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| So I've been rather distracted.; Damn you MMOs! | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 3 2009, 01:58 AM (1,971 Views) | |
| Comrade Queen | Jul 1 2010, 10:52 PM Post #101 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Nothing melted huh? Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Apparently our eyes are lying to us. :rolleyes:
You haven't been able to counter it once. All you say is "electrical fire" because a debunker site says so. THIS is an electrical fire! The sparks go straight up and are bright white. The fluid in the WTC footage falls and is bright orange like molten steel. You're frankly full of crap.
A completely new physics called "pancake theory" that has never been seen anywhere else was INVENTED! http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_21.htm#sd
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm
And I redirect you to Harritt's paper which describes the presence of thermite in the WTC dust. http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM And who's going to question people with authorized ID anyhow?
AMEC. http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=4531
Blah blah blah blah. Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 1 2010, 10:53 PM.
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| Quaon | Jul 1 2010, 11:09 PM Post #102 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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Let me rephrase: no part of the WTC melted. That was aluminum from the plane, which melts at a much lower temperature than steel. Since my explanation for the destruction of the core columns had nothing to do with electrical fire, I'm going to assume you simply aren't reading my post. Which is not what I described; I described the NIST account of the collapse, which explicitly is not pancake theory - the NIST thinks Pancake theory is bullshit. Which could easily be trace material left over from construction. Further, the scientists involved in this are hacks. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 1 2010, 11:11 PM Post #103 |
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Deleted User
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:rolleyes: You have the same general lack of common courtesy, politeness, and common sense that all of the crazy conspiracy advocates posses. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 1 2010, 11:20 PM Post #104 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Tell that to the persisting heat and anomalously high temperatures. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/rubblefires.html http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/thermite.htm?q=thermite.htm
You can't even tell me what happened to them! They just didn't disappear!
No, what you described was pancake theory. http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/explanations.html NIST's is just a variant!
Says you. |
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| Quaon | Jul 1 2010, 11:35 PM Post #105 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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700 degrees Celsius? That's not anomalous - the fire in the WTC burned at 1000 degrees celsius! Aluminum alloys melt between 450 and 650 degrees celsius. They were in the rubble. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 1 2010, 11:43 PM Post #106 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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You didn't read the link, did you?
And here's your aluminum. The only thing orange in this video is the container.
Are you sure? They way you debunkers talk about the WTC you'd think the cores didn't exist! Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 1 2010, 11:43 PM.
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| Quaon | Jul 1 2010, 11:51 PM Post #107 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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That'd be really relevant if it weren't for the fact that aluminum has a very high melting point whereas aluminum alloy has a very low melting point. The way you "Truthers" talk about human nature, you'd think government agents were robots. Edit: Further, what does 700 degrees have to do with aluminum alloy in the first place? There were other things burning in the WTC. There's no reason to insist the only thing that could be burning was aluminum. Edited by Quaon, Jul 1 2010, 11:56 PM.
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 2 2010, 12:35 AM Post #108 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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I had a very hard time finding numbers for alloy melting times, but your favorite debunking source says this.
The temperatures in his NIST quote earlier defeat his own argument
So is it cool or is it hot? It can't be both.
I'm waiting on your opinion on that whistleblowing Sergeant. Also, death threats on family and big cash payments can easily make anyone work in your favor. That IS human nature. "Tell anyone and your whole family has a sudden series of mysterious accidents" or "Whoo-hoo! I'm goin' ta Disney world!" It depends on the morals. This is largely a psychology and sociology debate, though.
One, that ultimately proves that you only looked at the first paragraph. See what I did there? Here's the full section.
And also, there's a nice bit further down about a mysterious artifact dubbed "the Meteorite."
Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 2 2010, 01:05 AM.
