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| How sick of the Dominion are you? | |
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| Topic Started: May 8 2009, 12:36 PM (183 Views) | |
| Sedulius | May 15 2009, 06:13 PM Post #26 |
Field Marshal
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I've always thought the Dominion was silly. However, there's a lot on this forum I've thought more silly. Indeed, I've come up with plenty of silly things myself, I'm sure. And there's nothing wrong with being a bit silly. That said, I think the Dominion concept is okay. It's not good, but it's not bad. It seems to me that taking the most powerful countries in the world to form a monopoly on power was bound to create wide and unified opposition against it, and with the majority of roleplayers in some sort of higher education, and thus tied up in their studies, bound to create the current stalemate. Personally, I'd love to RP the entirety of this final war with the Dominion in great detail if I had the time. I'm actually disappointed it's being cut somewhat short, but I understand why this is being done. So, I suppose I have quite different feelings about the Dominion that many on here, but then again there's not much I can do to help the situation. |
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| Union | May 15 2009, 06:56 PM Post #27 |
Pyrenees Republic
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My opinion is simple. The Dominion killed this forum, in terms of RP. The problem is that the Dominion was not an RP, not really. It was a story, where all the parts were already assigned, all the roles already decided, the fate already planned. It was not allowed to breathe or develop on its own, not really, because the core of the RP had already been planned well in advance. This is my great problem with agreeing on results ahead of time - once you've decided what will happen, what does it matter? Who cares about the RP itself. Worse, the Dominion did just that - it dominated. You cannot RP a normal world when trying to fight Hitler. It doesn't work. Politics as usual cannot continue, and thus people who did not care for the Dominion, or did not want to participate, there was nothing that could possibly be done. So they left. It is no coincidence that the minute the Dominion started in earnest, activity dropped to its current levels. People did not leave - activity in the off-topic forum is a testament to that. I believe people are waiting for this to end, so they can return to normal, unscripted RP, and politics as usual. My .02. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | May 15 2009, 07:59 PM Post #28 |
The Devil's Advocate
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Ok let's have some clarity here folks. I'd hoped that I could stay out of this thread, but enough is enough. We were in an RP slump. Nothing interesting was happening. The Holy League was gone, The Order was buried, the New BP impotent. People had said over and over that they wanted a world war. Kas came to me with a workable idea for a world war. One that was unusual. One that meant bending the rules a little. And I OKed it. So, let's see a little less hate thrown Kas's way. He was responsible. He responded to the forums needs by bringing an idea forward. ***** "WAH! The Dominion was a story not an RP!" I don't remember holding a gun to anyone's head saying "support the dominion or die!" You were free to react however you wanted. We expected factions to organize resistance - or react in any way they damn well pleased. The Dominion set out to conquer the world, then let it all fall apart. Conquering the world doesn't happen without planning. But how you reacted to that was completely up to you. If those opposed to the Dominion actually organised, stood together and from the outset fought side by side, things would be different. It wasn't something that Kas (and the rest of us planning this) were hoping for - we wanted to take over the world then prompt global rebellion - but let's not make out that the Dominion story was set in stone. The Red Death was an interesting story arc. The disease would spread. People would come together to fight it. It'd be wiped out. No-one forced massive death tolls, using the disease as a weapon, using it as an excuse to strike at old enemies or overcome traditional prejudices. ***** "WAH! People were still forced to react to the Dominion!" Uh... ok. Some people did stay neutral. Those who left, either left because they hadn't RPed in months before the Dominion story started or because of OOC issues with players (which, granted, the Dominion exacerbated). People reacted to the Muslim Brotherhood. People have reacted to the Holy League. But, I do admit, this is a valid complaint. If there wasn't overwhelming support from the forums for the idea of having a World War, then I would have stopped the Dominion before it started. It's because people said (repeatedly) that they wanted a world war that the Dominion idea was pushed through. Did it work out well? Would I push the idea again knowing what I know now? No on both accounts. ***** "Everyone was too busy to play!" Come on guys. Really? People have been in school, starting new jobs and going away to college for as long as we've been playing. People find the time to play the games they're interested in. Sure, activity slumps a little during "finals" time - but everyone on the forums is always going to be "busy". ***** "Story has dragged on too much!" Yes it has. I'd hoped to have this wrapped up months ago. People rage-quitting, people causing other people to rage-quit, other people losing internet access, other people losing interest has caused this to drag on longer than it should have. ***** "The Dominion was unbeatable!" ... Does anyone honestly think this? For a start, Kas is not out to "win" nationstates (read: "anymore"). Secondly... come on guys, I pride myself on fairness. The Dominion steam