The Catholic Question

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The Catholic Question
Topic Started: Jul 9 2009, 09:12 PM (1,018 Views)
Ulgania	Jul 14 2009, 02:24 PM Post #51
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	NRE Jul 14 2009, 02:12 PM You know all this talk of Catholicism has made me miss me ole crazy Catholics in Africa. Thus (as I'm prone to change my mind constantly :lol: ) I've decided to bring back the Crazy Genesians a few of us grew to love in Africa ^^ Bullocks. I sent all of their least favorite Genesian radicals to Europe. :lol:



Sedulius	Jul 14 2009, 02:47 PM Post #52
Field Marshal Posts: 4,727 Group: Members Member #427 Joined: March 29, 2008	Alright, seeing as the entire Genesian Church is coming down upon me, I need allies to balance that out. Right now, though in word only, I'm allied with the Roman Empire, the NAN, and the Holy Roman Empire (though that could have legitimately ended with my separation from the Genesian Church). Filo controls the last two if I'm not mistaken, so he could only use one if he wanted in on the war. I'll open up a thread for negotiation to gain new allies. I'm most interested in Russia. EDIT: Of course, right now my top priority is to draft the ICON treaty and move that along. Edited by Sedulius, Jul 14 2009, 02:51 PM.



Ulgania	Jul 14 2009, 02:53 PM Post #53
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	You could seek non-Catholic allies, or secular allies.



Porcu	Jul 14 2009, 03:42 PM Post #54
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." Posts: 4,188 Group: Global Mods Member #415 Joined: February 19, 2008	Ahem :rolleyes:



lebowski2123	Jul 14 2009, 04:04 PM Post #55
Resident? Posts: 1,535 Group: Members Member #257 Joined: July 22, 2006	You don't need allies to balance it if you don't want any... :gnarkgnark:



Sedulius	Jul 14 2009, 04:10 PM Post #56
Field Marshal Posts: 4,727 Group: Members Member #427 Joined: March 29, 2008	I'm open to letting anyone ally with me who wishes, so long as they aren't *EVIL!*



Telosan	Jul 14 2009, 04:31 PM Post #57
The Foremost Intellectual Badass Posts: 3,893 Group: Map Makers Member #445 Joined: May 27, 2008	I'm still confused in this argument. Colonge's church is the NSWR equaivalent of the Eastern Orthodox, right? Genesian is the equivalent of the Roman Catholic church, right? Is there an Anglican church, or is Sed's Celtic church the closest to it? While TEu is Roman Catholic/Anglican (or whatever is their equivalent), I'd ally with you on this up to the point of actual war/excommunication. Then again, if Anglican is close enough to the Celtic church, I may request a merge and really side with you. Edited by Telosan, Jul 14 2009, 04:32 PM.



Rhadamanthus	Jul 14 2009, 04:37 PM Post #58
Legitimist Posts: 12,945 Group: Admin Member #19 Joined: January 13, 2004	Telosan Jul 14 2009, 04:31 PM I'm still confused in this argument. Colonge's church is the NSWR equaivalent of the Eastern Orthodox, right? Fuck no! The Orthodox Church is the NSWR equivalent of the Eastern Orthodox. Cologne is a rival papacy - think something like the Rome-Avignon split in real life.



NRE	Jul 14 2009, 04:46 PM Post #59
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman Posts: 9,266 Group: Admin Member #120 Joined: April 21, 2005	Genesian: Think Catholic Church in medieval times and during the Spanish inquisition. Genesian nations operate inquisitions, we burn heretics at the stake and its been the practice of many Genesian nations to force lesser nations to convert. Also our Popes have been Pope Emperors, that is they serve both as the Spiritual Head of the Church as well as the Emperors of Catholic Europe. All Popes for over a hundred years (maybe thousand) have been of one royal family, the dos Santos Aveiro-Medici family. The family has many branches in some of the most prominent Genesian nations such as New Harumf, Veloyra (I believe), and the Catholic Hegemony of South Africa. Cologne: Cologne was founded by Saxe-Coburg and Poland as an alternative to the Genesian Catholic Church. They were more in line with the RL Catholic Church of modern times. They were opposed to burning heretics, forced conversions to the faith, and operating inquisitions to name a few of their complaints. They also elect their own Papacy verses having a hereditary one like the Genesians. Its been a long time since a Colognian Pope has issued any sort of Papal decree so most of what I know comes from its founding days. Basically Cologne was created as an alternative to the more hardline Genesian church that CE ran plus is also gave member's the option to actually play as a Pope. Edited by NRE, Jul 14 2009, 04:47 PM.



