Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
This forum is used with the NationStates web-game designed and run by Max Barry. While not officially affiliated, this serves as the regional forum for the regions: Middle East, African Continent, American Continent, Asian Continent, and European Continent.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and can "read only".

In order to get the most out of these forums, please become a member and read this guide - http://z3.invisionfree.com/nationstates/index.php?showtopic=3060


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
So I've been rather distracted.; Damn you MMOs!
Topic Started: Jun 3 2009, 01:58 AM (1,974 Views)
Quaon
Member Avatar
A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
I did mean from Scythirus, and was just trying to make sure this thread didn't fall into the next page by the time Scythirus returns.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rhadamanthus
Member Avatar
Legitimist

Quaon
Jun 9 2009, 07:39 PM
I did mean from Scythirus, and was just trying to make sure this thread didn't fall into the next page by the time Scythirus returns.
Gotcha. I just wanted to make sure you knew that he wasn't ignoring you, since I didn't know whether you checked his activity.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NRE
Member Avatar
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

An if the topic is any hint, you may be waiting a while :lol: :P

Edit: I hate that when I click on a thread I go to the first post I haven't read and not the last page of the entire conversation.... :dry:
Edited by NRE, Jun 9 2009, 07:44 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Comrade Queen
Member Avatar
Comrade Bitchqueen
Quaon
Jun 4 2009, 08:29 PM
Quote:
 
So where's the columns? If what you say is to be true, the columns should still be standing. They're not. WTC were not hollow tin cans. At the very least, the columns should still be standing like a overly redundant series of bones. And furthermore, molten steel was indeed found on the site with traces of sulfur. Jet fuel fires can't do this, but there is a particular chemical compound that can do that.
This should explain to you the whole molten steel thing: http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm#molten
I might as well get responding to this since Quaon's trolling on everything else I post.

Your source says

Quote:
 
The demolitionists much beloved thermite is a good example, BUT NOT THE ONLY EXAMPLE. AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT THERMITE, THERMATE, SOL-GEL NANO-THERMITE WAS EVER PRESENT AT THE WTC SITE!!!!!


This is wrong.
http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/04/04/911-active-thermitic-material-confirmed/
http://www.ufppc.org/us-a-world-news-mainmenu-35/9434-media-analysis-renascent-911-doubt-nano-thermite-was-not-prepared-in-a-cave-in-afghanistan.html

And a rebuttal to debunkers:
http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=15950&Disp=163

Also:

Posted Image

Quote:
 
As was noted in my source, the second picture removes the columns because they are irrelevant to the design.

Also, here: http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/24ae78779d768010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____
Quote:
 
“That being the case, the fire on these floors had a consequence: The truss floors sagged due to the temperature and pulled on the fasteners to exterior columns,” he continues. “Remember, the columns can support the load itself, they are very strong. After the planes hit and eliminated some columns, the rest of the columns took the load.

Quote:
 
“Explosives used to demolish steel are called ‘linear-shape charges,” says Bill Moore, of Brandenburg Industrial Service Co., and former president of the National Demolition Association from 2003-2005. “They cut steel like a hot knife through butter and leave a very distinctive looking cut plus a copper residue. Just putting explosives on a piece of steel would do nothing unless the amount was huge. That huge amount would have blown out every window in Manhattan from the sound pressure.”



Posted Image

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
“Our team, working at Ground Zero, including myself, never saw indication of explosive use that would have been evident after the event,” says Brent Blanchard, senior writer for www.implosionworld.com. “You just can’t clean up all the det cord, shock tube, blasting cap remnants, copper backing from explosive charges, burn marks along clean-cut edges of columns, etc., nor is there any evidence in the thousands of photos taken by the press and dozens of agencies over the following days. I just can’t see how it happened that way.”



So either these experts are lying (which would mean the involvement of an increasing number of people, making the chance somebody would let slip the conspiracy ever higher) or there were no explosives.


Lying through their teeth.


Very end, "Building's about to blow up" referring to WTC7.





Protip, bombs explode.

Quote:
 
Also, just a note, the WTC is not the only building to have fallen because of fire. In Lancaster PA: http://www.firefightersonline.com/opsandtactics/tr-097/


This is a steel highrise?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Oh yeah, that's a real great comparison. :rolleyes:

Quote:
 


Fair enough, but then we go back to....

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Why would family make a mistake like that?
Because the panic associated with imminent death can cause people to do weird things.


