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| So I've been rather distracted.; Damn you MMOs! | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 3 2009, 01:58 AM (1,970 Views) | |
| Quaon | Jul 2 2010, 11:46 PM Post #126 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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Further, why would a globalizing organization want to limit the free movement of people? Creating a xenophobic police state is completely counterproductive to globalization. North Korea is not a shining example of the New World Order. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 3 2010, 12:03 AM Post #127 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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This guy is a hundred people? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Dinh That's the writer of the PATRIOT Act.
Everything bears investigation. You challenged the article's view on the Oklahoma Bombing and I supplied the evidence that calls McVeigh's confession into question. I do not let the government spoonfeed me the story. For example, I've spent several years looking at 9-11 and have come to the conclusion that the official conspiracy theory about Muslims doesn't add up. There's too much inconsistency. Anyway, I do believe earlier Harumf voiced his distrust of the Oklahoma story. If you want to argue the miniscule points, take it with him because as I said, I know very little about it. I can supply you with a few links concerning the problems people have with the official account. http://www.examiner.com/x-6495-US-Intelligence-Examiner~y2009m9d28-Oklahoma-City-bombing-tapes-erased http://donttreadoncat.com/2010/05/wearechangeoklahoma-sgt-terrance-yeakey-oklahoma-city-bombing/ Take from that what you will.
Attacking a person you are arguing with is a sign of desperation and losing the argument.
Once upon a time, before 2009, passports were only used for extracontinental travel for citizens of North America. All you needed was a record of your visit and basic I.D. Now we're being monitored by mandatory passports with RFID chips in them.
That's why North Korea will likely be the next target after Iran. Remember that "new Axis of Evil" of Iraq-Iran-North Korea? The U.S. police state; however, will not be "xenophobic" as it will make regular use of foreign police and troops. See that Interpol Diplomatic Immunity and this: http://www.praguemonitor.com/2010/06/23/czechs-help-establish-chemical-warfare-unit-texas Also, it is contemplating amnesty for the illegals living here. Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 3 2010, 12:11 AM.
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| Union | Jul 3 2010, 12:11 AM Post #128 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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The Patriot Act was passed a month later, not a week, and you have clearly never worked in government if you believe Viet D. Dinh did anything but supervise the writing process. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 3 2010, 12:12 AM Post #129 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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I said PROPOSED! |
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| Union | Jul 3 2010, 12:16 AM Post #130 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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Regardless, Vien did not single-handily write the USA PATRIOT Act. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 3 2010, 12:27 AM Post #131 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Well, he copy pasted most of it from earlier stuff as per the article stated, sooo.... You don't seem to be comprehending that they tried passing the general same content for decades prior to 9-11. Then... it happens and "whoohoo!" Rushed through Congress. |
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| Quaon | Jul 3 2010, 12:32 AM Post #132 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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Timothy McVeigh did a series of interviews where he explained exactly what he did and expounded upon why he was justified. He blew the building up. That is the end of the story. Vien did not write the Patriot Act, he supervised it. As Union said, you have no experience whatsoever with government. Politicians have armies of people working under them that do the heavy lifting. Well, those were wasted years of your life. Considering you reopened this debate with a personal attack on me, I don't think you really ought to be talking. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jul 3 2010, 12:34 AM Post #133 |
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Science and Industry
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There is nothing inherently suspicious about that. Many laws are based on ideas percolating for years or decades before, and only become enacted by some precipitating event or shift in the political winds. For example the Civil Rights Act of 1964 plagiarized, word for word, material dating all the way back to Reconstruction. (The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is pretty much a copypasta of the Civil Rights Act of 1875, which had been struck down by the Supreme Court in 1883) An alternative interpretation to the quick passage of the Patriot Act is just that the people behind it were quick to use Islamic terrorists' attack on the WTC as an excuse to pass the security law they've always wanted. Sure, they evilly took advantage of a crisis but that does not inherently provide evidence against or in favor of any possible theory of 9/11, whether the official story or the conspiracy theories. Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jul 3 2010, 12:48 AM.
