Obama's Royal Coronation

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Obama's Royal Coronation
Topic Started: Jan 6 2009, 03:41 PM (1,327 Views)
New Harumf	Jan 20 2009, 11:33 PM Post #26
Bloodthirsty Unicorn Posts: 9,638 Group: Forum Mods Member #177 Joined: October 8, 2005	Kasnyia Jan 20 2009, 10:39 PM Most foresight when it comes to politics, including that of the rest of you all, is pathetic at best. I will not judge Obama (just as I didn't judge Bush) until AFTER the fact, as hindsight is a much better judge of action. But then, most of you seem more intent on doom-and-gloom scenarios simply because he doesn't support your views rather than actually waiting to see what happens. Even from "fact" or "evidence" of what he says (and that goes for any new president, or even one returning to office) he will do during a campaign is meaningless, as that changes to the circumstances and to negotiation with the government. I have no worry about Obama handling Reid/Pelosi. He will be able to wield the power of the public against them if need be, at least for the first term. Meh. Perhaps I'll stop posting in this thread. Such overwhelming pessimism has become anathema to me as of late. If you include me in this pessimism, I will be upset.



Ulgania	Jan 20 2009, 11:36 PM Post #27
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	My pessimism doesn't come from Obama, but from the fact that the USA seems to be going the way of all the other big empires. We have a government that wants to let citizens stay soft and serviceable, but not as hard working as our predecessors. But all the same, I have faith in Obama.



New Harumf	Jan 20 2009, 11:41 PM Post #28
Bloodthirsty Unicorn Posts: 9,638 Group: Forum Mods Member #177 Joined: October 8, 2005	Ulgania Jan 20 2009, 11:36 PM My pessimism doesn't come from Obama, but from the fact that the USA seems to be going the way of all the other big empires. We have a government that wants to let citizens stay soft and serviceable, but not as hard working as our predecessors. But all the same, I have faith in Obama. May your faith prove true.



Union	Jan 20 2009, 11:48 PM Post #29
Pyrenees Republic Posts: 3,219 Group: Forum Mods Member #307 Joined: December 27, 2006	Meh. I think he has the capacity to do very well.



Tristan da Cunha	Jan 21 2009, 12:13 AM Post #30
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Kasnyia Jan 20 2009, 10:39 PM Most foresight when it comes to politics, including that of the rest of you all, is pathetic at best. I will not judge Obama (just as I didn't judge Bush) until AFTER the fact, as hindsight is a much better judge of action. But then, most of you seem more intent on doom-and-gloom scenarios simply because he doesn't support your views rather than actually waiting to see what happens. Even from "fact" or "evidence" of what he says (and that goes for any new president, or even one returning to office) he will do during a campaign is meaningless, as that changes to the circumstances and to negotiation with the government. I have no worry about Obama handling Reid/Pelosi. He will be able to wield the power of the public against them if need be, at least for the first term. Meh. Perhaps I'll stop posting in this thread. Such overwhelming pessimism has become anathema to me as of late. You seriously believe there's a chance that Obama won't expand government bureaucracy, rack up huge deficits, and pursue other economic zombification policies? It's not an Obama thing. The media mouthpieces, the ignorant electorate, and other saboteurs are all calling for these policies, so it doesn't matter if Obama or McCain or Joe Biden is president. It's the system, not the person. The only reason Obama stands out is that he is more charismatic than the other people in Washington, but they're all from the same system in the end. It's not difficult to extrapolate and anticipate Obama's actions. He's merely continuing the last 70 years of destructive policies and there's no reason for him to turn course. Obama's not an innovator or "agent of change"... he is - like the presidents immediately preceding him - merely a trustee of an unstoppable and self-perpetuating leviathan system that will destroy not only this country but this entire society. Campaign promises do matter, because they have a scary way of coming true. You hear it every election season and these promises always come true: expand the national debt, expand the Federal entitlement programs, expand the world's biggest Ponzi scheme AKA Social Security. And this election season Obama's promising chronic war in Afghanistan, which harkens back to people like LBJ promising chronic war in Vietnam. The political puppet show of Obama/Reid/Pelosi is just that - a political puppet show. They are actors from the "circuses" part of the bread and circuses that are used as weapons to pacify and stupefy Americans. In modern times all the branches of government are consistently in collusion to destroy and upturn the very root of American society. Harry Reid's not even constitutional. You can't directly elect Senators! That amendment is BS. Yet people want Reid to stick around, because he puts on a good show, and because people no longer have any understanding of the United States Consitution, and even though Reid's just another a partner in crime with Obama, Dick Cheney, the Bushes, Pelosi, and the central bank, and the other fascist corporate elements that have been plundering and raping this country. Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jan 21 2009, 12:29 AM.