rollered only over those states who didn't want to resist. The Dominion got to where it is today because people stubbornly refused to work together to fight it. No-one lodged a complaint to me that the Dominion was "cheating" or overpowered. And when Kas tried to start up the Dominion endgame by rallying all the states opposed to the Dominion... I think I remember you all laughing at him. Again, I don't deny that there was a plan for the Dominion. We wanted things to play out a certain way (a way that meant defeat and significant destruction for the Dominion). But there was always room for compromise. ***** "The Dominion caused people to hate each other!" Obsessiveness and poor communication skills have caused people to dislike each other. The fact that people have consistently blown innocent comments out of proportion is what's caused a lot of bad blood. I've seen exchanges like this: Nice post. Is that sarcasm? No, why would you think I'm being sarcastic, don't you trust me? I don't think I can be friends with someone who can't trust me. So you're not my friend! Burn in hell traitor! **** you. You're the traitor! ***** The Dominion did not kill NS1. The Dominion was CPR for NS1. Just look at the low activity of NS2, hell even Offtopic has slumped significantly. The Dominion is not to blame for our lack of creativity. Hopefully, when the Dominion dies someone will shout "clear" and the defibrillator of a Post Dominion world will quicken us once more. But let's see a little less hate being thrown around for no reason. |
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| Union | May 15 2009, 09:00 PM Post #29 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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Nag, the existence of a world-changing empire like the Dominion forces players to play the Dominion story. It cannot simply be ignored. Politics as usual cannot just continue. The problem is that we were not free to react as we wanted - by the very fact that we were forced to react. I never really liked the idea, and could not simply ignore it as not occurring either, because that would make no sense whatsoever. The WMD was fundamentally different from any previous alliance in that it could not be ignored, because it was not limited to a single region. Worse, its creation was entirely forced and artificial - it was created for the sake of making a world war. Major, multi-party wars are nothing strange. The ToK-Madrid Pact war or the Georgia War all come to mind. The best thing about them, however, is that they were not planned. I'm not hating on Kas - it may have been his idea, but the a lot of players eagerly jumped to support it, but then refused to follow it through in any way. |
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| Ulgania | May 15 2009, 09:15 PM Post #30 |
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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Wall of text to read only if you want a devil's advocate view of NE's post. Take it all as someone -trying- to be objective, and I'm not out to get anyone with it... but it's still the kind of post that might make someone a little mad. Nag, I agree with a lot of what you said. However, there are a few points I just have to disagree with. I've been a little outspoken in the past but my complaints were noted as, well, just some noob who didn't know what was what (that's how I felt anyway). Ever since the topic "A QUESTION OF ROOM" (http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/7030108/1/?x=20), I tried to speak out on behalf of people who, indeed, no longer had a reason to post however they wanted. This one topic resulted in a political balance of power in the Middle East that undercut the Serpentine Pact, and any hope that players like Ukabanea and a Ibrium would ever have a chance to say anything about it because of another topic that you, Nag, pointed out to me from May of 2007 that allowed it to happen. This one: http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/226054/1/ My point? You used precedent that occurred before many of the effected players even joined to let it all happen anyway. It's like saying to someone, "Oh, hey, sorry we can't let you do this anymore because of something we feel like enforcing now." You explained it all to me and I laughed off any spite I might've held and moved on. Where did I move on to? Let's see... I talked to as many players as I could to try to set up resistance to the Dominion. Porcu, Devin Wire, CNNP, and they let me take some liberties that otherwise probably would've never happen. I'm just saying, I feel like I'm the only one outside of Europe who gave a damn, and still everything was set up to undercut me. I'm not laughing at anyone, don't have any hard feelings, but when you say "the Dominion is not unbeatable," well yes, I do honestly believe it. HOWEVER, everyone on the inside, everyone who mattered in it, and everyone who was establishing a status quo of putting it together set it up to do just that, win. I know there's a story to it, and I acknowledge it, but there were so many IC strings that were being pulled by all the right players that even if an organized resistance WAS established, it would be undercut. Before anyone jumps to any conclusions about me, I have a lot of respect for the people who are committed to the Dominion project. Kas is seeing it through to the end, and we're all actually pulling together. But the difference now seems to be that people see a light at the end of the tunnel. Earlier on, there was NO light at the end of the tunnel. As for myself, I almost slaughtered 100,000 Ukabaneans on the basis that they were joining the WMD and wanted some leverage. There was a point where any matter of leverage or anything that went against a long-established status quo that was only helping the Dominion was frowned upon, and people like me were told to just deal with it. Edited by Ulgania, May 15 2009, 09:18 PM.
