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| Six missile tests by NK, supreme court appointment, cyber tzar | |
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| Topic Started: May 29 2009, 10:28 AM (517 Views) | |
| Ulgania | May 29 2009, 10:28 AM Post #1 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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And which issues are getting the most attention? The majority of the rhetoric is going between Sotomayor and the more mundane domestic issues. THe bigger issues (economy, North Korea, whatever else) are being downplayed. I think the administration is up to something, and I think my mindless paranoia is finally finding legitimacy. That's all. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 10:40 AM Post #2 |
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Science and Industry
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Impeach Obama. |
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| Ulgania | May 29 2009, 10:52 AM Post #3 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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Eh. Not climactic enough. Summer's left me very bored. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 10:55 AM Post #4 |
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Science and Industry
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I'm still a believer in due process, as boring as it is. |
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| NRE | May 29 2009, 10:58 AM Post #5 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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I say we get the world to invade North Korea and the United States for once, send the least amount of soldiers for the operation as possible. Let the Brits or any other number of militarily capable nations handle the dirty work for once :lol: and finally let the world have a united Korean again :love: |
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| Ulgania | May 29 2009, 11:05 AM Post #6 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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Allow the UN to move out of diplomacy and economics and give them the military aspect. All nations involved should commit troops based on a formula that weighs capability, current military size, and that state's GDP. Send that force. Make the commanders all former Soviet generals. That'll throw the Koreans for a spin |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 11:24 AM Post #7 |
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Science and Industry
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Russia and China wouldn't be very happy with that, and that's the UN security council. Since we're in the early stages of Great Depression 2, I smell a World War 3 coming to fruition 7 or 8 years from now. At least WW3 will solve the economic depression. Perhaps for that reason the powers-that-be have a certain vested interest in prodding mankind along the warpath. |
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| Ulgania | May 29 2009, 11:28 AM Post #8 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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No, they wouldn't be happy. Russia's oligarchs should start asserting authority when the next round of elections come up. China's floating population of ~100 million should start demanding work or insight violence. The end result of any of these things won't be very good for anyone, but it'll make the world interesting... that is, it'll make the real world resemble our little esoteric world. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 11:38 AM Post #9 |
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Science and Industry
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It's not China's floating population I'm worried about. Even if there are no jobs in the city they could always rely on being able to return home to the countryside and having farm work available. They're pretty much low key, low maintenance folk. However, the permanent residents of the city , like the housing-projects dwellers and the unemployed recent college grads, are the true social powder keg. One possibility is they might make like the unemployed Japanese or Germans in the 1930s and demand a war, any war. |
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| NRE | May 29 2009, 11:45 AM Post #10 |
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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Maybe they'll riot to fight the North Koreans just the hell of it :lol: Problem solved....well no not really :( Oh and another thing, when in the history of America did anyone think it was a good idea to label someone a Czar of something. I really hate that title here in America. If the Russians or eastern Europe want to use it find, but come on we Americans can be more original than that. Edited by NRE, May 29 2009, 11:47 AM.
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 12:04 PM Post #11 |
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Science and Industry
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Damn, that would solve so many problems for the US (at the usual cost of millions of lives lost), not only the problem of the nukes but also the problem of the huge foreign debt :lol: I agree about the annoying uses of the word "Czar". |
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| Ulgania | May 29 2009, 12:06 PM Post #12 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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TC: The floating population doesn't want that to be their fate. There's enough turbulence related to local party corruption in the countryside as it is. China pretty much is an enormous powder keg... nothing's going to come of it in a while though. The Czar/Tzar/Csar/bastardized Russian title thing is kinda dumb. I think they just keep the titles because they sound slightly more badass than 'head of the committee to oversee the state of the committee of' so on and so forth. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 12:18 PM Post #13 |
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Science and Industry
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That "fate" isn't a terrible fate, at least there'll be guaranteed food to eat and work to do on the ol' ancestral plot of farmland. That is preferable to dilly dallying in the city where there are no jobs and no food for the jobless. After all, the data shows that millions of migrant laborers are already getting the hell out of the cities and back to the countryside as quickly as they can. I don't see that trend reversing for quite some time. |
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| Ulgania | May 29 2009, 12:33 PM Post #14 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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the corruption in the countryside still makes things pretty oppressive, but neither option is probably all that desirable. Very nice setup for a revolt. In the name of keeping the peace the Party could declare a war. Creating a clear external threat does have a way of rallying fractured states. The USA almost declared war on Canada before the civil war for the sake of getting the factions to work together. |
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| flumes | May 29 2009, 01:23 PM Post #15 |
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
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While NK deserves attention (to say the least), if Sotomayor ends up on the supreme court it will be my last straw giving Obama a chance. For someone who preaches equality, Sotomayor is the biggest joke of a pick I could've imagined..... I mean honestly, no matter the context this statement comes in, it's some BS. "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life." Lets change races and genders.... "“I would hope that a wise white man with the richness of his experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a Latina woman who hasn’t lived that life.” Or how about... “I would hope that a wise white man with the richness of his experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a black male who hasn’t lived that life.” The NAACP would have lawsuits coming out of there back side. Why should this be any different. Talk about hypocrisy. :angry: Edited by flumes, May 29 2009, 01:24 PM.