Tristan da Cunha	Jan 21 2009, 12:21 AM Post #31
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Ulgania Jan 20 2009, 11:36 PM My pessimism doesn't come from Obama, but from the fact that the USA seems to be going the way of all the other big empires. We have a government that wants to let citizens stay soft and serviceable, but not as hard working as our predecessors. That's the most insightful and heartbreaking post of this thread I think.



Kasnyia	Jan 21 2009, 01:04 AM Post #32
Chairman of the Bank Posts: 12,339 Group: Veterans Member #164 Joined: July 15, 2005	I never said he would or wouldn't. I care not the means when it comes to politicians (within reason of mass killing of citizens or some such). I am not an ignorant man, and I am aware of the system, its excesses, and all that. I do not care, however, as I also realize the stupidity of a good deal of the constituition itself along with the ideals that created it. If/When it finally becomes a problem for me, I'll move. Its just that simple. As for your rants, it is through that that your predictions become self-fufilling, as you don't even bother to give a chance and instead revel in doom-calling. I'll stick to basing a man on what he has already done (which is probably why I don't hate Bush as much as everyone else I know does), not what he will do, especially if the latter is out of spite, which from your post is rather obvious. My position has nothing to do with ideology (I don't even have the privalege of having my ideology represented in the political realm), it has to do with being sick and tired of the cynical/pessimistic types who have driven me up the wall these past eight years. So you can take your rants about the evils of the system and shove it, because I'm done hearing it. Because, in the end, everything always corrects itself, for better or worse. Either way, bring it on I say.



Ulgania	Jan 21 2009, 02:22 AM Post #33
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	Tristan da Cunha Jan 21 2009, 12:21 AM Ulgania Jan 20 2009, 11:36 PM My pessimism doesn't come from Obama, but from the fact that the USA seems to be going the way of all the other big empires. We have a government that wants to let citizens stay soft and serviceable, but not as hard working as our predecessors. That's the most insightful and heartbreaking post of this thread I think. You're telling me. Obama could end up being a visionary who gets the economy on course, ends international wars, and expands trade. But capital is still leaving the country faster than we can make up for it. He can usher in a new age, but it's still going to be within a status quo that Americans don't want to let go of. Look at oil, and the fact that it's a target for investors who managed to screw over the market and over-value the price, and now under-value. We don't really care about the capacity we have as a people, but simply where we can throw our money to get a little bit more money... without effort. It's pretty much going down the tubes, and no one's going to do anything until it comes to a crashing, abysmal end.



