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| Movement to Restore the Roman Catholic Church; formerly "The Old Church" | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 13 2009, 04:19 PM (803 Views) | |
| Sedulius | Jul 13 2009, 04:19 PM Post #1 |
Field Marshal
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OOC: Post-war. I mention Charlemagne's revival. If there's a problem there just tell me. IC: Statement issued by the Primate of All Ireland The Celtic Catholic Church has always been of the opinion that we are part of the true Roman Catholic Church. We believe that while the Colognian Church and the Genesian Church are not heretical, they have strayed from being the true Roman Catholic Church. We of the Celtic Catholic Church firmly believe that the Lord's word does not change, hence the doctrines of the old Roman Catholic Church at Charlemagne's revival of the Church are the true doctrines. We believe that only an elected Bishop of Rome with these beliefs can truly be the Pope of the Catholic Church. The Celtic Catholic Church believes that the true Roman Catholic Church needs to be restored. Anyone wishing to join us in this movement is fully welcome to do so. Henceforth, we recognize the Celtic Catholic Church is not in itself the Roman Catholic Church, but rather it is a part of the true Roman Catholic Church. Signed, Ruadhrí Ó Faoláin, Archbishop of Armagh, Primate of All Ireland Proinnsias Mag Uidhir, Archbishop of Cashel Aonghas Ó Loingsigh, Archbishop of Dublin Rían Mac Maol Eoin, Archbishop of Tuam Edited by Sedulius, Aug 30 2009, 10:40 PM.
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| Sedulius | Jul 13 2009, 09:18 PM Post #2 |
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Field Marshal
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The Celtic Catholic Church has the support of the Edessan Catholic Church. May Rome be restored! Deus lo Vult! -Bénédicte-Louis Perrault, Bishop of Edessa |
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| Sedulius | Oct 4 2009, 02:57 PM Post #3 |
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Field Marshal
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OOC: The Old (Roman Catholic) Church is an unpopular term, one which I have never liked. Hence, I'm changing things up. Churches that are part of this movement are essentially churches that disagree with the Genesians and Colognians but still want to keep the Catholic way. This movement doesn't have much power yet, hence these are more churches in exile rather than one unified church especially since not all see eye to eye. This will, hopefully, change soon enough. I have a plan to make this movement into a unified Church with a unique name and a Pope legitimately enough, with or without Rome. The current churches involved in this movement are: Celtic Catholic Church (Ireland, Mann, Wales, UPW) Highland Catholic Church Venetian Catholic Church Edessan Catholic Church Name of the movement: Movement to Restore the Roman Catholic Church Possible names after movement's completion: Restored Catholic Church Revisionist Catholic Church Abbreviation: RCC Any suggestions are welcome. What I need right now is a solid list of current Genesian doctrine so I can pin down what is different about this movement than the mainstream power. Edited by Sedulius, Oct 4 2009, 02:58 PM.
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Oct 4 2009, 03:01 PM Post #4 |
The Devil's Advocate
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OOC: I think the only "firmly" different doctrine is that the Pope must be of the Papal Bloodline. Something that a Pope (of the Papal Bloodline) could overturn (in theory). Why not ask leb. How far post-war we talking here? I'm assuming that a reasonable amount of time has passed. IC: Predictably, no official response comes from Nag Ehgoeg over this latest protestant church. Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Oct 4 2009, 04:06 PM.
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| Sedulius | Oct 4 2009, 03:12 PM Post #5 |
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Field Marshal
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OOC: The original post what put up quite a while ago. It would be safe to say the statement was made before the Council of Armagh. As far as what is different, that's exactly why I need a solid doctrine, so I can figure what would be different. The doctrines I have seen of the Genesian church are hardly Catholic, but many of those are outdated, and I don't know what leb has changed. EDIT: Nag, no matter how much you want to argue it is protestant, it's not. It's a church of Catholic tradition that will have a Bishop of Rome as Pope. It's a restoration, not a reformation. Edited by Sedulius, Oct 5 2009, 03:26 PM.