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| New Harumf | May 29 2009, 01:31 PM Post #16 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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100,000,000 haves, 900,000,000 have nots. That is a dangerous situation regardless if it is rural or urban. Plus, the 900,000,000 have nots have slowly been getting introduced to what they are missing. The Korea problem is a whole other matter. A. If Obama continues on his current course and does nothing: 1. Japan begins to militarize. 2. China gets pissed Japan is militarizing. 3. N. and S. Korea get really pissed Japan is militarizing. 4. N. Korea, in order to stem its anual drought, sells nukes and missiles to Iran. 5. Iran nukes Isreal. Isreal nukes Iran and Korea. Korea nukes Japan. Japan nukes Korea and China. China nukes ererybody. B. If Obama acts in accord with China, Japan and S. Korea: 1. U.S. and S. Korea begin to build up troups in the South. 2. N. Korea gets very pissed at South Korea. 3. China gets really pissed at N. Korea. 4. Australia joins U.S./S. Korea coalition. 5. N. Korea, in order to stem its anual drought, attempts to sell nukes and missiles to Iran. 6. We intercept ships containing weapons. 7. Korea nukes our ships and our army in S. Korea. 8. China nukes N. Korea. 9. N. Korea nukes China. C. If Obama and the U.S. Act alone: 1. We deploy a task force in the sea of Japan. 2. N. Korea, in order to stem its anual drought, attempts to sell nukes and missiles to Iran. 3. If: Sale is successful, go to A.5. Else: go to B.6. D. The U.N. writes a stern letter: 1. Problem solved. 2. No one suspects a thing, because our own CIA is afraid to look at anything because they might be sold down the road by Obama, and we all live blissfully happy in our beds until the terrorist nukes begin going off all over the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and several Far Eastern locations. |
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| lebowski2123 | May 29 2009, 01:52 PM Post #17 |
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Resident?
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 02:14 PM Post #18 |
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Science and Industry
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The likelihood of mass rural unrest is slim, since the corruption in the Chinese countryside doesn't lead to starvation or unemployment. "The devil finds work for idle hands". As long as the farmers are able to keep their stomachs full and keep their hands busy by turning to field work, rural China may very well be a relative wellspring of tranquility. On the other hand the unemployment situation in the city is truly volatile. What would be catastrophic to see is some hasty action by the central government goaded on not by the countryside, but by the supposedly sophisticated and educated city dwellers - like in Japan or Germany before WWII. Now that's the key difference in China's fate. Urban social unrest tends to lead to external war, since urban dwellers are worldly and xenophobic. Rural social unrest tends to lead to internal civil war, since rural dwellers' top priority is putting food in their stomachs - they don't know enough about the outside world to even be xenophobic. How that rural-urban dynamic plays out could set the global stage for the next 10 years. As for the US-Canadian conflicts before the civil war... those conflicts actually undermined federal unity and made factional tensions worse since Southern congressmen opposed wars with Canada, believing that any land conquered from Canada would increase the number and influence of the northern Free States in the union. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 02:31 PM Post #19 |
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Science and Industry
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North Korea has less than 10 nukes, and no effective delivery system. They're a threat but not a big one, unless the US keeps goading them on. Here's how Obama (piss be upon him) should proceed. He should simply go (in person) to Pyongyang, unconditionally, and offer concessions to North Korea. The US should make the first offer: agree to completely withdraw our armed forces from the Korean peninsula. In return, the US should demand N. Korea pare down its military size and abolish its nuclear arsenal. I have a feeling N. Korea would agree to a deal like that. Kim Jong Il isn't suicidal. He's paranoid, yes, because the US and South Korea have a gigantic invasion-ready offensive army on his border. But he's not suicidal. If anything, he wants to hold on to power and protect his own life and limb at all costs. However, Obama would never agree to any sensible deal like that. The military-industrial complex and the bankers who control this country would never agree to a deal like that. It would mean cutting military subsidies and it would also mean returning a large contingent of American troops home to face unemployment and a bad economy (a bad economy caused by Obama's and the central bankers' policies themselves). Edited by Tristan da Cunha, May 29 2009, 02:38 PM.