Eleytheria-Duo	Jan 21 2009, 04:24 AM Post #34
Resident Bystander Posts: 2,370 Group: Map Makers Member #298 Joined: November 16, 2006	Allesandra Is anyone not watching it besides me? I was under the impression you liked him? I thought one would want to hear the inauguration speech of someone they support. Otherwise, No offense, it was just a blind approbation. Ulgania You're telling me. Obama could end up being a visionary who gets the economy on course, ends international wars, and expands trade. But capital is still leaving the country faster than we can make up for it. He can usher in a new age, but it's still going to be within a status quo that Americans don't want to let go of. Look at oil, and the fact that it's a target for investors who managed to screw over the market and over-value the price, and now under-value. We don't really care about the capacity we have as a people, but simply where we can throw our money to get a little bit more money... without effort. It's pretty much going down the tubes, and no one's going to do anything until it comes to a crashing, abysmal end. If you had any idea how stupidly idiotic that sounded, you'd probably be just as alarmed at your statements as I was. "Obama being the visionary that ends international wars," and "Ushering in a new age?" Well if we take that for a sweet grape on the vine, why don't we just throw in Obama being the first President to sign an intergalactic treaty into effect while we're at it, just for good measure... I'd love you to cite a single stated Policy from three of the most important categories, Economy, National Security and Foreign Diplomacy, that even makes Obama a decent candidate for President. While I won't judge performance before the real drudgery is over, I have seen scant evidence that he will be any different from any other President in our history. In the election, people were given two choices; Virtue or Promises, they chose promises, because apparently it made them feel all special and hopeful to participating in something "oh so much bigger than they are." Bah, it sickens me to listen to those idealistic fools anymore...



Great New France	Jan 21 2009, 09:10 AM Post #35
Major Posts: 1,844 Group: Members Member #106 Joined: February 26, 2005	New Harumf Jan 20 2009, 12:39 PM May God keep him safe, and may his presidency be the best ever. It is now 12:38 EST. Suddenly I just don't feel as safe as I did 39 minutes ago. I think no matter anybody says, it is a historic day for the United States of America: for the first time in its history, an African American is the President. This is something to reflect upon in the light the people who fought for decades to make this possible. Martin Luther King, somewhere up there, must feel his "dream" has been fulfilled to an extent. Now after all that nice talking, nice words, time has come for delivery and that is on what personally I will judge Barack Obama. He's a great orator, has a good amount of charisma but after all I think what matters are his actions and not good deeds. That's on what he's accountable and in the light of the huge challenges he's facing, it's not going to be an easy job.



Great New France	Jan 21 2009, 09:16 AM Post #36
Major Posts: 1,844 Group: Members Member #106 Joined: February 26, 2005	New Harumf Jan 20 2009, 02:52 PM I was not being sarcastic or whimsical. We need a President to assult the excesses of Congress, and if Pres. Obama does not stand up to Harry Ried and Nancy Pelosi immediately THEY will be running the country and creating policy, not the President. I pray very sincerely that Pres. Obama ca be the strong and decisive president we need right now. I also pray that everyone realizes we have gone 7 1/2 years without being attacked on our own soil by terrorists, due soley to the dilligence and vision of our former president. If nothing else, he deserves high marks for that. I do not feel as safe with Obama, because those that want to do us harm are still out there, wanting to blow us to Kingdom come. I liked his speech, but once again, it was empty rhetoric without substance. I will cheer his successes from here on, but when he missteps I will cry to the angels and curse his name. Oh, I believe the people can elect anyone they want, and deserve who they get. If they truly want someone for 16 years, fine with me. As long as it is done four years at a time. They'll have to change the Constitution if they want someone to stay in power for 16 years... Fortunately your presidents' limits to their respective mandates is 8 years and that's already a good amount of time. In France, the mandate of the President of the Republic used to be 7 years (there's no limit to be re-elected though), Chirac amended the Constitution in 2000 to 5 years.



Tristan da Cunha	Jan 21 2009, 09:40 AM Post #37
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Ulgania Jan 21 2009, 02:22 AM Tristan da Cunha Jan 21 2009, 12:21 AM Ulgania Jan 20 2009, 11:36 PM My pessimism doesn't come from Obama, but from the fact that the USA seems to be going the way of all the other big empires. We have a government that wants to let citizens stay soft and serviceable, but not as hard working as our predecessors. That's the most insightful and heartbreaking post of this thread I think. You're telling me. Obama could end up being a visionary who gets the economy on course, ends international wars, and expands trade. He might end international wars but he won't get the economy on course. In fact he will make the economy worse.



