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NS2 and The H
Topic Started: Sep 26 2009, 12:22 PM (2,134 Views)
Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Both are part of the same proposal.

The units: http://img43.imageshack.us/i/unitsx.png/
The IC and Population system: http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/7019934/1/#new


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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

It could be interesting. If NS2 isn't going anywhere anyway, then I suppose that there's no harm in implementing it there. It's not like NS2 is actually there to provide us with stats anymore. It might be interesting to have a game that is actually a bit different than what we've been doing here practically forever. Given that NS2 is now dead, this proposal has my support. I'm not in favor of changing the system we use for vanilla NS, but I am in favor of variety. Variety is, after all, the spice of life.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

I strongly disagree with forcing RL history up to 1350. Thule's history diverges from RL history as early as 932, when the Althing of the Icelandic Commonwealth abolishes limits on the number of gošar.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Sorry?
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

I don't care whether you apologize or not, I'm just making my position clear. I intend to RP as though history diverged from its RL stream in the year 932.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
If the majority wants 1350+, comply with the rules of the game?

You can always recreate Free Thule in NS1 if you must.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

The further back we set the point of divergence, the more work it is to make all our nations and histories line up. While that can be fun, if we want this to be relatively easy for us to get started and running, I think the more recent (relative to game date) point of divergence is best for all of us.

Just my opinion - I will abide by whatever the forum consensus decides.
Edited by Rhadamanthus, Sep 30 2009, 07:55 PM.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

I'll see about re-writing a history beginning in 1350. A standardized divergence point might be interesting.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Sounds great - I look forward to seeing what you produce. I hope we can all collaborate too, to build up past interactions between the point of divergence and the game's current date.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Huesca
Sep 30 2009, 04:20 PM
Both are part of the same proposal.

The units: http://img43.imageshack.us/i/unitsx.png/
The IC and Population system: http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/7019934/1/#new


I think the units are great, just a few opinions/questions to throw out there.

How do the bonuses come into play? Plus 1 to attack?

On the bonuses, the cavalry get a bonus against infantry. Can that be more specific?

Swordsmen would be more or less equally armored to pikemen and were often the standard unit, so I think their defense should rise to a 2.

Ship movements should be lowered unless you plan on dividing the seas into much smaller spaces. There were also more types of ships, though I understand that research is hard to come by on them.

The transport is listed as having 8 attack and 0 defense. In Axis & Allies, which the original chart was based off of, transports have 0 attack and a low defense. This causes them to rely on escourts. I think the same principle should be carried over, or at least make it so transport stats are lowered when they are carrying troops.

I think the swordsman unit should be dropped, instead replaced by a general infantry unit. With a general infantry unit, we can pick the weapon type our infantry used. For example, there are 2 weapon options. Venice could choose swords, average move, average attack, and average defense. While someone else, say Ottomans, could choose axes, with a higher attack, lower defense, and average move. You follow what I mean? It makes thing complicated, but it adds a level of customization and changes the combat to some degree.

I also think there should be an introduction of faction unique units. The idea comes from Age of Empires II. Here's a list from the game:

Longbowman - Britons
Cataphract - Byzantines
Woad Raider - Celts
Chu-Ko-Nu - Chinese
Throwing Axeman - Franks
Huskarl - Goths
Samurai - Japanese
Mangudai - Mongols
War Elephant - Persians
Mameluke - Saracens
Teutonic Knight - Teutons
Janissary - Turks
Longboat - Vikings

This also adds a level of customization. For example, the British Longbowman could be based on a normal archer unit. Instead of 3 points, it's 10. Instead of 2 attack, it's 4. Instead of 2 defense, it's 3. Get it?

Just my ideas. No, I haven't been thinking about this too much...
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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Add to that list Hussars - Transdanubia
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
The transports have 8 movement, 0 attack, and 1 defense.
Cavalry bonus is against swordsmen and archers/crossbow/arquebus.