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| Rhadamanthus | Oct 4 2009, 06:47 PM Post #6 |
Legitimist
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OOC: Is the Papal Bloodline really a doctrine, or is it a discipline? |
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| Aelius | Oct 5 2009, 05:59 PM Post #7 |
Norman Warlord
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Archbishop Connell and the bishops of England endorse this movement. |
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| Union | Oct 5 2009, 06:12 PM Post #8 |
Pyrenees Republic
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The Irish heresy, and it is a heresy, should cease and desist these actions immediately. The Genesian Church is the only legitimate Apostolic Church, descended directly from St. Peter, something the Irish Church, having been fabricated by men in the back rooms of buildings over doctrinal issues cannot similarly claim. All men who declare their communion with the Irish heresy should know that they violate the edict of Jesus himself. They should know they are pawns, being used by Satan himself to bring down the Holy See, in his own unholy crusade. Cardinal Federico Gonzales-Mayor, of Pamplona. |
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| Kasnyia | Oct 5 2009, 06:18 PM Post #9 |
Chairman of the Bank
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Cologne denounces this movement due to the unfounded and unfortunate supposition of the Irish Church's authority in such a case. - Pope John David I OOC- While Cologne is open to a possible inter-denominational peace, they will not accept anyone who claims they can "restore" the church, as it is not even agreed that there is a church needed to be restored, and that instead, this is an attempt at hostile takeover. |
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| Menhad | Oct 5 2009, 07:41 PM Post #10 |
ET2(IDW)
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"This is heresy through and through. They seek to serve the foul intentions of Satan, and must repent before they are eternally doomed."-Hochmiester Herman von Jungingen |
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| Telosan | Oct 5 2009, 08:23 PM Post #11 |
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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OOC: Isn't this the same as the church before, only difference being a change of name? Also, IC, Venice can't speak for or against this. Only the bishops/archbishop can and they're already along with this. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Oct 6 2009, 03:56 PM Post #12 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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OOC: I'd say discipline is more accurate, but clearly it's something that Sed opposes so I thought I'd throw it in there. |
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| Sedulius | Oct 6 2009, 04:26 PM Post #13 |
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Field Marshal
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OOC: In all technicality, this is EXACTLY the same as before, though this declaration was made post-war, while the Celtic Catholic Church was formed during the war with the Dominion. Original post was July 13th. That said, it has recently changed in vision, which was only mentioned OOC, though it was also changed in the thread name. Funny that that got this attention now rather than when it was originally posted. ----- IC: The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland is a part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. The Genesian Church is the heresy, establishing the doctrine of Papal bloodline. I have made this argument time and again. Why would God have a single bloodline of men to rule his Church? He would not, for such a things is fully and obviously corrupt, as I think the atrocities of the Genesian Church over the centuries have proven. The Medici bloodline should never have ruled. A Pope elected by his peers is a system that ensures a purer, holier man holds the office. We ask that the Colognians join us in our movement. We understand why they do not, but surely they can see the Genesian heresy, the Genesian stranglehold over Catholicism has gone on long enough. We are willing to negotiate and coordinate with the Colognian Church, both on this issue and on others. -Ruadhrí Ó Faoláin, Archbishop of Armagh, Primate of All Ireland ----- To the Hochmeister, please inform me exactly why the actions of this church are heresy. It seeks to overthrow the Papal Bloodline and restore Papal Election, among other things. It seeks a return to older, better ways. As of right now, your order is but a pawn of the Genesian Church. The Genesian Pope allows you to continue as you do only because he finds you useful, and when you become an inconvenience, you will be cast aside and betrayed. Such is the way of the Medici Popes. -Grandmaster Stiofan Paul Uí Siadhail |
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| Union | Oct 6 2009, 04:48 PM Post #14 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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God made St. Peter the rock upon which the Church may develop. The descendants of St. Peter are the rightful continuation of that title. What passage of the Holy Book do the Irish have to back their claims that a bloodline is against the will of God? |
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| Filo | Oct 6 2009, 05:51 PM Post #15 |
General
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Official statement from Wien Chancellery Be ignored offends the person of the emperor. His Majesty once again, calls messengers to his presence to discuss this topic. Although His Majesty knows that times have changed and that his sacred person is no longer the only other sun in the sky of Christendom, His Majesty is aware of the duty that he owes to the Holy Roman Church as the Holy Roman Empire. |
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| Filo | Oct 6 2009, 05:52 PM Post #16 |
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General
