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| The Histories | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 6 2009, 09:59 PM (327 Views) | |
| Quaon | Jun 6 2009, 09:59 PM Post #1 |
A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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I have for a long time tried to resolve the conflicting histories of NSWR. This is by no means official, and uses the Turtledovian approach of "historical events being due", but I felt that it might be interesting. The Roman Empire divided into two as in the original timeline (OTL). Constantinople would become the capital the east, Rome would remain capital of the west. While the western empire would to a good degree disintegrate, the final sacking of Rome would never occur, and the Pope would gain increasing influence over the western emperor. Justinian attempts to reunite the Roman Empire as in OTL. However, in this timeline (TTL), the Pope would find this idea repugnant. Deposing the western emperor, he summoned an army of Catholic Germans and Italians to hold the Italian peninsula in what is considered a proto-crusade. While the western empire loses Sicily, it maintains its grip upon the Italian peninsula. Justinian never completes his conquest, and the Pope now has control of the western empire. Islam comes into existence as OTL except where it obviously conflicts with TTL. Islam never conquers Egypt. However, it does manage to eventually conquer Palestine, cutting off the African territories of the Empire of the Romans. The Emperor asks the Pope for aid. In response, the Pope raises an army of both Italians and barbarians. However, this First Crusade, instead of simply camping outside Constantinople, decides to sack the city before its advance into Palestine. It conquers Greece and a great deal of Anatolia and sets up vassal states under the Papacy. The Syrian Greeks make peace after a protracted war, and the Crusaders go onto Palestine and conquer it. The Pope, elated at the news of the conquest of Constantinople, orders the Patriarch there to declare the supremacy of the Pope in all spiritual manners. The Patriarch refuses and flees south to the parts of Syria still controlled by the east Romans. The Pope, enraged, excommunicates the Patriarch and all who side with him. This is the rift that causes the break between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. To add insult to injury, the Pope decides to take residence in Constantinople, which he renames Genesis. He orders the expulsion of all Jews and all Greeks who recognized the Patriarch of Constantinople. Alexandria becomes the new capital of the Empire of the Romans. Centuries to be filled in here. The British conquer Egypt. A few decades later. World War I happens, the Empire of the Romans allies with Germany but is conquered by the English (it is unclear if Great Britain was ever united in TTL) and the French, with aid from the Western Roman Empire (now Catholic Europe). Catholic Europe expands its borders slightly to the south. Palestine is reserved for the Jews. What would become Paradise is currently contested between the Hashemites and the House of Saud. This occurs more or less as OTL. World War II occurs. Catholic Europe remains neutral. After the war, the Greek Syrians rebel against the French. Englishmen in Egypt and parts of Palestine and Arabia declare their independence (Egypt has remained under English dominion longer than in OTL) and form United Elias, in which an apartheid system is established over the Greeks in Egypt and the Muslims in Arabia were inferior to their white English counterparts. The Empire is re-established in independent Syria. I might try and do a history of Russia next. I reiterate: THIS IS BY NO MEANS OFFICIAL OR "CANON". Edited by Quaon, Jun 6 2009, 09:59 PM.
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jun 6 2009, 11:16 PM Post #2 |
Science and Industry
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This sounds like an awesome project. It looks great so far. One minor quibble though. IIRC United Elias was an alliance of Jews and Muslim Arabs. Its hereditary rulers were Jewish. They may have seceded from the British Empire but I don't think Englishmen played a large role in its national situation.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jun 6 2009, 11:40 PM.
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| Rhadamanthus | Jun 7 2009, 10:44 AM Post #3 |
Legitimist
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Fascinating synthesis. Nice work Quaon! |
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| Ulgania | Jun 7 2009, 12:13 PM Post #4 |
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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Wow, I've always wondered about a few of these details. Very nice! Question: have any notable states occupied my chunk of land in southern Africa? I've always wanted to reflect on a past history for Ulgania but never found anything useful... |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jun 7 2009, 11:23 PM Post #5 |
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Science and Industry
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When I first joined the forum I played as the nation of South Africa in the present day location of Ulgania. I like to think of it as "notable" in its day. That country started out as a militant, white supremacist apartheid state that kept the black man down. It attempted to conquer its neighbor Neo-Macedonia (formerly played by NRE), but got defeated by a coalition of African states led by one of the most powerful countries in early NSWR history, Patrua. This was called the South African War, and was the second major war in African Continent history after the Al-Ittihad War. (As a side note, the Al-Ittihad War remains one of my favorite wars and was really what inspired me to start RP'ing with this community back when I was a newbie. Ah nostalgia!) Anyways the victors of the South African War ended the Apartheid system, and the country was run by a series of native African governments. It eventually became a monarchy headed by an Emperor who frequently changed religions for political purposes. He initially converted the country to Genesian Catholicism, but then he decided to separate from Genesis City and create his own religion. This plan failed, though, because most of the common people were still loyal to Genesis City. The religiously vacillating regime was overthrown by the people, leading to the country eventually being annexed by Neo-Macedonia (which at the time was also experiencing an increase in the Genesian Catholic religion). Neo-Macedonia eventually evolved into the Catholic theocracy known as the Holy Catholic Hegemony. I can tell you more and/or dig up more material from the old threads if you're interested in incorporating any of this into your history. Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jun 7 2009, 11:36 PM.