Telosan	Jul 14 2009, 04:50 PM Post #60
The Foremost Intellectual Badass Posts: 3,893 Group: Map Makers Member #445 Joined: May 27, 2008	Alright, my nations are Colognian. There is no Anglican church, right?



Sedulius	Jul 14 2009, 04:54 PM Post #61
Field Marshal Posts: 4,727 Group: Members Member #427 Joined: March 29, 2008	:lol: F*** no! :lol: Eastern Orthodox Church is the Eastern Orthodox Church. Genesian Church is a skewed Roman Catholic Church. I'd say it's kind of like the Church under the Medici Popes in RL, though most of its Popes aren't as bloodthirsty as the Medici family (some are). Colognian Church is like the RL modern Roman Catholic Church. The Old Church (which the Celtic Church is a part of) is like the Roman Catholic Church at the time of Pope Leo III. Charlemagne went to the Irish to revive the Church in the West during this time. That is set before the time CE started to change the Church. Essentially, it's my attempt to bring a more authentic feeling Catholic Church to the game. The Celtic Church does officially think of itself as part of the true Roman Catholic Church. The largest difference between the Old Church and the other Catholic Churches is that it has no Pope. Rather, it seeks to restore a Pope of its thinking to being the Bishop of Rome by election. The Anglican Church does exist, but it is extremely minor in our world.



NRE	Jul 14 2009, 04:59 PM Post #62
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman Posts: 9,266 Group: Admin Member #120 Joined: April 21, 2005	Telosan Jul 14 2009, 04:50 PM Alright, my nations are Colognian. There is no Anglican church, right? I think Free Britain may have dabbled in an Anglican church, but never (to my knowledge) made it a big part of this world. Oh and I've been meaning to call a conference of Protestant churches for months now. I actually did it once but then let it sink before I actually got it off the ground. I still have plans to do so, so if people have any protestant churches (which I now know a few do) keep on the look out! EDIT: You know with all this confusion over the churches, it makes me wonder....did anyone even read our introduction thread which explained the churches and other aspects in our world? Edited by NRE, Jul 14 2009, 05:03 PM.



Ulgania	Jul 14 2009, 05:13 PM Post #63
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	NRE Jul 14 2009, 04:59 PM EDIT: You know with all this confusion over the churches, it makes me wonder....did anyone even read our introduction thread which explained the churches and other aspects in our world? I've seen intro stuff with a couple of general blurbs... nothing specific about IC events though



NRE	Jul 14 2009, 05:14 PM Post #64
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman Posts: 9,266 Group: Admin Member #120 Joined: April 21, 2005	Ulgania Jul 14 2009, 05:13 PM NRE Jul 14 2009, 04:59 PM EDIT: You know with all this confusion over the churches, it makes me wonder....did anyone even read our introduction thread which explained the churches and other aspects in our world? I've seen intro stuff with a couple of general blurbs... nothing specific about IC events though Well yes its true it had no IC history, but last i checked it seemed to lay out the differences between the two Catholic Churches very well and wouldn't have prompted this discussion, well at least not some of the questions which previously began all the ranting :lol:



Ulgania	Jul 14 2009, 05:17 PM Post #65
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	I meant this from the read me topic" Quote: -What�s religion like in our world? Religion like in the real world, is a complicated matter. Some religions in our world follow the dogmas of their real life counterparts while others do not. Still many others are religions solely made up by the players themselves and have no basis in real religious practices. When it comes to the practice of a religion, a player is free to practice whatever religion it believes it's nation should practice, or no religion at all if that is desired. A player is also free to start it's own religion. If a nation should choose to take this path you should understand that you cannot make another nation follow your religious belief however there is nothing against asking for permission to allow your religion to spread into other nations. Before you make a choice about religion in your country, is is highly suggested that you check out this thread, which details all the existing religions in our world to date and the important nations to contact if you want to know more. Link to what you meant?



NRE	Jul 14 2009, 05:23 PM Post #66
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman Posts: 9,266 Group: Admin Member #120 Joined: April 21, 2005	huh I thought Q went into more detail than that. Oh well you were right although I did notice that Nag has a draft that is more to what i was talking about. I think it needs some editing of course but overall it would alleviate this problem in the future and should be added. I'll edit it myself a bit and then see what people think.