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| Porcu | May 29 2009, 05:10 PM Post #20 |
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"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
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This. |
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| Ulgania | May 29 2009, 05:14 PM Post #21 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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Since the general fear of the US military in the thousands of artillery pieces on Seoul, which if NK decides to use there is no clear military solution for, they're going to keep that short-term issue on the table. Nobody's really -that- concerned about the nuclear issue because of that you said, as well as the fact that the actual detonation they've tried was a weak one the idea of a city-killer is out of the question for a few more years. The rural population in China is still a source of unrest greater than what you're saying. There are 200 million unemployed remaining in the countryside, not to mention the over 100 million for the floating population. That's just a lot of people who face conditions that they most likely will start to feel they don't deserve. While the educated city-dwellers may demand an external conflict, the rural population does have its own unforgotten legacy of unrest. The last Korean conflict saw an army raised from the countryside, they've died in the tens of millions for Mao's ambitions. And yet for some reason the majority of the population still trusts the central government over the corrupt rural leaders. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 05:57 PM Post #22 |
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Science and Industry
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It's the same situation as in pre-revolutionary Russia. The serfs always trusted the Tsar more than they trusted the corrupt local aristocrats and majordomos. It's easier for a peasant farmer to have a gut-hatred against the local bigwig breathing down his neck than for him to hate a faceless, amorphous entity (whether it's the Tsar or Beijing) hundreds and thousands of miles away. The psychology of the subsistence farmer is strictly local in scope, and his political memory stretches back only as far as a few harvests ago. That's not always a fault either imo- that's the nature and necessity of the subsistence way of life. In fact, the Russian example teaches us that local corruption could be manageable indefinitely even through terrible global recessions and depressions, as long as there's no acute decline in the quality of life. In Russia's case, the acute decline in quality of life was triggered by wartime rouble inflation and food shortages during WWI. Since certain technological innovations have so far resolved the issue of perennial starvation in China, Russia's example suggests that in China's case, it's more likely that war precedes (and causes), rather than results from, peasant uprising. Regarding N. Korea's artillery pieces, the US should of course stick to the demands made by every administration for the past 40 years: N. Korea must scale back its million-man army and demilitarize the border. Except this time, if Obama wants to make those demands plausible or realistic, he needs to unconditionally meet with the North's negotiators and offer real concessions, like a withdrawal of US forces from the Korean peninsula. Once these results are achieved, the US can then help indulge Kim Jong Il's long-term goal of political survival by easing him from international pariah status to Pinochet-style tinpot dictator in hock with Washington itself. The likelihood of Obama making these sensible diplomatic maneuvers are, of course, implausible, due to the strength of the war party here in the US. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 29 2009, 06:07 PM Post #23 |
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Science and Industry
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I've pretty much accepted that the ultimate fate of our illustrious Federal Republic in a few decades or generations will be a transformation of our country into some sort of poverty stricken, socialist, Zapatista, Mexican-Catholic country. The only way to combat this fate is to establish a series of heavily armed, religiously-guided, Free American communities from which the future "Contra-Zapatista" resistance can be carried out. Edited by Tristan da Cunha, May 29 2009, 06:52 PM.
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| Rhadamanthus | May 29 2009, 07:03 PM Post #24 |
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Legitimist
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Everyone misses the point here. Does anyone really think that she believes that a Hispanic woman inherently makes a better judge than a white man? No, of course she doesn't believe that. Noone believes that. So I think its fair to say that there is a different motivation than real belief. So we have to look beyond that. Its about pandering to her ethnic group, but its unlikely to have any real meaning. Its all symbolic. Frankly I'm just glad that Obama picked someone who is a more moderate leftist and not some extreme left-wing Marxist. We knew we weren't going to get a second Clarence Thomas or Antonin Scalia, so let's count our blessings. Edited by Rhadamanthus, May 29 2009, 07:04 PM.
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| Eleytheria-Duo | May 29 2009, 07:09 PM Post #25 |
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Resident Bystander
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I'm stunned nobody even mentioned the second Nuclear weapons test North Korea undertook only days ago. Apparently its yield was estimated to be around 2 to 4 kilotons, detonated a few dozen miles from Kimchaek, DPRK. |
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11:34 AM Jul 13