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AIDS Vaccine Found
Topic Started: Sep 24 2009, 09:53 PM (252 Views)
Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Works in about 33% of recipients.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/health/research/25aids.html

Thoughts?
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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

Well, a vaccine that works a third of the time is much better than no vaccine at all. Safe sex practices are still advisable, which is probably good. Natural selection and all that.
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Deleted User
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hopefully they do more research and get this up to a higher percentage, or else we might have to use my plan.......
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Tristan da Cunha
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There is likely a discrete genetic basis for the vaccine's success in some people and failure in others.
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Sedulius
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How exactly would you test if the vaccine works? Give the people the vaccine, then AIDS, and see if they don't get it? :lol:

EDIT: Oh wait, lab rats...
Edited by Sedulius, Sep 25 2009, 11:54 AM.
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Tristan da Cunha
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The vaccine was tested on people going about their everyday business and compared with placebo.
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Union
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In fact, the biggest breakthrough about the vaccine is that it marks a world-wide departure from use of lab rats and monkeys to more human testing - which I think will make development of a cure or a true vaccine that much quicker.

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Tristan da Cunha
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The fact that the vaccine has 100% prophylactic effect on 33% of the population and 0% prophylactic effect on 67% of the population in the study suggests there is as little as one single genetic polymorphism that can predict effectiveness of the vaccine when applied to any given individual.

If that's true, then for the 33% of the people carrying the particular genetic mutation, HIV infection is as good as cured. The next logical step is to collect DNA from all the people in the study and do genetic testing to confirm the genetic basis of vaccine response. Then people carrying the beneficial, vaccine-responsive genetic mutation can be identified in the wider population so the vaccine can be applied for maximum effectiveness.
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Abnar
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
Needs better tests. The margin of error for the results is actually greater than 33%, meaning that the drug actually could make people more susceptible to HIV. It's a longshot, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, but still. Also, the original vaccine (the primer) has not been tested for effectiveness, so we don't know if the booster even did anything.

But, it's going to prompt more research, and they'll get it eventually. So overall, thumbs up.
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Ulgania
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
I'm still all for giving people ten dollars in return for them never pro creating.

They probably won't know what I mean if they take the money, and if they're honest then they'll never sex.
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flumes
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
Sedulius
Sep 25 2009, 11:53 AM
EDIT: Oh wait, lab rats...
Lab rats...

My Dad's job takes him to a lot of different business/industries...

Of all the interesting things I've heard from him about various industries... Mice in medical research definitely was one of the crazier...

I forget the exact numbers, but Case Western Reserve (Major Medical Research University in Cleveland, TC's college?) requires something like 1 million live mice a year for medical testing. Alright, simple enough... These aren't just any mice though.. Genetically modified mice... Specific individual lab rats can cost hundreds, if not thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars (that is for 1 rat!). Why so pricey? The rats are bred to have, or not have certain genetic traits... All matching (or trying to) human diseases...

It makes some sense when you think about it, but it is crazy to think one rat could be worth so much!

Article from 06...
http://www.animalsvoice.com/edits/editorial/news/features/mice_tool.html
$100,000 dollars for 1!
:o
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Tristan da Cunha
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I used to work in a mouse lab... not fun. It's best described as slavelike conditions to take care of smelly mice day in and day out. No wonder they cost so much, many humans are sacrificed to raise just one mouse.

Interestingly the big ugly lab rats give off no odor at all, but the small cute lab mice give off a terrible, fishy odor.

The only notable part of working with mice is killing them. To do so you pin the mouse down with your finger laid across its neck, and you pull its tail, thereby breaking all the bones in its spine. It twitches for a few seconds before passing to the next world, and you harvest its organs or whatever you need to do for the experiment.
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Sedulius
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Tristan da Cunha
Sep 25 2009, 02:55 PM
The vaccine was tested on people going about their everyday business and compared with placebo.
Well that's what doesn't make sense to me. How do you know a vaccine works without exposing a person to what the vaccine prevents after using the vaccine?

I don't get it. Can someone explain?
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Tristan da Cunha
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Example- Give vaccine to 10,000 random people. Give placebo to 10,000 other random people.

Assuming both groups of people have the same amount of unsafe sex, shoot up the same amount of drugs, I.E. get exposed to HIV at the same rates going about their everyday business, the vaccine would have a successful effect if the vaccine group ends up with less infections than the placebo group.
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Sedulius
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Tristan da Cunha
Sep 25 2009, 11:07 PM
Example- Give vaccine to 10,000 random people. Give placebo to 10,000 other random people.