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OCC: Philip as Roman emperor in the west wishes to look this topic in first lines and calls for delegate of Irish Church. To not answer will be very offensive. |
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| Sedulius | Oct 6 2009, 08:06 PM Post #17 |
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Field Marshal
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OOC: Sorry Filo, didn't catch your post yesterday. I will reply. But first, to respond to the Genesians... I may be a bit out of my water here since I don't have this sort of thing memorized... IC: You misinterpret the doctrine. Your church has been so corrupted by the Medici line that they have led you to believe this is the truth. You are no better than those of Shi'a Islam, whom believed only descendants of Muhammad's designated successor could be Caliph. Are you so wild in the mind that you believe leadership of the church has anything to do with blood? Only Jesus himself was pure. All men are corrupt. Containing the leadership of the church within one family line only ensures the continuation of this corruption. An elected Pope can at least be screened through his peers. It is your Pride that keeps the Medici line in place, the sin most deadly. -Ruadhrí Ó Faoláin, Archbishop of Armagh, Primate of All Ireland ----- To: His imperial majesty, Philipp II° Von Hapsburg-Lotharinghen From: Ruadhrí Ó Faoláin, Archbishop of Armagh, Primate of All Ireland The Roman Catholic Church in Ireland shall send Proinnsias Mag Uidhir, Archbishop of Cashel to your call. Also, I am told the High King sends his regards. He would like to meet with you himself when he has the time. |
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| Filo | Oct 7 2009, 05:39 AM Post #18 |
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General
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OCC: when you wish write their arrival in Wien-. I suppose you shopuld try to win imperial support, may be helpefull for Irish church? IC:His Imperial Majesty has prepared a great reception for the personalities that will be sent by the Church of Ireland. Same primate of Austria. Cardinal Shoenborn, wait for the meeting. His Majesty will investigate this new church and its doctrines. His Majesty Philip II was deeply concerned about the chaos that reigns in the church and is eager to promote the unity of all Christians. |
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| Union | Oct 7 2009, 12:36 PM Post #19 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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You say an elected Pope would be screened by his peers. The implication, of course, being that the peers of a man would be appropriate judges of whom is to be the direct link between God. This is blasphemy. Men are imperfect creatures. God has ordained the blood of St. Peter to lead his Church. If God does not like a candidate, God may remove him at any time. Are you implying that God is fallible, or powerless to ensure his Church falls into the hands of those good or holy? Who are men to choose the link between He and this mortal Earth? It is not men who choose the Pope, but God! He chooses who lives or dies! He chooses who ascends or does not! My son, the arrogance of the Enlightenment has clouded your vision. You attack God's church with weapons. You proclaim that man is superior to His holy judgment. God has delivered you to us this day to test our faith and resolve, and it gives me great hope to see the temptations of Satan so fully rejected, and despair still that some of God's children have fallen under the sway of such ideas. The Holy Book is clear - it is on the blood of St. Peter that we must build our church, not on the votes of mere men. God's will be done! Cardinal Federico Gonzales-Mayor Edited by Union, Oct 7 2009, 12:40 PM.
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| Kasnyia | Oct 7 2009, 01:08 PM Post #20 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Join you? We were prepared to negotiate with the Irish Church beforehand and were and always would be the first to the table. But then in your announcement to supposedly restore the church, the Irish Church believes it has the authority to tell Cologne it has strayed from the values of Catholocism? The Irish Church believes we, who extended our hand in fellowship after the War, would keep our hand extended after insulting Cologne? Nay. We will not join such an arrogant sect, even against those who would pretend to have the sole monopoly on God. May you and the Genesians fight among yourselves. Cologne will follow the path of peace and understanding as it always has and keep its efforts toward the Lord's children rather than politics. - Statement from Pope John David I OOC- Basically, you incensed Cologne with the original post, so they see no need to help you against the Genesians, especially since they see the Genesians as on their last legs with the fall of Catholic Europe. They're more worried about the Orthodoxy. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Oct 7 2009, 02:34 PM Post #21 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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If the Primate does not support the notion of Divine Right, then by what right does the King of Ireland rule? - Inquisitor Karamazov |
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| Sedulius | Oct 7 2009, 08:58 PM Post #22 |
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Field Marshal