Tristan da Cunha	Jan 21 2009, 09:49 AM Post #38
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Kasnyia Jan 21 2009, 01:04 AM I'll stick to basing a man on what he has already done (which is probably why I don't hate Bush as much as everyone else I know does) That doesn't make any sense. Most people who hate Bush are also basing him on what he has already done...



Ulgania	Jan 21 2009, 09:50 AM Post #39
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	Quote: If you had any idea how stupidly idiotic that sounded, you'd probably be just as alarmed at your statements as I was. "Obama being the visionary that ends international wars," and "Ushering in a new age?" Well if we take that for a sweet grape on the vine, why don't we just throw in Obama being the first President to sign an intergalactic treaty into effect while we're at it, just for good measure... If you read my post you'd see that I was saying ---no matter what he does the country is on the decline.--- He could save the economy, be the second coming of Christ, and the Dali Lama. The USA is still going to go on a decline the same way Rome, the British Empire, hell, even Holland's empire did.



Al Araam	Jan 21 2009, 05:52 PM Post #40
Demigod of Death & Inactivity Posts: 3,486 Group: Global Mods Member #102 Joined: February 19, 2005	I've read some interesting research on the rising and falling cycles of power in a number of empires including the Dutch and British. From what I remember, it contends the power of empires goes into a period of decline at least two times and in many cases several times then recovers from with a period of increasing power. So yes, the imperial power of the United States is currently in decline, but it remains to be seen if this is just a decline in imperial power that will be followed by a resurgence of American power, or whether this is the decline in imperial power that will see another nation step up and assume the title of hegemon.



New Harumf	Jan 21 2009, 06:08 PM Post #41
Bloodthirsty Unicorn Posts: 9,638 Group: Forum Mods Member #177 Joined: October 8, 2005	Kiev-Volhynia Jan 21 2009, 05:52 PM I've read some interesting research on the rising and falling cycles of power in a number of empires including the Dutch and British. From what I remember, it contends the power of empires goes into a period of decline at least two times and in many cases several times then recovers from with a period of increasing power. So yes, the imperial power of the United States is currently in decline, but it remains to be seen if this is just a decline in imperial power that will be followed by a resurgence of American power, or whether this is the decline in imperial power that will see another nation step up and assume the title of hegemon. The US has only been an imperial power for about 60 years. Prior to that we were an isolationist power with limited regional ambitions. Compared to the hundreds of years the British Empire, Spanish Empire, hell, even the Dutch Empire existed, we barely make a blimp on the radar. If we are an imperial power, we have been reluctantly, at least from the standpoint of the people, except for perhaps the last 10 years. We might just be returning to our isolationist roots, which would not be a bad thing. The big B.O. could do worse than move us back into a semi-isolationist military power (economically, I believe that ship can never float again). Let the empire builders be those nations whose people are impressed by that sort of thing (the French, British, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, etc. etc. etc.) Personally I'd love to see a little less international rock-and-roll coming out of this country.



Rhadamanthus	Jan 21 2009, 07:14 PM Post #42
Legitimist Posts: 12,945 Group: Admin Member #19 Joined: January 13, 2004	New Harumf, that sounds great. If President Obama will do as New Harumf has suggested, I will be forever greatful. America was not made for empire...



Tristan da Cunha	Jan 21 2009, 07:41 PM Post #43
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	New Harumf Jan 21 2009, 06:08 PM The US has only been an imperial power for about 60 years. Prior to that we were an isolationist power with limited regional ambitions. Compared to the hundreds of years the British Empire, Spanish Empire, hell, even the Dutch Empire existed, we barely make a blimp on the radar. If we are an imperial power, we have been reluctantly, at least from the standpoint of the people, except for perhaps the last 10 years. We might just be returning to our isolationist roots, which would not be a bad thing. The big B.O. could do worse than move us back into a semi-isolationist military power (economically, I believe that ship can never float again). Let the empire builders be those nations whose people are impressed by that sort of thing (the French, British, Italians, Japanese, Chinese, etc. etc. etc.) Personally I'd love to see a little less international rock-and-roll coming out of this country. Damn, that does give me hope. If Obama can return this country to its roots, I'll be amazed and humbled. Obama needs to fire Joe Biden, Rahm Emanuel, and Hillary Clinton. Those three are the most dangerous internationalists in the Democratic party these days and unless they are stopped, they'll help destroy more American blood and treasure in pursuit of ruinous foreign adventures...