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| Kasnyia | May 15 2009, 09:19 PM Post #31 |
Chairman of the Bank
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When it comes to winning Nationstates, I always thought of the Dominion as a parody of the concept. Then again, I also thought said parody was obvious, but if it wasn't, there you go. My own two cents, and thats all I'm getting into at this point because now that exams are finished, I've been able to get back in the game. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | May 16 2009, 05:51 AM Post #32 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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Why not? People frequently ignored the edicts of the Holy League. Even its own members. When the Baghdad Pact formed, people reacted. Why? Because it was a collection of the worlds most powerful states come together to control the world. People reacted fairly organically, the existing alliances felt threatened, a new power arose to oppose them. When the BP reformed under a new name... people didn't care. We ignored the fact that some of the worlds most powerful states controlled so much oil. 'Twasn't realistic, but we didn't want to play the same story over again so we let it slide. War, like all RP here, is a consensual effort. Like any story arc on here, you're free to ignore whatever you want (within reason - you can't declare war on someone and pretend their troops don't exist). So yes, if you wanted to continue your nation's political interactions you had to work around the Dominion. If you wanted to continue your military RPing, you had to consider (and probably fight) the Dominion. But that's the point. If you don't want to react to the actions of other players... then don't play a multi-player RPG.
Neither are many notable alliances.
I'd argue that it was a lot less forced than some alliances (say, JAUST). Nag Ehgoeg, for one, was monitoring Gassel and his actions from the word go. We had been considering an alliance with him for over a year. So when Gassel plotted to overthrow the Kasynians, we were there. When he proposed a military alliance, we were there. The other Order (and former Order) states were also considering using Gassel for their own ends. ED was Gassel's long time ally. The idea of all the military states ganging together was not as far fetched as people are painting it as. As for being created for the sake of making a war... the BP, the ToK, the Middle Eastern Realism summit... these things were all created to enforce the status quo. The status quo of not much happening. Other alliances have been created to shift the balance of power. It would have been nice to see the Dominion grow more organically... but the fact that it didn't was due to apathy rather than anything else.
It's true that the average RP shouldn't be planned (that much). It's nice to see things spontaneously develop and grow. But it's because these wars aren't "planned" that they never escalate. The Georgia War pitted the world's most powerful militarys against each other... but it never escalated, because no-one was prepared for it to. Realistically, the Georgia War should have kicked off a world war. It was artificially stifled. And such was your right to. But I'm looking in that topic and I don't see where you called it unfair. I'm checking my PMs and I don't see where you raised a concern to me. You raise a concern to Paradise? The Middle East is home to powerful nations. Much like real life, those with power want to keep it. (IC, that is.) I'ma not saying that new players shouldn't try to form new power blocks. I liked the SP. But part of the fun is reacting to other players. And if you want your nation to start in the middle of an area controlled by powerful players, then expect to be politically limited. If you don't want the harsh competition of the Middle East, try mostly empty Asia - or the more liberal America. OOC people are pretty accommodating. Paradise has given up land for newbies. My point is this: to an extent, you've gotta work with other players - or what's the point?
Try to look at this from our perspective. The "oldbies" played the game. They played it well. They played it (IC) ruthlessly. They rose to the top. New players walk in and try to undo years of story telling. The old guard reacts. Now you might see that as unfair stifling of your story ideas. I see it as part of the fun of the Middle East. In the Middle East (and Europe) there is an established power structure. New players can go far by respecting this power structure and using it to their advantage. Or, they can take the interesting root and oppose that power structure. But if you set yourself in opposition to states more powerful than you... well expect consequences. Africa, America and even Asia... these are all regions of opportunity. These are places where new nations can rise and do their own thing without worrying about the established powers getting pissy at them (baring, of course, the Eastern Empire in Asia - but even they'll pay some respect to ethnic Asian nations).
And that's good. For all my saying "lay off Kas" perhaps I should have been saying "well done those of you who tried". Well done. 'Course, you gotta ask... what exactly was your goal in uniting these nations. What did you set out to achieve? What did you achieve? What did you try to achieve? If you're disappointed with your lack of success, then I would suggest you tell me why.