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| New Harumf | Jul 2 2010, 07:50 AM Post #109 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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If you were watching the live feed of the collapse, as I was, you would see that as the top collapsed, the bottom was also buckling - as if a controlled explosion took place to bring the building down in its footprint. Subsequent replays seemed to add much dust at the bottom and you could not see it. As the first tower came down, I turned to a co-worker and said, "They had bombs in the building too! Damn!" |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 2 2010, 11:51 AM Post #110 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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Wheels within wheels man. I love how we have three kinds of people: 1. The Sheeple: Saddam is behind 9/11! Saddam has WMD! We're bringing Democracy to Saddam's people! The government is awesome! Put the rats on her! 2. The Amandas: I don't believe the government is evil enough to kill our own people, but it's evil enough to exploit their deaths, bomb civilians of another nation, cause the death of our soldiers and maintain invasion forces that prompt terrorist attacks. 3. The Crackpots: Nine years ago the government, for reasons unknown, attacked us, for benefits unclear, to achieve aims that I don't know about, but are assuredly evil. What did the US get from 9/11? Answer that and you see who's right. 9/11 was a terrorist attack. One in which the US government was complicit in (how many times were members of the plot detained before allowed on the planes?). One that the US government provoked with its foriegn policies. One that the US government had been warned about. One that the US government (both the current administration and the opposition) exploited. One that the US government had no reason to fake. Not to say they didn't have motive, simply that they could have done a much better job to achieve specific ends. Are we really expected to believe, what, that Bush faked an attack to take away our freedoms, only to slowly return most of them over four years so that the next government could have tighter restrictions on what you can take into a plane? That's a real sinister plot there. Real cost-effective too. C'mon. Clearly, this is not the US government version of Krystalnatch. Bush is not still in power. While there remains a cartel of powers behind the throne, no-one is clearly benefiting. The US government can and would do this: if it benefitted them. I just don't see the benefit. Yes, there are inconsistancies. Yes, there is circumstantial evidence of a plot. But there are inconsistancies with air traffic reports and poor quality pictures of UFOs doesn't prove the existance of extra-terristial life. For an event of this scale, there will always be grief, rationalisation, exploitists, crackpots and attention seekers. Give me a benefit. Point to what 9/11 achieved. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 2 2010, 12:24 PM Post #111 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/1/15/9533/54420 http://www.pcworld.com/article/123246/united_states_to_require_rfid_chips_in_passports.html http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/full-body-scanners-airports-good-bad-and-ugly http://radioviceonline.com/obama-executive-order-provides-interpol-diplomatic-immunity-update/ http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5502984/in_case_of_cyberterrorism_bill_proposed.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War http://whitehouser.com/policy/domestic/outrageous-gas-prices-and-americas-failing-economy/ http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/banking/p91828.asp http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jan/13/war-with-iran-nears/ The answer to your question is the gradual transformation of a free Republic into an authoritarian police state which can later be assimilated into a global government. 9-11 was their Reichstag Fire. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 2 2010, 12:53 PM Post #112 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act - Numerous sunset provisions http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/1/15/9533/54420 - Read the article. Stuff the government was already doing made legal. http://www.pcworld.com/article/123246/united_states_to_require_rfid_chips_in_passports.html - Containing the same information printed on the passport. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html - Standardising paperwork "Oh noes, I need a passport to fly!" http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/full-body-scanners-airports-good-bad-and-ugly - Yup, this is a direct result of 9/11. Or is the government secretly orchestrating all terrorist plots. http://radioviceonline.com/obama-executive-order-provides-interpol-diplomatic-immunity-update/ - Valid point. Not directly related to 9/11. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5502984/in_case_of_cyberterrorism_bill_proposed.html - Ooo a proposed bill that is utterly insane. We never got those before 9/11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror - Hugely costly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present) - Huge drain of public money, expenditure of lives. What exactly is the benefit here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War - Government could have just burned money and come out ahead here. http://whitehouser.com/policy/domestic/outrageous-gas-prices-and-americas-failing-economy/ - Doesn't mention 9/11, terrorism or even forming a OWO government. http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/banking/p91828.asp - See above and what I said about the cyberterrorism bill. Only this isn't even a proposed bill. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird - See above http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jan/13/war-with-iran-nears/ - Because that has nothing to do with an enemy of the States actually developing nukes and everything to do with 9/11 and the OWO. If the US government does want to transform the USA into an authoritarian police state, they didn't need to fake 9/11 to do that. In fact, most of your links (high oil prices, war with Iran, war on Iraq) shows real and practical ways to increase their power without blowing billions of dollars on orchestrating a fake terrorist attack. The Bush administration isn't even in power anymore. And critics of the government have yet to be murdered. In fact Obama wrote his ticket on the people's dissatisfaction with the Bush administration who wrote their ticket on 9/11. Your parallels to the Reichstag Fire are kinda flawed. Unless it's the secret powers behind the throne (the illuminati maybe) who are profiting from the actions of their puppets in Washington. Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Jul 2 2010, 12:59 PM.
