placing them on a worldmap, to be moved around and moved into battlemaps when battle began, or will we just be buying units at the begining of each battle, regardless of whether troops would be present or not?

Also, can we call ICs something else? I can see them easily getting confused sometime in the future with "In Character".
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Sedulius
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Huesca
Oct 5 2009, 05:31 PM
Telo, making it larger would make it harder to use in MSPaint. The only place the numbers get fucked up in any significant way is north-west blue. Everywhere else they are perfectly clear. :)

Sed - the time is 1452, and fake history begins at 1350.

We should hold off on claiming territories until an actual map thread is made. :rolleyes:
In this case, when we actually do get a map thread going, I'll only have Constantinople itself and Morea.

Posted Image

This came from a very good map resource page. It's only about the Roman empire from 338 BC to AD 1452.

http://4umi.com/image/map/rome/19maps.php

EDIT: Best believe I'll be expanding fast if there are no Turks to oppose me.

EDIT 2: Actually, I just thought of the most wonderful idea. I could be the Holy Roman Empire. Fredrick III was crowned in 1452. Let's say he got a conscience and went to save the Byzantines from the Turks (with the Turks closing on his borders, this would make enough sense). It would be a unification of the Empires, an offer the Byzantines would surely accept with their doom looming.

This is what I want to do.

EDIT 3: Remember, I wouldn't be so powerful for very long. Martin Luther isn't so far away, depending on how fast we move the timeline.
Edited by Sedulius, Oct 6 2009, 03:44 PM.
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Union
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You have fake history from 1350. You could simply not lose a lot of Anatolia or Morea.

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Telosan
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What Huesca said. Just say that the Byzantines called in more allies.

Also, I think a union of the Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire is a highly unlikely event. While researching Venice, I found that throughout the existance of both empires, Venice was often the intermediary and both empires thought they should own Venice. Venice was always neutral in the rivalry and much of it's early prosperity came from being one of the few nations to trade with both empires.
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Tristan da Cunha
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There are many possibilities. The most fitting one imo is that Tamerlane could've followed up his 1402 victory over the Ottomans by continuing to pursue the Ottomans and severely damaging the unity of their empire.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Oct 7 2009, 05:44 AM.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Quote:
 
Will there be a limit to the number of units actually capable of being fielded? What if Venice was in two separate wars with Genoa and the Byzantines at the same time? Obviously, both sides could throw everything into attacking Venice, while Venice would have to divide it's armies to fight both. In battle, would this be represented by the number of ICs you can spend/earn each turn? Will we be buying units with a certain amount of ICs set every month or so and placing them on a worldmap, to be moved around and moved into battlemaps when battle began, or will we just be buying units at the begining of each battle, regardless of whether troops would be present or not?
Restating question.

Quote:
 
In this case, when we actually do get a map thread going, I'll only have Constantinople itself and Morea.
I already have Morea.
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Sedulius
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In 1452, the Byzantines still had it. I didn't see you with it before I claimed it. So no, you don't have the Morea.

By 1347, the Byzantines had lost essentially all of Anatolia to the Turks. Unless some miracle happened, the Byzantines could hardly have reconquered Anatolia.

If we're making fake history, what's wrong with me making a unified Greco-German Roman Empire?

If you're so opposed to the idea, then I will start out in the face of demise with only Constantinople and the Morea. If no one takes on being the Turks, then I will take it as that a miracle happened. God smote the evil Turk so Rome could rise once more. :lol:
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Quote:
 
In 1452, the Byzantines still had it. I didn't see you with it before I claimed it. So no, you don't have the Morea.

By 1347, the Byzantines had lost essentially all of Anatolia to the Turks. Unless some miracle happened, the Byzantines could hardly have reconquered Anatolia.

If we're making fake history, what's wrong with me making a unified Greco-German Roman Empire?



RD claimed Crown of Aragon's RL possessions up to 1452. This includes Athens and Neopatria, not Morea.

Sed. It's fake history. RP a military genious. Make a miracle.

I have no problem with a unified Roman Empire, although please rationalize it considering the Schism and the Western-Eastern rivalry. It is unrealistic, but w/e. It's not up to us to ban ideas because of lack of realism, if they fit the minimum standards. :)
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Telosan
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Huesca, the Morea debate is over whether Venice or the Byzantines owned it.

Quote:
 
BLUE - 9, 10 ...
My claim.

Regardless, I'd be willing to split the island. There was another territory I was eyeing when I ran out of points.

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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
It was Morea until 13something, then Achaea, then Morea again.
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Sedulius
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Telo: I'm only asking for Morea and Constantinople. You have plenty of former Byzantine possessions (Crete, Cyprus, etc.) already, right? Morea wasn't historically Venetian in 1452, it was historically Byzantine, so why do you want it?

H: I like your idea. Perhaps the latest Constantine proves himself to be a current era Belisarius. Though leading an army of but 3,000 against 200,000 seems a bit impossible (Belisarius led 10,000 against 100,000).

OR, I could just say God tipped him off when that guy came him to sell those cannons. You know, the ones the Turks bought that allowed them to finally break Constantinople's walls? Constantinople will never fall! Hahahahahaha!

Actually, I like the idea of starting as an imperial underdog. It appeals more to me. Plus I'll have MONSTER BOMBARDS! Rather than the Turks having them. Their army won't be too happy with those shelling them. Constantine screams, "Haha! Just try and get me you Turkish bastards!" *giant bombard shot wipes out half of Turkish army* :lol:

That said, I still just want Constantinople and the Morea. Please Telo?
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Quote:
 
Claims: 15 points.

LIGHT BLUE - 17 and 9.
BLUE - 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23
TAN - 14 and 19
WHATEVER COLOR MOST OF AFRICA IS - 23 and 24.
Revision.