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| Filo | Jun 8 2009, 06:17 AM Post #6 |
General
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I can said something about NAN and HRE. Hungarian history is the same of OTL except when collide with other nations one. So for exemple i belive that Hungary lost Crotia to CE. and HRE is the same than OTL NAN are a young nation are born at the start of XXI century. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jun 8 2009, 01:06 PM Post #7 |
The Devil's Advocate
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CE has said many-a-time that Constantinople has never been the official name of that city. The current "reconciliation" of this fact goes as follows: The Roman Empire becomes Catholic Europe when Constantine founds Nova Roma over the site of Byzantium. ITT Constantine converts to Catholicism and the city is re-named Genesis (not Constantinople) and the fledgling Papacy takes over the Empire and moves to Genesis - leaving the fledgling Patriarch of Nova Roma without a province. "The City That Constantine Built" becomes known as "Constantinople" when the Patriarchs cede from the Church of Genesis due to the Pope ruling that he was above the other Patriarchs. These Orthodox follow the teachings that the Church was founded on and hold "Constantinople" as an ideal for what the Christian church should be rather than what Genesis City actually is. The displaced Patriarch of Constantinople is thus held up as a shining example of what should have been and as to the hubris and cold heartedness of the Pope. [Edit] Not that I'm dictating to their history to the Orthodox players, that's just the compromise we worked out. And I'm certainly not dictating to Quaon, this is a great project and he's free to take liberties if he wants. Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Jun 8 2009, 03:46 PM.
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| Filo | Jun 8 2009, 01:13 PM Post #8 |
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General
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I should add that NAN use a virus to infect white men in Dakotas and Montana free this lands for the red men |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jun 8 2009, 01:17 PM Post #9 |
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Science and Industry
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:lol: :lol: What a crazy world this is. |
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| Quaon | Jun 8 2009, 02:05 PM Post #10 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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Which is irrelevant, as this is not meant to be a canon explanation. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jun 8 2009, 02:27 PM Post #11 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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Meh. Your project. I mean this in a supportive way: do what you like. I don't see why your version of history is better. But if you want to "resolve" history a different way that's up to you. Makes no difference to me or my nations. I just don't see why you'd want or need to go against the (admittedly weak) canon explanation when that explanation isn't causing a problem. Hell, if we're just unofficially rewriting things to be the way we like, then shouldn't this go in AU? (Again, trying to help you - this is an interesting read and I'd love to see it finished, not asking you to do anything you don't want to do. If you don't want this kind of input then just say (it's not like I'll be offended - just trying to help is all).) Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Jun 8 2009, 02:35 PM.
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| Quaon | Jun 8 2009, 03:09 PM Post #12 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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Because if Constantinople was Catholic early on Orthodox Russia is nonsensical. If you want to move it to AU, feel free but I feel it doesn't fit best there. This is more or less a personal project, to work out the various inconsistencies that have bothered me for a while. If people want to accept this, then I'm happy about that, but if they don't, that's fine too. Further, the only thing I'm considering sacrosanct here are things that were posted; national history will be accepted insofar as it does not provide obvious logical conflicts. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jun 8 2009, 03:45 PM Post #13 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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If you want it here, then it stays here. And most of our world is nonsensical. But if you want to try and reconcile it feel free. Lots of stuff doesn't make any logical sense, so that just makes me even more interested to see how this finishes. :) (That said the Constantinople thing was posted and Constantinople being called Constantinople doesn't appear in CE's history threads which go back a long way. But, as I said before and as you've made clear: this is your project do what you want.) [Edit] As I said, your (very interesting) project. Really, do whatever you want. It's fun and creative and I don't wanna mess it up. Just trying to help. Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Jun 9 2009, 05:39 AM.
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| Rhadamanthus | Jun 8 2009, 04:33 PM Post #14 |
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Legitimist
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Presumably they became Orthodox because they did not want to be heretics. Additionallry, IRL, Grand Prince Vladimir is said to have sent emissaries to the Orthodox, Catholics, and Muslims before deciding which religion to adopt. He still could have done so. |
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| Filo | Jun 9 2009, 04:01 AM Post #15 |
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General
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I think like Nag, you should try to armonize your history with other players has written down. I know that is a hard task, i'll try to do for HRE so we can see what happened. |
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11:36 AM Jul 13