Assuming both groups of people have the same amount of unsafe sex, shoot up the same amount of drugs, I.E. get exposed to HIV at the same rates going about their everyday business, the vaccine would have a successful effect if the vaccine group ends up with less infections than the placebo group.
So they specifically targeted people they thought would get HIV?
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Abnar
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
Sedulius
Sep 25 2009, 11:14 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Sep 25 2009, 11:07 PM
Example- Give vaccine to 10,000 random people. Give placebo to 10,000 other random people.

Assuming both groups of people have the same amount of unsafe sex, shoot up the same amount of drugs, I.E. get exposed to HIV at the same rates going about their everyday business, the vaccine would have a successful effect if the vaccine group ends up with less infections than the placebo group.
So they specifically targeted people they thought would get HIV?
No, that's actually what was different about this trial. The subjects were across the general population.
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Sedulius
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Abnar
Sep 25 2009, 11:19 PM
Sedulius
Sep 25 2009, 11:14 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Sep 25 2009, 11:07 PM
Example- Give vaccine to 10,000 random people. Give placebo to 10,000 other random people.

Assuming both groups of people have the same amount of unsafe sex, shoot up the same amount of drugs, I.E. get exposed to HIV at the same rates going about their everyday business, the vaccine would have a successful effect if the vaccine group ends up with less infections than the placebo group.
So they specifically targeted people they thought would get HIV?
No, that's actually what was different about this trial. The subjects were across the general population.
How big was the sample size? It would have to be very large to get enough people exposed to HIV to effectively test the vaccine.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Sedulius
Sep 26 2009, 05:24 PM
Abnar
Sep 25 2009, 11:19 PM
Sedulius
Sep 25 2009, 11:14 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Sep 25 2009, 11:07 PM
Example- Give vaccine to 10,000 random people. Give placebo to 10,000 other random people.

Assuming both groups of people have the same amount of unsafe sex, shoot up the same amount of drugs, I.E. get exposed to HIV at the same rates going about their everyday business, the vaccine would have a successful effect if the vaccine group ends up with less infections than the placebo group.
So they specifically targeted people they thought would get HIV?
No, that's actually what was different about this trial. The subjects were across the general population.
How big was the sample size? It would have to be very large to get enough people exposed to HIV to effectively test the vaccine.
If I had to guess then I'd say: 16,402. Come on guys, let's try a little. The link is right there in the first post.

And yeah, Thailand was a great place to test this. Wasn't Thailand where they found the hookers who had a natural immunity?
Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Sep 26 2009, 05:32 PM.
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Deleted User
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Nag Ehgoeg
Sep 26 2009, 05:32 PM
Sedulius
Sep 26 2009, 05:24 PM
Abnar
Sep 25 2009, 11:19 PM
Sedulius
Sep 25 2009, 11:14 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Sep 25 2009, 11:07 PM
Example- Give vaccine to 10,000 random people. Give placebo to 10,000 other random people.

Assuming both groups of people have the same amount of unsafe sex, shoot up the same amount of drugs, I.E. get exposed to HIV at the same rates going about their everyday business, the vaccine would have a successful effect if the vaccine group ends up with less infections than the placebo group.
So they specifically targeted people they thought would get HIV?
No, that's actually what was different about this trial. The subjects were across the general population.
How big was the sample size? It would have to be very large to get enough people exposed to HIV to effectively test the vaccine.
If I had to guess then I'd say: 16,402. Come on guys, let's try a little. The link is right there in the first post.

And yeah, Thailand was a great place to test this. Wasn't Thailand where they found the hookers who had a natural immunity?
You would think the immunity would have been found in Africa.
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Tristan da Cunha
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It was found in Northern Europe of all places.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Tristan da Cunha
Sep 26 2009, 07:53 PM
It was found in Northern Europe of all places.
Really? I see Kenya and Thailand as being the earliest places.
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Tristan da Cunha
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They may have been. But additionally a significant proportion of the northern Europeans are flat out immune to AIDS prostitute or otherwise.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Tristan da Cunha
Sep 26 2009, 08:29 PM
They may have been. But additionally a significant proportion of the northern Europeans are flat out immune to AIDS prostitute or otherwise.
Hmm... sounds plausible. It's too early in the morning for me to go check.

And with that... I go to bed.

...

Just as soon as I give the forums a last once over.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
It has to do with the Black Death. The bubonic plague attacked the same cell receptors as the HIV virus - populations which survived the Black Death because of the lack of these receptors passed these immunizations into modern European populations, giving it the largest amount of immune peoples.

IIRC.
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