Swordmen became more or less obsolete in this time. This was a time of transition to pike/musket based units, with cavalry as support. It is meant to be a basic, cheap unit, that is starting to outlive its usefulness.

As too the unique units you raise, the list is meant to be generic as possible. You can buy a unit of Arquebuses and call them Longbowmen instead, if you wish. You are meant to RP the composition of your forces and their armaments. The same could be done with swordsman. It is simply the generic name for all to use, like "destroyer" instead of Type 45 A/B.

What could even be done is spending IC on 2 units, and RPing it as one elite unit. :)
Edited by Union, Sep 30 2009, 09:25 PM.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Quote:
 
The transports have 8 movement, 0 attack, and 1 defense.

Oh. Duh.

The swordsman did become obsolete, but it can be argued that it's value was still great. Though I see your point. They're meant to replace the conscripts right? Which brings another question, would militias be considered swordsmen? I still stand by my idea that the stats should vary by arms (and your weapon of choice is standard and permanant to your faction).

Quote:
 
As too the unique units you raise, the list is meant to be generic as possible. You can buy a unit of Arquebuses and call them Longbowmen instead, if you wish.

Unique units add culture to the game. I also understand how the chart is supposed to be generic, but couldn't a extra slot be made for unique units, with it's stats listed as "Varies by type"? If it's a matter of you not wanting to deal with it, I would gladly go about to compile everyone's unique unit and assign balanced (or attempted balanced) stats. Unique units don't have to be on land, the Vikings have a longboat. It let's your military's specialization show.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
I am trying to make this bearable on the modders. We could create a full-fledged complex game and stuff like AoE, but remember computers do the calculations for you in those games. War mods have to manually roll dice in this game for each unit, and having 100 different types of units and bonuses etc, makes this much more annoying for the war moderators.

If we are to play this type of game, some simplicity is needed.
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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Now that we're fairly settled, does anyone have some female Orthodox royalty they would like to marry into the royal line of Transdanubia? I'm trying to fill a slot at around 1370 AD or so, but any royalty would be welcome.
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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Here's a teaser, I'm so pumped about what I just did in the last hour or so...

Posted Image

Oh shit I got Dracula :evil:
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Menhad
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ET2(IDW)
Do you want to deal with your Pope responsibilities or just play around here Leb :rolleyes:
Edited by Menhad, Oct 1 2009, 10:47 AM.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
How is that king alive?
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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Haha good question, looks like I made a mistake, but I assure you certainly not alive.
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Huesca
Sep 30 2009, 09:47 PM
I am trying to make this bearable on the modders. We could create a full-fledged complex game and stuff like AoE, but remember computers do the calculations for you in those games. War mods have to manually roll dice in this game for each unit, and having 100 different types of units and bonuses etc, makes this much more annoying for the war moderators.

If we are to play this type of game, some simplicity is needed.
Dice. Good generator. Choose the quantity of dice, the type of dice, and the modifier.

I say we should have a vote.

~~~~~

Another idea. (I can almost hear Huesca sighing.)

Generals and kings often fought at the front on many, many occaisions. Should there be a +1 bonus to units with a general in the same space? And a -1 to all units for the duration of the battle when the general/king dies?

I say we vote on that, too.

Does no one else have any ideas?
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
So should we post this in the NS2 forums so non-veterans can get a say? How are land claims going to work? I'd like to begin collecting claims so I can make the map.
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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Do you (or does anyone) have a map template for us to look at?
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Telosan
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The Foremost Intellectual Badass
Huesca
Sep 26 2009, 06:45 PM
We could use this map, with everyone picking 15 or less territories or something: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/saintmaggot/NewEuropeBase.gif

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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Maybe someone could fill in some landmarks, geographic or manmade, on that map for points of reference? Because I find myself immediately becoming lost in the AH portion, where tons of cultures exist within one oversized WW1 era plot.
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flumes
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
Are these NS1 nations then since NS2 doesn't exist?
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