That's your only explanation? He was allegedly a son calling his MOTHER! I don't care how stressed he was, people just don't announce their last name to the person who raised them. I think they know what their kid's last name is.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Is that enough?
Okay. His wasn't the only thing recovered; they also found an ATM card from a random guy onboard.
And also: http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011230flight931230p3.asp


Passengers are passengers, but terrorists still have to be proven. About half of the accused terrorists are still alive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm

Also, Flight 93 was shot down, allowing a better chance to float out of the diving wreck.



Plus you're ignoring that a completely random dude just simply handed the cop the miracle passport, tarnishing the legitimacy of the evidence.

Quote:
 
Scy, I just want to make it clear, I'm not doing this to antagonize you;


You drove this thread off topic in one post just to challenge my knowledge on 9/11, and that's not antagonistic?

Quote:
 
I sincerely think you're wrong and want to show you that.


Yet you are the one who is wrong.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300.html
http://oldthinkernews.com/Articles/oldthinker%20news/911_commission_members_doubt_of.htm

The 9/11 Commission was told "not to cross the line": (Page 26)
http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/CIA.pdf

If the official story is true, why all the strong arming from the government to influence the Commission?
Edited by Comrade Queen, Jun 30 2010, 12:18 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Quaon
Member Avatar
A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
I will compose a longer post individually rebutting your points at some point in the future, but for the time being, before I go to sleep:

Explain to me how it is possible that not a single person noticed the hordes of trained demolitionists descending upon the WTC in the weeks prior to 9/11 who would have been required if the WTC were taken down by the government. Explain to me further how not a single one of these people, who at least number in the dozens, has spoken about their role in the attack. You'd essentially be requiring scores of men to keep the biggest secret in human history quiet for the rest of their lives; if they had a single pang of guilt and got drunk, the plotters could be exposed.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Comrade Queen
Member Avatar
Comrade Bitchqueen
Quaon
Jun 30 2010, 12:29 AM
I will compose a longer post individually rebutting your points at some point in the future, but for the time being, before I go to sleep:

Explain to me how it is possible that not a single person noticed the hordes of trained demolitionists descending upon the WTC in the weeks prior to 9/11 who would have been required if the WTC were taken down by the government. Explain to me further how not a single one of these people, who at least number in the dozens, has spoken about their role in the attack. You'd essentially be requiring scores of men to keep the biggest secret in human history quiet for the rest of their lives; if they had a single pang of guilt and got drunk, the plotters could be exposed.
http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2208
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Seriously?
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Menhad
Member Avatar
ET2(IDW)
Ok if the government is capable of bringing down the WTC and not get caught, then it should be more than capable silencing the people who post articles on the internet pointing out that they did bring down the WTC....

Oh wait....

It was pissed of Muslims who hijacked the planes, and flew them into the WTC and Pentagon. This doesn't justify invading Afghanistan, and it no way in hell justifies invading Iraq. There are people who do pull the strings in the world today, but I think they would find a less obvious way to manipulate the United States into war with the Middle East. Remember these people got that powerful somehow, and it's not because they lucked into it. They where smart.

Side Note: Thermite can form in many situations, hell the Hindenburg fire formed Thermite. Also that photo might not be Thermite, many other things can cause showers of sparks.

As for the cut beam photo, ever consider that the rescue/firemen cut the beam? You know because the whole thing might have been in the way so, they cut it.

And Scy, remember you can attract alot more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hastine
Member Avatar
Universi enim hic sumus.
 *  *  *  *  *  *
Arguing that the WTC was blown up in a government conspiracy is like arguing that the Holocaust was a Zionist hoax.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Comrade Queen
Member Avatar
Comrade Bitchqueen
T.O.
Jun 30 2010, 12:52 AM
Ok if the government is capable of bringing down the WTC and not get caught, then it should be more than capable silencing the people who post articles on the internet pointing out that they did bring down the WTC....
Let's see... did the cabal of criminals in the government not get caught, not get caaaaught?

Considering we're talking about it and we have a few good ideas of who was involved (Larry Silverstein, Rumsfeld, Turner Construction, CIA, etc.), I'd say they very well did get caught.

Quote:
 
It was pissed of Muslims who hijacked the planes, and flew them into the WTC and Pentagon.


That's the government's official conspiracy theory.

Show me concrete evidence it was Muslims that live in Afghani caves. Said evidence must not include men handing in passports that were reported stolen years earlier or footage of bad Osama bin Laden impersonators wearing gold wedding rings and fat faces.

Quote:
 
Side Note: Thermite can form in many situations, hell the Hindenburg fire formed Thermite. Also that photo might not be Thermite, many other things can cause showers of sparks.