Take away BLUE 9 and 10. Add BLUE 7 and 8.

Sed and I will have to fight over Morea very early.
Edited by Telosan, Oct 8 2009, 08:34 PM.
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Rhadamanthus
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Telosan
Oct 8 2009, 08:34 PM
Quote:
 
Claims: 15 points.

LIGHT BLUE - 17 and 9.
BLUE - 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23
TAN - 14 and 19
WHATEVER COLOR MOST OF AFRICA IS - 23 and 24.
Revision.

Take away BLUE 9 and 10. Add BLUE 7 and 8.

Sed and I will have to fight over Morea very early.
Aren't 7 and 8 part of the Crown of Aragon's lands?
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Yes.
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flumes
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
If help is needed moving this forward, let me know. I can do the map, or whatever...
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Sedulius
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Field Marshal
Telosan
Oct 8 2009, 08:34 PM
Quote:
 
Claims: 15 points.

LIGHT BLUE - 17 and 9.
BLUE - 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23
TAN - 14 and 19
WHATEVER COLOR MOST OF AFRICA IS - 23 and 24.
Revision.

Take away BLUE 9 and 10. Add BLUE 7 and 8.

Sed and I will have to fight over Morea very early.
Yes, we will. I have no problem with losing it to you, since that happened. I'd just like to start out with it.

Constantinople is where the real money is at, even if it's by itself.
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Telosan
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Rhadamanthus
Oct 8 2009, 09:06 PM
Telosan
Oct 8 2009, 08:34 PM
Quote:
 
Claims: 15 points.

LIGHT BLUE - 17 and 9.
BLUE - 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23
TAN - 14 and 19
WHATEVER COLOR MOST OF AFRICA IS - 23 and 24.
Revision.

Take away BLUE 9 and 10. Add BLUE 7 and 8.

Sed and I will have to fight over Morea very early.
Aren't 7 and 8 part of the Crown of Aragon's lands?
In Greece? The maps I've seen show it under Venetian control for several years.
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Rhadamanthus
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Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 02:46 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 8 2009, 09:06 PM
Telosan
Oct 8 2009, 08:34 PM
Quote:
 
Claims: 15 points.

LIGHT BLUE - 17 and 9.
BLUE - 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23
TAN - 14 and 19
WHATEVER COLOR MOST OF AFRICA IS - 23 and 24.
Revision.

Take away BLUE 9 and 10. Add BLUE 7 and 8.

Sed and I will have to fight over Morea very early.
Aren't 7 and 8 part of the Crown of Aragon's lands?
In Greece? The maps I've seen show it under Venetian control for several years.
Yes, but I already claimed all lands that were held by the Crown of Aragon. Those lands formed the Duchies of Athens and Neopatria that were for a time held by the Crown.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 02:48 PM
Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 02:46 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 8 2009, 09:06 PM
Telosan
Oct 8 2009, 08:34 PM
Quote:
 
Claims: 15 points.

LIGHT BLUE - 17 and 9.
BLUE - 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23
TAN - 14 and 19
WHATEVER COLOR MOST OF AFRICA IS - 23 and 24.
Revision.

Take away BLUE 9 and 10. Add BLUE 7 and 8.

Sed and I will have to fight over Morea very early.
Aren't 7 and 8 part of the Crown of Aragon's lands?
In Greece? The maps I've seen show it under Venetian control for several years.
Yes, but I already claimed all lands that were held by the Crown of Aragon. Those lands formed the Duchies of Athens and Neopatria that were for a time held by the Crown.
Posted Image

This map shows Venetian (Green) territories in the Balklans circa 1450.

Posted Image

This map shows the greatest extent of the Crown of Aragon, circa 1380. A quick research on the Duchy of Neopatria shows that it only lasted until 1390.

~~~~~

On an unrelated note, I'm compiling a map. If you want to be on it, please make your land claims according to Huesca's system.
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Tristan da Cunha
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My claims have been recorded I believe.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 03:13 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 9 2009, 02:48 PM
Telosan
Oct 9 2009, 02:46 PM
Rhadamanthus
Oct 8 2009, 09:06 PM
Telosan
Oct 8 2009, 08:34 PM
Quote:
 
Claims: 15 points.

LIGHT BLUE - 17 and 9.
BLUE - 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23
TAN - 14 and 19
WHATEVER COLOR MOST OF AFRICA IS - 23 and 24.
Revision.

Take away BLUE 9 and 10. Add BLUE 7 and 8.

Sed and I will have to fight over Morea very early.
Aren't 7 and 8 part of the Crown of Aragon's lands?
In Greece? The maps I've seen show it under Venetian control for several years.
Yes, but I already claimed all lands that were held by the Crown of Aragon. Those lands formed the Duchies of Athens and Neopatria that were for a time held by the Crown.
Posted Image

This map shows Venetian (Green) territories in the Balklans circa 1450.

Posted Image

This map shows the greatest extent of the Crown of Aragon, circa 1380. A quick research on the Duchy of Neopatria shows that it only lasted until 1390.

~~~~~

On an unrelated note, I'm compiling a map. If you want to be on it, please make your land claims according to Huesca's system.
We can change history from 1350 on. Also, it is irrelevant, since I claimed earlier all those lands of the Crown at its height. You only claimed those lands after you gave up the Morea to Sed a few posts back, while I said I wanted all the lands of the Crown at its height on the previous page, before you changed your claim.



Edit: How about you take 7 and I'll take 8? So I'd do something like:

Yellow: 7-1, 9-1, 10-1, 11-1
Dark Green (Italy): 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 7-1, 8-1, 9-1, 10-1, 11-1
Blue: 6-1, 8-1
Edited by Rhadamanthus, Oct 9 2009, 03:26 PM.
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