True. IC strings were being pulled to try and make the Dominion conquer the world. Because that was the plan. The Dominion was a collection of powerful nations trying to take over the world. They'd use every resource they had to get to the top. Part of that plan was to then destroy the Dominion. Fundamentally unlike the Middle Eastern Realism summit or the ToK which sought to control their region forever, the point of the Dominion was to have a good time and change the balance of power. To bring about a post-Dominion world where new nations could be heroes and minor powers could flourish. Take, using one of your examples, the Georgian War. People had plans. People used their IC strings to see their plans got carried out. Other people used their strings to try and play things their way. If people had an OOC exception to the Dominion, they only had to follow the complaints procedure. The procedure we've had since before we had this forum. You can find it in a stickied post I made in 06. If people thought it'd be more fun if the Dominion pulled fewer strings, if people had wanted to unify and fight a pitched battle against the Dominion rather than a rebellion - you could have pitched that.
Well... as condescending as this might sound (and I don't mean disrespect) but that's mostly because you were being incompetent. Imagine Pakistan and Afghanistan forming a military alliance to oppose NATO. It's laughable. Yet that's a good example of the kind of resistance being offered against the Dominion. Those opposing the Dominion couldn't stand a chance. Because you insisted on acting en-piecemeal and without coordinating. But that was OK. We (the Dominion) were ready for this. So we had a plan to lose. If you couldn't help yourselves (and I honestly didn't think you'd be able to), we had the perfect end-game plan that would unify all the Dominion's enemies. So when we said "sit tight and deal with it", we meant "sit tight, because things are going to get so much better for you". Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, May 16 2009, 06:43 AM.
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| Ulgania | May 16 2009, 07:55 AM Post #33 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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As for your question about where I was saying those things, http://s3.zetaboards.com/nationstates/topic/7030059/1/?x=20 And even though I stuck through the bulk of everything, a good number of players who joined around the time I joined didn't take it the same way I did. I tried to question things, but they really just left. When you say, in any game, "sit tight, because things are going to get so much better for you" to new players, their attention spans (whether or not they have amazing RP skills) and/or their will to continue on is suddenly very stymied. Not saying the older members were completely at fault, and I'm not saying they were completely innocent since they packed up shop and left, but when a bunch of us walk in on the Dominion just as it's unfolding it gets rather, shall we say, tedious. Please don't think I'm saying this as though I'm out to get anyone though. There's just been some collective frustration over the months between several of us :shy: |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 16 2009, 07:57 AM Post #34 |
Science and Industry
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I tend to agree with Ulgania. It was never as simple as "following the complaints procedure." Let me explain. I originally committed Trilateral Commission (a statistically very powerful account) to the Dominion. However I changed my mind because I felt giving too much power to a power bloc like the Dominion would kill RP. So I decided to back out of the Dominion, like I had earlier declined to join the BP. Problem is, when I backed out of the Dominion, Kas accused me of perfidy (the exact words - "I threw sand in his eyes") and accused me of messing up "careful plans" that had already been laid down. To placate Kas I offered to be strictly neutral and not even anti-Dominion.. I just didn't want to combine Trilateral Commission's resources with the Dominion. But Kas would not accept that and kept insisting that anything less than full integration of Trilateral Commission into the Dominion would constitute a personal betrayal. So I grudgingly allowed him to use the Trilateral Commission account for statistical purposes even though I wanted no personal involvement. This gave the Dominion WAAAY too much power. Ulgania was right- the Dominion was unbeatable and killed the RP and rendered impossible any possibility of this "pitched battle" you belatedly mention. But had I been able to completely and unconditionally extricate myself from the Dominion, I for one would've attempted to participate in an anti-Dominion alliance just as I participated in the anti-BP alliance. If one is accused of perfidy for messing up "careful plans," it would be very uncomfortable to pursue any "complaints procedure", since the whole purpose of the complaints procedure is to mess up pre-existing plans. Simply stated, I got the distinct impression that if anyone, whether a newbie like Ulgania or one of the oldsters, had attempted to raise OOC objections (especially if complaining to the mod behind someone's back), there would be some very, very bad blood and accusations of exceptional inconsiderateness at best or malicious perfidy at worst. Nobody wanted to get into an OOC feud. Even before the whole thing with E-D and AA everyone knew what OOC feuds lead to. So how could the situation have been sorted out if on the one hand the organizers of the Dominion came across as being (even if they weren't actually being) overly rigid about their "careful plans" and on the other hand the aggrieved parties were overly passive about ensuring their own interests? (and unfortunately passive-aggressive, which is the evillest kind of passive - I've been horribly guilty of this too) Well at the time I was not impartial about it obviously. I didn't know about other people's situations but in my case I would've preferred that Kas unconditionally exclude the Trilateral Commission's stats from the Dominion. That would've helped prevent the Dominion from being "unbeatable", and would've made true collaborative RP a lot easier. This post may seem like needlessly riling up old graves. And I sincerely don't have anything against Kas now and wish the Dominion RP the best and I fully and enthusiastically intend to participate in the Dominion RP. But I think it's important to illustrate that 10 months ago or whatever, OOC recourse wasn't as easy as you claim, because, as Ulgania pointed out, there was a lot of OOC exhortations from the Dominion organizers which simply left an odd taste in everyone's mouth, or even worse, left the impression that directly confronting the problem would lead to bad OOC disputes. So people took the path of least resistance and simply resigned to the Dominion's "careful plans" being implemented, and passively waited out the Dominion RP to finish. (convinced that this path of least resistance would also be the path of least casualties AKA least number of people rage-quitting the forum) Edited by Tristan da Cunha, May 16 2009, 08:42 AM.