Sedulius	Jul 14 2009, 05:24 PM Post #67
Field Marshal Posts: 4,727 Group: Members Member #427 Joined: March 29, 2008	I've read it before, though I don't completely remember it. That said, I have enough of an understanding of the Churches to have gotten this far.



Telosan	Jul 14 2009, 05:36 PM Post #68
The Foremost Intellectual Badass Posts: 3,893 Group: Map Makers Member #445 Joined: May 27, 2008	We have an introduction thread? Since the inhabitants of the British Isles history and culture are so intertwined, I guess it's safe to assume the Celtic church is similar to the Anglican church. The Menhadian Scots have thier own church which is merging with the Celtic church. Can Telosan's Anglican church also merge? The rest of TEu is Colognian. Are both the Genesians and the Colognians jumping on the Celtics? I beleive I said TAm is Protestant. They're already friendly with the Confederacy, so they'd jump right into a protestant conference thing if the Confederacy holds it.



Sedulius	Jul 14 2009, 05:48 PM Post #69
Field Marshal Posts: 4,727 Group: Members Member #427 Joined: March 29, 2008	It's NOT safe to assume the Anglican Church is similar to the Celtic Church. The Anglican Church would have been formed by a Henry VIII who separated from the Genesian Church. 2.9% of Ireland's population is part of the Church of Ireland, which is Anglican. 87.4% of Ireland's population is Old Roman Catholic (Celtic Catholic). Notably, 87.4% of Ireland's population is Irish (the rest are of other ethnicities). Edited by Sedulius, Jul 14 2009, 05:53 PM.



Rhadamanthus	Jul 15 2009, 12:13 AM Post #70
Legitimist Posts: 12,945 Group: Admin Member #19 Joined: January 13, 2004	Does the Celtic Church accept the teachings of the Council of Trent?



Sedulius	Jul 15 2009, 02:03 PM Post #71
Field Marshal Posts: 4,727 Group: Members Member #427 Joined: March 29, 2008	I suppose not, since that happened way after Pope Leo III. I would ask if the Genesian Church ever even held the Council of Trent, and if so, what did they decide at it? Also, to further answer Telo, anyone can join the Old Catholics if they accept their teachings. I have an Old Church thread in International Relations. But you need to make up your mind soon enough. Toussaint labeled you as Old Catholic on the religious map. You need to specify which territories are Colognian and which territories are Anglican (which would be counted as Protestant), and specify which you want to be Old Catholic, if you're going that route.



Rhadamanthus	Jul 15 2009, 02:06 PM Post #72
Legitimist Posts: 12,945 Group: Admin Member #19 Joined: January 13, 2004	Sedulius Jul 15 2009, 02:03 PM I suppose not, since that happened way after Pope Leo III. So your Church represents the Church in the age of Pope Leo III, doctrinally? So does that mean that your Church does not incorporate the filioque in the Nicene-Constantinopolian Creed as Pope Leo III opposed its inclusion in that creed?



Telosan	Jul 15 2009, 06:21 PM Post #73
The Foremost Intellectual Badass Posts: 3,893 Group: Map Makers Member #445 Joined: May 27, 2008	TEu will be Anglican/old church/whatever.



Rhadamanthus	Jul 15 2009, 09:10 PM Post #74
Legitimist Posts: 12,945 Group: Admin Member #19 Joined: January 13, 2004	Sedulius Jul 15 2009, 02:03 PM I suppose not, since that happened way after Pope Leo III. I would ask if the Genesian Church ever even held the Council of Trent, and if so, what did they decide at it? A friend of the forum wanted to answer your question here as follows: Quote: my answer would be this, do you find it makes sense in terms of NSWR RP's?: all the events and people of the RL catholic church are part of genesian history; this includes all the popes, such as the late john paul II or the current benedict XVI. conceptually, all of genesian catholicism's divergences from RL catholicism could be considered to have occurred after the RL year 2009 (or whatever the current year is at any time)



Abnar	Jul 15 2009, 11:35 PM Post #75
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all? Posts: 1,369 Group: Veterans Member #303 Joined: December 4, 2006	For a Muslim nation, Abnar has a history of generally-friendly relations with non-Muslim nations, including Romania (Renamed by RD to something else by now) and Scythirus. That, and a Muslim nation in Europe is goin to need whatever allies it can get. :gnarkgnark:


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