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The High King of Ireland now takes authority over this matter. To Cardinal Federico Gonzales-Mayor: I say that it is not God who has chosen the Medici line, but it was rather Man who put them in place. The Holy Bible does not say that there should be a universal Church led by Popes descended of St. Peter's blood; your corrupt mind simply interprets it that way. The monasteries and chapter houses of Ireland have been centers of learning since before the Papal Bloodline was established. We have kept our traditions. You have not. They have found no policy of Papal Bloodline in the old churches. You are the heretic, not us. We do not claim to speak for God, but your Church certainly does. That is blasphemy. We are done with these arguments. Ireland will make no move of war upon the Genesians unless they threaten our brother Catholics. We can only hope others will see the light in time. ----- To the Pope John David I: The Catholic Church of Ireland apologizes for its former statements. Ireland will take the path of peace, but it will defend itself against the Genesians if they bring war upon it, and it will defend brother Catholics. ----- To the Inquisitor Karamazov: I rule because the people have given me the right to rule. ----- Public Statement I have allowed this to go on long enough. The Churches bicker and all our nations are threatened with war, when we should all be working together for peace. I am taking control over this matter. The Primate of Ireland is to be removed from his post. I will replace him, and this said I now step down as High King of Ireland, though I will retain the post of Grandmaster of the Order of Saint Patrick. My son, Prince William, is now High King. He will be crowned upon his return from France. I leave the fate of Ireland in his hands, but the matters of its Church our now mine to handle. Ireland's church is a Roman Catholic Church. That is, it is of the Latin traditions of the old Roman Empire. I do not recognize the Genesian Church. They are all old fools clinging to corrupt traditions, and I will have nothing more to do with them. I do recognize the Catholic Church of Cologne, but I cannot accept its Pope as the leader of all Christendom. The way I see it, Christendom was never meant to be led by a single man. Nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say so. I have always recognized the Orthodox Church as a true church. The doctrines of the churches here in Ireland are taken from pre-Schism teachings. I hereby ask that the Orthodox Church accept Ireland into its communion, but I ask that the people of Ireland be allowed to keep their Latin traditions, for that is our culture and our faith. As for the Order of Saint Patrick, it is hereby suspended as Military Order, and it shall now be a Hospitaller Order. I am sure the Irish military can reorganize to take in knights who wish to serve their High King and nation. |
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| Union | Oct 7 2009, 09:12 PM Post #23 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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You are incorrect. The Bible does say that one man shall be head of God's Church. It says so explicitly. Christ gave the Papacy the keys of the kingdom, and made the Pope the voice of God on this Earth. The Bible does not say that apostolic authority should pass by the votes of man. You do not speak for God. You are correct in saying you do not. You speak the words of Satan. It is you who have threatened war and Crusade on Rome. If you will embrace now the Orthodox, you deny the filioque, the primacy of the Apostolic authority and the Bishop of Rome, and any last shred of honor behind your claims. You are not a holy man - you are an oppurtunist, whose bid to seize power has failed, and who now turns to a wholly different set of heresies in the name of securing more temporal power. You claim to represent the people - it is twice now you have changed their religion on a whim. You claim power is given to you by the people - I do not see you running for election. -Cardinal Federico Gonzales-Mayor |
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| Sedulius | Oct 7 2009, 09:27 PM Post #24 |
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Field Marshal
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To Cardinal Federico Gonzales-Mayor: We can argue this all day. Please give the quote that says Christ did such a thing. The organization of the Church was decided by Man, mostly though the Councils of Nicaea. I say you are fabricating your argument off the basis of nothing. I only threatened war after the Genesians threatened war upon my nation for worshiping in the Irish way. I no longer threaten war. I am sorry I ever did. If you are truly Christian, you should forgive me of such a sin. I have always embraced Orthodoxy. I never converted from it. The filioque was added incorrectly, but should hardly be a point of contention as it is simply a matter of interpretation. I do recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, but I would only recognize a Bishop of Rome that was recognized as a Bishop of Rome by the Orthodox Patriarchs. The Genesian Pope is not recognized as such. He is nothing. I was elected for life when I first came to reunify Ireland. I have always done what I have thought right, though I admit my faults. I had allowed certain old idealisms to influence me, and I had allowed the former Primate of Ireland to influence me. The drastic changes I have instituted are intended to end these problems. From here on out, I serve only God. -Primate Stiofan ----- OOC: I only change this because I do not have the time to continue RPing this. Everyone is free to do as they please, and I may go along with one or the other. By all means, please do still have a war for Rome. Don't count Ireland out yet. I'm simply simplifying my system. One king, one primate, one army. |
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| Filo | Oct 8 2009, 03:37 AM Post #25 |
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General
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Stament from Vienna Although His Majesty is waiting for more detailed information about this church of Ireland, His Majesty believes that the words of the High Kings are right. Viewed the Primates of Austria and Hungary, called the Cardinal of Florence, His Majesty has therefore decided to give credence to the words of the Primate of Ireland and "de facto" does not recognize the church of Genesis as the true heir of the universal Catholic Church. His Majesty, however, before making a final decision is still waiting to be able to discuss openly with the delegates of the Irish clergy. |
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11:34 AM Jul 13