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 16 2009, 08:31 AM Post #35 |
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Science and Industry
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And even in Hitler's case, we saw freaking Joseph "Let's move all our factories to the Ural Mountains and build 50,000 T-34 tanks" Stalin battling Hitler for 5 grueling years. Where is Gassel's Stalin? (Or Gassel's Hitler?) I meant that question purely rhetorically, since we don't have to introduce a deus ex machina Stalin or Hitler to finish writing the Dominion RP. But the point is, a viable RP can't have all the power aggregated in one bloc. True drama comes in the presence of multiple contending power blocs. For future reference. (and I'm one to refer to it too, since I did make the mistake of eloping with the Dominion too) Edited by Tristan da Cunha, May 16 2009, 08:38 AM.
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| New Harumf | May 16 2009, 08:42 AM Post #36 |
Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Day one: "Can I build a railroad through the Amish lands?" "Yes, of course, but we will resist . . . . " ** Railroad is done, and operating before the end of day one. ** Day one, evening: "OK, my leader, who took over for Joe Staal, and who I am planning to haved a long run with, will encourage the citizens of the Amish Children not to cooperate . . . . " ** Bang! We just assassinated him ** Thats what pissed me off, my attempt at peaceful civil disobedience was completely ignored! That's when I said, "Screw this, I'll get back involved when the Dominion is over." But it went on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and I got sick of the forum, stopped reading the stories, and pretty much didn't care if my nations lived or died. If that is respect for the oldbees, then you have a very strange way of showing it. Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, May 16 2009, 02:57 PM.
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| Telosan | May 16 2009, 11:24 AM Post #37 |
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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I'd say I'm in the middle of this argument. On one hand, Kas had a great idea that would revive the forums AND give people what they asked for. What he got for it was alot of people running away from it like it was the plague, and near constantly bashed for even thinking of helping the forums with a great idea. On the other hand, it was a long term plan and most people don't have the attention span or patience to deal with it. Since it was such a large power bloc, encompassing such a large portion of the world, the new people come in and see a massive worldwide organization and go, "He'll crush me if I oppose him". They think this because no one else did anything to resist it, so you would have this one tiny nation standing up going, "i hate you" to the largest most destructive earthly force. Trust me, no logicaly thinking newbie would do that. I stayed out of the Dominion and watched from afar for quite some time before doing anything. Yes, I wasn't here for the start of the Dominion so I don't know as well as everyone else what happened. My first weeks here, I read all the old posts and threads to get a grasp on what was happening. What I saw was a large country/coalition that jumped up and was largely ignored by everyone who wasn't a member nation or was getting attacked by it. Everyone didn't mention it or do anything about it until it affected him. Actually put me in the mind of the Holocaust. The people come for your neighbors, you say nothing abd igbore their crues for help. The people come for your co-workers, but you say nothing and ignore their cries for help. The people come for you, but who is left to help you? You all didn't do anything and the savior of the forums killed what it tried to save. It's like a guy that gets hit by a car and refuses medical help, then sues the hospital for not helping him. Really, it is. I'm both for and against the Dominion, IC and OOC. People disappeared mid-RPs, letting it drop and shutting down progress. The Dominion is taking so long to finish and causing so much frustration because of all of you against it OOC. Cooperate by fighting the Dominion IC or fighting for the Dominion IC and it will be done and over with! Take the medicine, and you'll get better. Now quit the childish arguing. |
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| Menhad | May 16 2009, 12:03 PM Post #38 |
ET2(IDW)
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I'm just pissed that it seem like only a handful of nations are fighting the Dominion. Me, Paradise, Ulgania, The Romans, and every one else just caved to them. That's what it seems like to me |