Watch some of the footage on YouTube, it's clearly fluid. All of the jet fuel had burned up by then. At that point there was suppose to be only a sissy little office fire with burning paper and desks.

Quote:
 
As for the cut beam photo, ever consider that the rescue/firemen cut the beam? You know because the whole thing might have been in the way so, they cut it.


It's a possibility I haven't dismissed, but it's certainly ominous with the rescue crews already crawling through the area.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Menhad
Member Avatar
ET2(IDW)
Scythirus
 
T.O.
Jun 30 2010, 12:52 AM
Ok if the government is capable of bringing down the WTC and not get caught, then it should be more than capable silencing the people who post articles on the internet pointing out that they did bring down the WTC....
Let's see... did the cabal of criminals in the government not get caught, not get caaaaught?

Considering we're talking about it and we have a few good ideas of who was involved (Larry Silverstein, Rumsfeld, Turner Construction, CIA, etc.), I'd say they very well did get caught.

When I say caught I mean the vast major of Americans believe that they did it, not just you, me and some other people on the web.

Scythirus
 
Quote:
 
It was pissed of Muslims who hijacked the planes, and flew them into the WTC and Pentagon.


That's the government's official conspiracy theory.

Show me concrete evidence it was Muslims that live in Afghani caves. Said evidence must not include men handing in passports that were reported stolen years earlier or footage of bad Osama bin Laden impersonators wearing gold wedding rings and fat faces.


Well their names are a poor piece of evidence, but some evidence none-the-less. Honestly I haven't read much into the whole matter, but I do think the most logically situation would be that angry Muslims did it. They have attacked American assets before (The embassies bombing, the Marine Barracks bombing), and they have plenty of reasons to do it (Spiritually and Politically). No they didn't live in Afghani caves, majority came from Saudi Arabia.

As I said, the WTC did not justify invading Afghanistan, personally I think Saudi Arabia is the largest threat to the US, followed by Iran. But we will never invade Saudi Arabia, to much money at stake invading there.

I believe that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor, and the the WTC does have some similarities to it. (They both where used are reasons to go to war it the biggest similarity)

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Comrade Queen
Member Avatar
Comrade Bitchqueen
T.O.
Jun 30 2010, 01:32 AM
Scythirus
 
T.O.
Jun 30 2010, 12:52 AM
Ok if the government is capable of bringing down the WTC and not get caught, then it should be more than capable silencing the people who post articles on the internet pointing out that they did bring down the WTC....
Let's see... did the cabal of criminals in the government not get caught, not get caaaaught?

Considering we're talking about it and we have a few good ideas of who was involved (Larry Silverstein, Rumsfeld, Turner Construction, CIA, etc.), I'd say they very well did get caught.

When I say caught I mean the vast major of Americans believe that they did it, not just you, me and some other people on the web.

How much is a "vast" majority? Only two thirds?

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/205933-100-million-Americans-question-or-find-fault-with-the-official-9-11-story

Quote:
 
Scythirus
 
Quote:
 
It was pissed of Muslims who hijacked the planes, and flew them into the WTC and Pentagon.


That's the government's official conspiracy theory.

Show me concrete evidence it was Muslims that live in Afghani caves. Said evidence must not include men handing in passports that were reported stolen years earlier or footage of bad Osama bin Laden impersonators wearing gold wedding rings and fat faces.


Well their names are a poor piece of evidence, but some evidence none-the-less. Honestly I haven't read much into the whole matter, but I do think the most logically situation would be that angry Muslims did it. They have attacked American assets before (The embassies bombing, the Marine Barracks bombing), and they have plenty of reasons to do it (Spiritually and Politically). No they didn't live in Afghani caves, majority came from Saudi Arabia.


And yet some were still reported alive after the fact. It's been confirmed by BBC News. See that one article I linked to. I have a few more as well if you're really curious.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
I'm satisfied with the 9/11 Commission Report. The commission stated that it was the stupidity of American foreign policy which led to the 9/11 attacks. Though of course the commission stated this with a lot of extra verbiage.