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 3 2010, 01:09 AM Post #134 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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His testimony's unreliable. Apparently he contradicts himself frequently. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6tqQFNHg3M8J:community.livejournal.com/anarchists/2647318.html+mcveigh+contradicts+himself&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5piFEeTWwSsJ:www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/february2007/220207okcrevelations.htm+mcveigh+contradicted+himself&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Um... and everyone edits their own section? Rub out all the inconsistencies and faults? Independently? The rush job on such a polished, large document is astounding. It takes roughly a year to publish a book, and they have an army of people at their disposal. The Patriot Act is very much the size of a book. A textbook to be exact.
Another personal attack?
Really? You were trolling. Everywhere I posted, even if there wasn't a mention of Infowars anywhere, you were posting: "Infowars sux." That's trolling. That's stalking. How was my mentioning fact an attack? |
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| Quaon | Jul 3 2010, 01:29 AM Post #135 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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Are you kidding me? You linked me a livejournal entry as evidence? For one, the only guy who, from a cursory reading (no way I'm going through that entire discussion), says anything about contradictions, is talking about internal ones: I.e., McVeigh's rationale for his actions is inconsistent, not that he undertook them. The only person who actually actively denies anything, I think, is some freak with a cloning allegation. Either you didn't read what you linked me or you do not understand even basic levels of subtlety (which would not be surprising, considering the fact that you equivocate the idea that certain parts of the PATRIOT act were cribbed from past attempts with OMG THE PATRIOT ACT WAS WRITTEN B4 9/11! and the idea that Vien supervised the writing with OMG HE WROTE IT HIMSELF For one, writing and publishing are too very different things. A single writer writes a book - and that can take anywhere from a month to a decade. Several editors edit it. The writer must be considered with aesthetics and readability. People writing in legalese are concerned with neither, and have scores of other people working with them. The fact that you are contesting this is ludicrous. All of the places I posted you had posted a link to infowars or a similar conspiracy site. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 3 2010, 01:45 AM Post #136 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Individual reviews are individual reviews. I was looking for what people had to say and stumbled across that along with the other. The other link I gave claims his testimony changed with the government's.
Eh. Yeah, I don't think cloning technology was that advanced either.
What I'm doubting is "a hundred people" wrote it. Most sections were classified thus preventing Congress to read those sections. How many lawyers have that level of clearance?
They do care about laws being consistent with themselves. Laws are far more technical and complex than most books. Unless you're reading a technical manual which, I would assume needs to be very consistent with itself.
Only one had Infowars links. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jul 3 2010, 08:23 AM Post #137 |
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Legitimist
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As a reminder, while a debate can get heated, I don't want to see any personal attacks here, no matter who started it. Some of the comments have been pushing it.
Edited by Rhadamanthus, Jul 3 2010, 08:24 AM.
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| New Harumf | Jul 3 2010, 08:52 AM Post #138 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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R.D., up yours (in a loving, non-threatening way). Tm McVeigh - ex-soldier - could have been "following orders." L.H. Oswald - ex-soldier - could have been "following orders." Vince Foster - murdered by the command of the Clintons. Are you all so nieve to think our Government isn't low enough to do these sort of things? Remember what happened with the first Roman Republic - threat of invasion from outside, so in panic and fear of a crisis, they strip themselves of power "temporarily", and invite Sulla in as a dictator to handle the crisis. End of the First Republic. It's as old a game in politics as there is - Ceaser used it, Nepoleon used it, Hitler used it. Washington could have easily used it, which is why he is so unusual in history. So, if you don't have a threat to your republic from outside, you make one, and the senate panics, and strips themselves of certain powers "temporarily" and gives more power to the executive branch, where lies the commander of the military (i.e. Sulla, Caeser, Napoleon, Hitler and his Brown Shirts, the only army Germany had at the time). Whether the events were created by the government, encouraged by the government, or just initially ignored by the government, doesn't matter much. The result is the same - power is "temporarily" transfered from the republic to a dictator, and it is never regained. |