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| New Harumf | May 16 2009, 01:16 PM Post #39 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Your point is just fine, and I understand, but the Amish just don't FIGHT! So why was it necessary to kill my leader, stomp on the country with a jack-boot, and kill any chance I had of RP'ing anything?? New Harumf had just been destroyed by Scy, so they could do nothing, and the Lambda League kinda agreed to help the Dominion a bit, and the next thing I know there is a commission set up to dictate orders to the Lambda League King!! In my opinion at the time I figured it would do no good to complain to anyone because from what I could observe, everyone who was not Dominion was being ignored. If this was to really have been a proper role-play, then why were all the non-Dominion countries left totally in the dark on the plan? We could have been included, and plans could have been made on how we could resist without being crushed, but nope, wasn't done. I was never contacted, and never even knew the Dominion was coming until I saw all these countries with the new little symbols on their flags! That's my bitch. Nag, AA, and the rest of you are as culpable for this as Kas. So don't tell me "we had a chance to resist!" when in my opinion we were blind-sided by this whole allience. If you don't believe me, show me one, just one PM to me, personally, explaining what was going on. Tell the truth, Dominion members - you didn't want interference, alternate suggestion, or anything else. It was a power trip for all of you, and you just fucked up the boards, and now you are trying to dodge blame faster than Nancy Palosi runs away from a lie detector. Won't one of you have the courage to admit you were ALL jackasses?? |
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| Kasnyia | May 16 2009, 01:23 PM Post #40 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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First of all, you mailed a piece of shit to the Dominion commander. You know my style well enough to know that I react according to how my characters are characterized. And You knew full well Gassel was an evil psycho. Pissing him off wasn't going to do you any wonders, especially since up until that point, his people had been more than civil with you. You upped the ante, not I. It is for the same reason I am not letting the Amish take down the satellite, because you play it with humor as per your own style with these particulars, and thats fine in and of itself, but its not needed for the Dominion. Second, the "commission" you speak of was a charter office. All it did was give out contracts to whomever was willing to take it on. The Dominion itself has not set foot nor "dictated" anything to the Lambda League. Anyone who took a job for the Dominion was paid handsomely as per the terms and allowed to keep booty as per the terms. |
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| Ulgania | May 16 2009, 01:44 PM Post #41 |
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A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse
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In the Dominion's defense, and while Huesca's Hitler reference is still in my head, there's something to be said of this. I'm reminded of Martin Niemöller's poem "First They Came..." When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. Then they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. Then they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me. The way I'm seeing it, the people who were on board for the Dominion were gung ho about the ends justifying the means. However, this burgeoning power bloc was incompatible with the existing politics, which just for the sake of argument I will assume (since I wasn't around) were regional, insular, and based on the idea of balancing power, keeping one party from moving too much for the sake of stability. So, with everyone thinking of stability and such, this gave everyone behind the Dominion the wiggle room to promote their multi-regional alliance, and gave it even more room to coerce as it saw fit since their military could move more easily from region to region. I've made my own statements about blockading/blocking these seemless movements, but it resulted in a rather infinite blockade of Africa. EDIT Considering the previous two comments ITT, I think the issue of making everything a case-by-case basis gave the WMD an advantage as well. But, for the sake of keeping everything civil I also think the last two comments show that we're still all a little at fault. Edited by Ulgania, May 16 2009, 01:49 PM.
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| New Harumf | May 16 2009, 02:17 PM Post #42 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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God forbid anyone should piss Gassel off! God forbid anyone should piss Kas off! God forbid anyone would want to play with the Dominion because "humor" is not allowed! AA, I don't care now. Warn me, ban me, whatever, but this guy is an egotistical asshole that has no idea of his annoying nature. You are all responsible for "humoring" him. That make you all co-conspiritor assholes. "You won't be allowed to take my satellite down!" Geez, can't we just ban this jackass? Get rid of him?? I was willing to cooperate with the end here, under HIS rules, but screw that now. I will do everything in y power to run afoul of any and all plans this jerk has. I will conspire with EVERYONE in private to ruin every and any plan he has. If you mods don't think this is in the nature of the board, then why have you let him do exactly the same thing. Either the Dominion ends, TODAY, or I am gone. I've been here for many years because I was having a good time, but no more. The day "humor" is not allowed is the end of this forum. Nag, we may have wanted a world war, but to have such you must have two sides - not one "humorless" totalitarian administration' I knew this was coming when mr. Asshole usurped the Olympics away from CE, who had called for it first. Then, all he did was bitch, even though I had artifically given him a home field advantage in the games! What a total egotistical, childish, pinheaded asshole. Why don't you just take your ball and go home. Edited by New Harumf, May 16 2009, 02:24 PM.