Ulgania	Jan 21 2009, 08:45 PM Post #44
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	Too many international institutions from after WW2 and the Cold War exist for the USA to do that. I wouldn't mind seeing it, but it's less likely to happen than US military action in Nigeria.



East Anarx	Jan 21 2009, 09:04 PM Post #45
Anarchitect Posts: 4,788 Group: Multi Member #210 Joined: January 16, 2006	As TC pointed out, Obama, McCain, Bush, it's all the same in the end. Just figureheads for the sheeple to direct their love, hate, blame, (whatever emotion the mainstream media decides is appropriate,) while the international bankers and corporatist imperialists slowly but surely enslave everyone.



Tristan da Cunha	Jan 21 2009, 09:07 PM Post #46
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Ulgania Jan 21 2009, 08:45 PM Too many international institutions from after WW2 and the Cold War exist for the USA to do that. I wouldn't mind seeing it, but it's less likely to happen than US military action in Nigeria. I think it's safe to say the current economic crisis will change the landscape and change old assumptions about WW2 and CW. Hopefully the economic crisis will result in the decline of internationalism, but there's also a scary chance that it will usher in some type of beastly UN-run world government. But initial signs are hopeful, because countries are starting to get into protectionist trade wars and the Euro zone is in the process of falling apart.



Ulgania	Jan 21 2009, 09:22 PM Post #47
A better Zarathustra has never rode a horse Posts: 4,041 Group: Members Member #450 Joined: June 3, 2008	It could also turn into another country becoming a superpower, economically anyway. A unilaterally-run world system of trade can't be sustained, but give it multiple powers than it can work... at least work better and longer. The USSR is probably a bad choice because it wasn't trying very hard with its economy (oil money to literally pay for baking bread... wonderful). Say what you will, but a globalized, competitive system of trade could make the world's economy run smoother.



Tristan da Cunha	Jan 21 2009, 09:27 PM Post #48
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	What do you mean by globalized, competitive system of trade?



Quaon	Jan 21 2009, 09:28 PM Post #49
A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later Posts: 8,837 Group: Forum Mods Member #209 Joined: January 11, 2006	Kasnyia Jan 20 2009, 10:39 PM Most foresight when it comes to politics, including that of the rest of you all, is pathetic at best. I will not judge Obama (just as I didn't judge Bush) until AFTER the fact, as hindsight is a much better judge of action. But then, most of you seem more intent on doom-and-gloom scenarios simply because he doesn't support your views rather than actually waiting to see what happens. Even from "fact" or "evidence" of what he says (and that goes for any new president, or even one returning to office) he will do during a campaign is meaningless, as that changes to the circumstances and to negotiation with the government. I have no worry about Obama handling Reid/Pelosi. He will be able to wield the power of the public against them if need be, at least for the first term. Meh. Perhaps I'll stop posting in this thread. Such overwhelming pessimism has become anathema to me as of late. I agree fully with Kas.



Sedulius	Jan 22 2009, 12:28 PM Post #50
Field Marshal Posts: 4,727 Group: Members Member #427 Joined: March 29, 2008	I didn't watch it, and I didn't really care. I think I lost faith in this country long before I realized it. Call me unpatriotic, because that's what I am, because I really just don't care anymore. From now on, I'm looking out for me and mine. I'm living life doing what I need to do, and doing the right thing when it comes down to it. If I'm still in this country when I get into power, I will do the right thing. I still feel patriotism for what America used to be, but America has lost what it was. Given the chance, I would work to bring the old America back. However, until then, I'm just going to live my life the best way I can.


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