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| Menhad | Jul 2 2010, 01:15 PM Post #113 |
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ET2(IDW)
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Which is hard to prove, but you can't disprove it either. Edited by Menhad, Jul 2 2010, 01:16 PM.
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 2 2010, 01:27 PM Post #114 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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http://biggovernment.com/sahiller/2010/02/28/obama-signs-patriot-act-extension-msm-and-the-left-silent/ It's not going away anytime soon. Don't forget that the huge document absurdly materialized only a couple weeks after 9-11. It was almost like they were... waiting for something. http://www.globalissues.org/article/342/the-usa-patriot-act-was-planned-before-911
Precisely. Think about that.
Making it redundant but allowing the information therein readable by ANYONE with a scanner without having to get near the person. http://www.spychips.com/alec-big-brother-barcode-article.html
And DRIVING across the damn border!
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/coincidence+of+bomb+exercises/109010 http://clareswinney.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/us-state-department-admits-underwear-bomber-allowed-on-plane-to-supposedly-help-with-investigations-into-al-qaida/
"Terrorism," anyone?
And because of all the fear and hoopla 9-11 created, it's got a better chance of passing.
You've touched on the tip of the iceberg here but then proceeded to miss the rest of its mass. Let's see how long it takes you to figure it out.
See cyber bill response.
Countries that aren't team players get targeted. Also, Iran has only started proposing to raise enrichment levels on their uranium. Beforehand, their levels were perfectly consistent with their claims for nuclear power. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/world/middleeast/10iran.html Gee... I wonder why they just decided to raise it.
A [fake] terrorist attack on the scale of 9-11 creates fear. It makes people afraid for their safety, so they look for someone or something to "protect them." In comes the police state legislation they otherwise never would have considered letting pass. Get it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 2 2010, 01:28 PM.
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| Deleted User | Jul 2 2010, 02:57 PM Post #115 |
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Deleted User
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Don't be stupid here. When there is major terrorist attack, the largest in history, of course Congress is going to work their asses to get a bill passed that would help prevent more terrorist attacks. They aren't going to sit around and take their time while national security is threatened. If the government was already passing laws like that, then why would they have to fake the WTC attack? There's no reason too. And besides, as Nag said, those restrictions that were placed gradually were removed. Big whoop. Like the name, nationality, gender, date of birth, and place of birth of the passport holder, as well as a digitized photograph of that person is that important. Its easy enough to grab that stuff. Government officials would have no problem getting info like that on a normal basis. Also, people don't carry their passport around with them everywhere. You know, illegal immigration is a big problem in America. There's an obvious reason to why we have it, not simply for national security. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 2 2010, 04:23 PM Post #116 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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BAAAA! BAAAA! Nevermind that the bombers were stopped using the security systems already in place, but then out of sheer idiocy let on the planes anyway. :rolleyes:
Some of them have been. Some haven't. The legal framework is in place to revive those that have, and to pass new restrictions.
Easy enough to get? Maybe. More than enough information for identity theft? You betcha.