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| Assassin | May 16 2009, 02:27 PM Post #43 |
Field Marshal
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Clearly this has gone on long enough. I'm locking this before yet another person ragequits due to this horseshit. NH, I'll talk to you here privately here in a few minutes. Same with you Kas. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | May 16 2009, 03:00 PM Post #44 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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Heh, good locking AA. Just edited NH's post and ended up double locking the thread. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | May 16 2009, 03:38 PM Post #45 |
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Science and Industry
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This post is in response to a post in the locked thread but I figured I'd continue it here because I think this post isn't incendiary or lock-worthy and contains some points I wanted to bring up.
Telo, I don't know who your post is addressed to but I think there are posts in this discussion that are not "childish arguing." I think your information is incomplete. The Dominion was not the "savior" of the forums and the forums did not need any "resuscitation" attempt. You are correct that, before the Dominion came into existence, people had for a long time been clamoring for a world war RP. However, you are incorrect in claiming that people "got what they asked for." Many people did not ask for a world war in which the Dominion took absolute control over the world and became a literally unbeatable force. I'm pretty sure most people were interested in a WWI- or WWII-type world war in which two (or more) gigantic power blocs fought an epic war. It's absolutely true that it would've been impossible to execute any sort of world war without some type of extensive pre-planning. But the plans that were in the end implemented - involving one gigantic power bloc - was not the plan that people "asked for." Furthermore, as I've explained in previous posts, OOC attempts to change the Dominion plan were not taken to kindly because there was apparently a lot of time and effort spent formulating the Dominion plan and its architects weren't willing to throw out its basic premise of a unipolar world (which is understandable given the time invested in making the plan). All this is just a roundabout way of saying, the Dominion may have been intended to "resuscitate" the forum (though I don't believe the forum needed any "resuscitation" attempts), but it was unfortunately imposed on the forum unilaterally and without proper consultation. It was not at all "what people asked for" as you asserted. Furthermore it was never as simple as you asserted, that one could simply "cooperate by fighting the Dominion IC or fighting for the Dominion IC ". That's because many players believed fighting against the Dominion IC would invariably, 100% result in the defeat of the resisting nation and its occupation by the Dominion. I don't know if that belief was well founded but that was the impression everyone got from the organizers of the Dominion and no one "in the know" did anything to dispel that notion. Why would those players - the particular players who didn't want their country to be occupied - resist if they knew the admins and mods would OOC rule a Dominion victory in the outcome of any war? The only way for a country to avoid occupation was to become absolutely neutral and isolationist. Therefore I think your Holocaust analogy is unfair. According to the rules of NSWR - which state Country A can't be occupied by Country B without Country A's consent OOC - a more accurate Holocaust analogy is this: A Jew who doesn't want to be killed by a Nazi simply does not have to speak to the Nazi. If, by simply not speaking to the Nazi a Jew could guarantee himself a 100% chance of survival, wouldn't it make perfect sense for those players who didn't want their countries to be occupied, to simply ignore their neighbors and become absolutely neutral and isolationist and uninvolved? I'm raising all these points because I don't believe, as some seem to, that the organizers of the Dominion were crucified for doing something noble. I do sincerely believe that what they did, they did with best of intentions. (*Cue shooting the guy on the couch*) But the organizers of the Dominion were not crucified for it as you seem to believe. In becoming isolationist and uninvolved in RP, people reacted to the Dominion in ways that were expected and natural for being in their particular situation. True, this whole thing was pretty much one gigantic misunderstanding that clogged up RP. But I don't think it's at all fair to portray the Dominion as the "savior" or that the swinish multitudes ungratefully rejected their "cure". It wasn't a cure that anybody outside the Dominion "asked for" - and whose alternative ideas were in many situations not taken to kindly. Both sides had their points and both sides had their faults. |
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| New Harumf | May 16 2009, 03:43 PM Post #46 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Also, I think the mods do not realise my poll was legit. 17 to 2 to end the Dominion. Come on guys. What are you waiting for?? |
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| NRE | May 16 2009, 03:44 PM Post #47 |
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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An yet no one did the lock motion, oh I miss the days when CE could lock threads and did the lock motion. ^^ |
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| Assassin | May 16 2009, 03:46 PM Post #48 |
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Field Marshal