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| Quaon | Jul 3 2010, 12:38 PM Post #139 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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And again, this doubt shows your lack of familiarity with the way government works. The financial reform act is over 2,000 pages. It did not take a year to write. Dude, get off this point. Laws are written quickly. That is how things work. Also, let's review the threads where I responded to you: http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/7379496/1/#new The second part of this post was a response to Harumf calling the cops fascists - I questioned that, as I generally do not like seeing the word fascist thrown around baselessly - it's a rather specific term and its use as a political epithet annoys me. No mention of infowars, and nothing trolling you. http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/7381002/1/#new I googled "Barack Obama bathouses". The first link there is infowars, so it seemed likely to me that your source was infowars. When you replied with others links I said not one of those links was from a credible source. http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/7337672/2/ You post a large number of infowars links. I call bullshit. Following orders all the way to his execution? Oswald was a known communist sympathizer who had attempted to settle in the USSR. Unlikely. Unsubstantiated. No. However, the bad shit the government does is generally not in the United States, for a number of reasons. (1) The CIA has no operations mandate within US territory, (2) it is much harder to get away with big things within the US than without, (3) people are short-sided and are much less likely to give a shit about things happening abroad. Most of the really bad stuff the government has done covertly have failed to stay covert for long - arming the Contras, trying to assassinate Castro, etc. - and, when they emerge from the dark, nobody gives a shit. Hell, we have a Hollywood movie glorifying the fact that we armed a bunch of backwards Jihadists in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion. When the government does evil, it's rarely on our shores - it's overseas, away from the public eye. Further, a question for the conspiracy theorist(s) - if the conspirators blew up the Twin Towers, why couldn't they have "found" WMD in Iraq? |
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| Union | Jul 3 2010, 04:03 PM Post #140 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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Once again, you clearly have never worked in government. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 3 2010, 05:15 PM Post #141 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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It didn't take a week, however. Don't say it did, because I've been following that evil Fed Empowerment Act since March.
No, not that quickly.
Really? You actually put his first name in? I just put in "Obama." On to your "Infowars" discovery, it just so turns out that it's not quite the right Infowars. http://info-wars.org/about/ Oh sure, they're probably fans of Alex Jones, but I doubt he has anything to personally do with the site.
Read my response there.
That was just an excuse to declare war and reportably, the Bilderbergs were actually split on that decision. Anyway, the real point of the war and the other wars and the spendalot games of other government programs have more to do with something else that's rather sinister. Take a look at those links I gave Nag and pay especial attention to his responses on the wars and my response to him. Come on, you can figure it out. I gave enough clues. Hell, I'll give you another: It has to do with banking and currency. Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 3 2010, 05:17 PM.
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| Quaon | Jul 3 2010, 05:28 PM Post #142 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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You're wrong. I'm not arguing this further. You're wrong. What TC said makes sense. Funny thing: all your non-infowars links don't say what you claim they say. They note that the drug trade in Afghanistan has grown; they also note that this has been occurring in Taliban controlled areas; the US government is not trafficking opiates. The only one that says otherwise is Press TV, which is the Iranian State Media. How do you know this? You say the NWO is the most insidious organization of all time, and yet you have people sitting in on their meetings? Much easier explanation of Iraq: Bush wanted to finish his father's job, secure US dominance of oil reserves in the Middle East; cabinet likes second part. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 3 2010, 05:54 PM Post #143 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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And I say you're wrong.
And Russia. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8599008.stm Both sides of the story, Quaon. Both sides of the story.
It was a claim Jim Tucker made. He's had a history of infiltrating their meetings. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yC5FJRZpBgkJ:www.propagandamatrix.com/bilderberg_2002.html+bilderberg+split+iraq&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Don't sound so incredulous. You're the one claiming leaks never happened. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 3 2010, 07:41 PM Post #144 |
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Deleted User
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And what a damn good movie that was. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 5 2010, 12:10 AM Post #145 |
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Deleted User
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:rolleyes: The next thing to be discussed is the legitimacy of the US moon landing. |
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| Toussaint | Jul 5 2010, 12:57 AM Post #146 |
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Major
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| New Harumf | Jul 5 2010, 08:59 AM Post #147 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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I don't know about the moon landing, but the very first pictures of the surface of Mars had a Strohs beer can in it. Yes, it was that obvious, then, whoosh, that picture disappeared forever! |
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| Sedulius | Jul 5 2010, 10:42 AM Post #148 |
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Field Marshal
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SED SMASH! RAUGH! |
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| Aelius | Jul 5 2010, 12:17 PM Post #149 |
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Norman Warlord
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lolwut :lol: :huh: |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 5 2010, 02:01 PM Post #150 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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It took over 30 years for NASA to do the press release that explains why the flag is waving in the wind. |
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11:53 AM Jul 13