If we actually followed the findings of the 9/11 report, we would realize that our whole involvement in the Middle East has been a waste of time and money and we therefore wouldn't continue to waste time and money there. However, the government decided to brush aside these findings and concoct the myth that those muzzies "hate our way of life" when in reality the muzzies have very specific, discrete complaints against US foreign policy. This foreign policy is correctable and can be corrected, but the government chose not to and instead chose to flush more American money and blood down the great toilet known as Middle Eastern Geopolitics.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Comrade Queen
Member Avatar
Comrade Bitchqueen
Tristan da Cunha
Jun 30 2010, 01:41 AM
I'm satisfied with the 9/11 Commission Report.
That's strange, because quite a few of its former members aren't.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
Those people are looking at the trees and missing the forest, so to speak. The truth is already out there: our Middle Eastern foreign policy has been a gigantic fuck-up for decades.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Toussaint
Member Avatar
Major
Scythirus
Jun 30 2010, 01:40 AM
I was unaware that 100 million was two thirds of 300 million. Math has just been face fucked.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Comrade Queen
Member Avatar
Comrade Bitchqueen
Toussaint
Jun 30 2010, 01:51 AM
Scythirus
Jun 30 2010, 01:40 AM
I was unaware that 100 million was two thirds of 300 million. Math has just been face fucked.
I meant the other way, clearly. Sorry if it seemed phrased weird.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Tristan da Cunha
Jun 30 2010, 01:46 AM
Those people are looking at the trees and missing the forest, so to speak. The truth is already out there: our Middle Eastern foreign policy has been a gigantic fuck-up for decades.
Then what should we do?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Should we stand by while there is oppression and genocide?

I'm not disagreeing with you, just playing the devil's advocate.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tristan da Cunha
Member Avatar
Science and Industry
We ought to encourage the natural and peaceful balance of power in the Middle East, instead of proactively disrupting it like we've been doing.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Union
Member Avatar
Pyrenees Republic
The United States is the only regime competent enough to execute a full-fledged, highly coordinated, covert, secret military operation in front of the eyes of millions of Americans, and not leak a word for ten years, and incompetent enough to leak pictures from CIA prisons in Iraq, leak videos of journalists being shot from a Blackhawk, fuck up a simple occupation of Iraq despite history of successful occupations in other cultures, etc etc.

:rolleyes:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
New Harumf
Member Avatar
Bloodthirsty Unicorn
OK, would OUR government be so dispicable as to bring down the WTC in order to provoke a war in the middle east? Well, unfortunately, yes. They've done similar things in the past.

Would OUR government be able to keep a thing like this a secret for any length of time? I seriously doubt it.

See, that's my only problem. A great deal of your evidence is compelling, but I just don't see how it could be kept secret - people talk.

Oh, and I'd be for killing Taliban and El Quada people even without the WTC. I'd also be for toppling Saddam, invading Afghanistan, and crusading against Islam in general.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Union
Member Avatar
Pyrenees Republic
When has the United States killed 3,000 WASPS?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Toussaint
Member Avatar
Major
New Harumf
Jun 30 2010, 08:20 AM
OK, would OUR government be so dispicable as to bring down the WTC in order to provoke a war in the middle east? Well, unfortunately, yes. They've done similar things in the past.
Like what?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
New Harumf
Member Avatar
Bloodthirsty Unicorn
The Maine blows up in Havana Harbor.

The Japanese attack Pearl Harbor with FDR's knowledge.

Weapons of mass distruction are photographed in the Iraqi desert and used as evidence to start a war.

Child abuse is "discovered" in the Branch Davidian compound.

The second Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Union
Member Avatar
Pyrenees Republic
Quote:
 
The Maine blows up in Havana Harbor.


This has been demonstrated to be an accident. Where do you get the information suggesting the USA was behind it? Regardless, American civilians were not targeted in this case.
Quote:
 

The Japanese attack Pearl Harbor with FDR's knowledge.


This is contestable, and by no means a certain conclusion. While it is beyond debate that FDR knew a Japanese attack was coming, his leading advisors and himself were focused on Alaska and the Philippines, not Hawaii. Pearl Harbor itself was a complete surprise. Regardless, American civilians were not targeted in this case.

Quote:
 
Weapons of mass distruction are photographed in the Iraqi desert and used as evidence to start a war.


There is undeniable evidence that Iraq had vast quantities of yellowcake uranium procured in Africa. What is unclear is what the Ba'ahist regime intended to use that fuel for. There is minor evidence of systems being transferred to Syria prior to invasion, though this is yet unsubstantiated. Regardless, American civilians were not targeted in this case.
Child abuse is "discovered" in the Branch Davidian compound.

Quote:
 
The second Gulf of Tonkin incident.


It seems to me that nervousness was responsible for that more so than malice. Regardless, American civilians were not targeted in this case.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Off-Topic · Next Topic »
Add Reply