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:locked: Assassin does the lockomotion... |
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| Assassin | May 16 2009, 03:48 PM Post #49 |
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Field Marshal
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We do. Least I do anyways, as I tend to talk to everyone. 52% of the voters can't even stand to hear the name. And yet... we all have to obey the majority. ...wait... :rolleyes: |
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| Quaon | May 16 2009, 03:48 PM Post #50 |
A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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I was posting this in the thread that NH just posted that was deleted, and fuck it if I'm going to not post something that took this long to write: Kas is a veteran. And because AA was so kind as to lock the Dominion thread, I'll post my thoughts on the matter, being one of the players who left in its wake. First off, it needs to be said that the Dominion wasn't my reason for leaving. My reasons for leaving were OOC; a combination of being busy and realizing that NS was dominating my life to an unhealthy degree. Seriously, it should not be possible to have 8,000 posts on this forum. The Dominion was an ambitious project that showed a great deal of potential. It was the sort of idea that I had tried to get going for a long time; a global war of truly epic proportions. Initially, I was opposed, thinking it was another pipe dream. I also got into arguments with Kas as it conflicted with an RP that I had been planning for a year, involving a Chiron civil war. I eventually agreed to jettison the RP until later, thinking that the Dominion probably wouldn't work out, and, if it did, it would be cool enough to justify. The Kasnyian Civil War was a pretty cool RP, though it could've gone a bit faster. I liked the setting of the stage. I was getting excited. The Dominion showed promise. Now, the problems with the Dominion began spouting up before it came into being. First off, it didn't make IC sense. There was no conceivable reason for ultranationalist leaders to ally into a "League of Supervillains". If the Dominion were simply an alliance, this would be slightly more acceptable, though still a bit of a stretch. Honestly, this has more to do with the beloved concept of "evil nations" which I myself was guilty of in Zolony. The whole evil nations thing tends to create rather one sided countries that are not really interesting to RP with and would be economically and politically unfeasible. Beyond that, no nation actively attempts to have its symbols look evil as the Dominion did. But I digress. Essentially, there's no reason for the God-Emperor of Scythirus to ally with Anton Proust. In retrospect, the Dominion would have been quite interesting if it were more of a straight soldiers coalition, primarily one with western character. No monarchs, no communists, just straight militarism. But this bugged me. The creation of a nigh-unstoppable army was also a problem. While I have to admit I thought it would be absolutely epic, it had no real possible counter. If the Treaty of Konigsberg had remained strong along with the Shanghai Pact, that would have been a possibility, but of course, that didn't happen. The turning point for me was the conversion of Catholic Europe to the Dominion, which I thought was generally noobish and made not an ounce of IC sense when given that nation's history with every other nation involved in the Dominion. It took away any fighting chance that Europe might have had. Further, if we were to have an interesting Stalin analog, it should have come from CE, and that prevented it. Part of the reasoning behind me attempting to revive the Roman Empire with RD, TC, and Siad was to create a counter to the Dominion that actually had a chance in hell of surviving. That didn't work out all that well due to inactivity and such (actually, I don't recall exactly what killed the RPing potential there). Off topic here, but another thing that really pissed me off was this sudden bullshit about CE being the "Roman Empire" when that had never before been emphasized in the history of the forum and in fact more or less conflicted what had been said in the History of the Papacy and other threads. While admittedly it does make more sense than the established history, it served essentially to fuck with the whole Orthodox nations' histories. Fine, it makes more sense, but since when have the forums been anything other than absurd? Honestly, the biggest thing that pissed me off pre-Dominion was the Georgian War, where I was not informed that my entire army of several million was to be completely wiped out 2/3rds of the way into the war, past the point where I could reasonably back out. The roleplaying of the Middle Eastern side, while generally decent, became noobish and godmodey at times, ignoring basic geography, and worse still in one case, basic RP etiquette. It had been agreed that I would get to make a post about the destruction of my army where it would be given sufficient drama, and then Scy decided that it would be great to make a shit post about my armies being destroyed. Beyond that, the treatment of the Middle Eastern forces as numerically and militarily superior was idiotic, considering that looking at the numbers, the forces should have been about equal. I don't have major problems with the quality of the RP there, but the way it was went about. Then the Dominion happened, it looked interesting, and real life kicked in. I come back, RPing is dead, everyone hates Kas. I don't really want to jump back in. I try NS2, it sucks, meh. In conclusion, finish the fucking RP, stop getting so goddamned upset at each other, and make this board interesting again. It deserves that much. |
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