Because, you know, this is the absolute best way of addressing illegal immigration... :rolleyes: |
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| Deleted User | Jul 2 2010, 09:00 PM Post #117 |
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Deleted User
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Regardless, we are talking about the patriot act here, it went it went further than just revamping the airport security system. One of its purposes was to root out terrorism and increase surveillance on them. To find the terrorists before they even go through the airport security, as well as trying to root out the ones already here. Its simply a common human reaction to see heighten security after an attack like that. They didn't have this planned, this is just a reaction. And you think they will pass with the Obama administration in power? You can get this information much more easily than scanning the microchips in people's passports. There's simply not that much you can do with that type of information. This chip is simply makes it harder for people to tamper and forge the passports. Also: (http://www.pcworld.com/article/123246/united_states_to_require_rfid_chips_in_passports.html) This makes it much harder for anyone to use a scanner to get the information. You would need to be within inches to get the info, not to mention you would have to have an RFID reader. It would be more continent to just look and read it at that point. It may not be the absolute best, but it certainly does help. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 2 2010, 09:21 PM Post #118 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Uh, that's what the entire point of 9-11, to give Congress incentive to pass shit like this. Nevermind that you just overlooked what I was saying here: The PATRIOT Act was already written! It was sitting and waiting for something like 9-11 to happen! Didn't you read the article?
IT WASN'T already passing laws like that. What it was already DOING was spying on American phone conversations... ILLEGALLY. Aren't you reading anything???
See Nag's response.
Once again, Nag said it. Illegal immigrants aren't coming through the border check points. They're swimming across the Rio Grande and climbing fences. This passport requirement SOLVES NOTHING! Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 2 2010, 09:22 PM.
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| Quaon | Jul 2 2010, 10:02 PM Post #119 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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lolwut The article, which was clearly written by a loon (and do note, I am in opposition to the USAPATRIOT Act), doesn't even say that said act was literally written beforehand; it said that certain provisions of the act had been proposed before. Further, the credibility of said article is nill, considering the fact that it alleges Oklahoma City was a government conspiracy, when Timothy McVeigh confessed to the attack. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 2 2010, 10:24 PM Post #120 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Um... first paragraph.
The article implies clearly that everything was pretty much copypasta'd into the one ginormous volume that Congress passed without reading. I sincerely doubt they could have written the whole thing from scratch in just a few weeks because the type face is small, free of errors, and several hundred pages long. It was prepped. As for McVeigh, and the Oklahoma City Bombing, there's been uncertainty about that for ages. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/mcveigh2.htm http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MCVEIGH+LAWYER:+CONFESSION+FAKE.(NEWS)-a064870697 http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services-miscellaneous-business/4680541-1.html |
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| Quaon | Jul 2 2010, 10:43 PM Post #121 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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The article makes an assertion in the first paragraph and then utterly fails to back it up. Further, you know nothing of how the government works because this is how most bills are made: they are composed quickly by various people working for Congressmen and tend to be voluminous. No. You have a pathological distrust of every official story. You believe implausible things because it fits your worldview, not because there's any logical sense to it. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 2 2010, 10:59 PM Post #122 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Do you know how long it takes to write 400 pages? And edit it? There's a reason term papers are called term papers. It takes the term to write. And don't forget the friggin' EDITING process in addition to writing. Also, I actually overstated the length of time they took to propose it... it wasn't a couple weeks... it was only... A WEEK. It's called copy pasting.
Yes. People wouldn't be talking about it otherwise. Thus "uncertainty." I haven't looked much into that bombing myself, so I really don't have an opinion on it, but that isn't going to change the fact that others do and have reasons for their doubts concerning it.
Government. It's the job of the government to lie to you. That's what governments throughout history have done. If you believe governments are always honest and forthcoming, there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I want to sell to you. Edited by Comrade Queen, Jul 2 2010, 11:00 PM.
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| Union | Jul 2 2010, 11:22 PM Post #123 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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How long does it take hundreds of people to write 400 pages, I wonder? |
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| Quaon | Jul 2 2010, 11:27 PM Post #124 |
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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And when a hundred people are writing 400 pages not very long. This is how bills are written. You've no idea what you're talking about. Just because people are talking about something doesn't mean they should be taken seriously. :rolleyes: There's a difference between not trusting the government and having a conspiracy theorist world view, which you clearly have. |
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| Toussaint | Jul 2 2010, 11:39 PM Post #125 |
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Major
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Why wouldn't you need a passport? Mexico isn't the United States. |
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11:53 AM Jul 13