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| Poll: Tech Era | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 16 2008, 09:16 AM (909 Views) | |
| Arya Hindustan | Oct 18 2008, 09:55 AM Post #51 |
Private
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Im not trying to change NSWR. Anyway, we will vote on it later. And you still have not countered my part about it not being human nature. And also about the part why we currently do not have technology advancements. |
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| New Harumf | Oct 18 2008, 10:21 AM Post #52 |
Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Are you kidding? North America natives were STONE AGE for goodness sake! As a matter of fact, the Cheyenne culture was just moving into an agrarian society and is the only nation on record to go backwards after contact with Europeans to hunter/gatherer. No bronze age people here, at all! Central and South America were slightly more advanced, but not by much. One interesting point is how history would have changed if the Chinese Eunichs had not banned distance navigation in 1470. They had the ships to cross the Pacific and were working on it when the ban went into place, so imagine if the Chinese had discovered America 20 years before Columbus!! Ha. Now, that's an interesting role play. |
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| Arya Hindustan | Oct 18 2008, 10:23 AM Post #53 |
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Private
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Summary of NS2WR so far: Well, the majority has voted that, regardless where we start, we will not follow RL history. Also, I think so far the era that is "leading" is 1900s, as though it is tied at 4(which is the highest) in another thread, here it is the highest at 5. More than not have said that they would like technology to advance. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Oct 18 2008, 11:16 AM Post #54 |
Science and Industry
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Your point about human nature is completely irrelevant. You are correct, we are not simulating actual humans. If you want to think about human nature go read "Moby-Dick". If you want to waste a couple hours of a school day afternoon playing a fun, lighthearted RP play NSWR. It is true that we currently do not have technological developments. However, a steampunk civilization could also have no technological developments and it would make perfect sense. The logistical difficulties associated with technological advancements are not worth ruining this solid, battle tested RP system. Also don't get too hopeful that these votes count for anything. Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Oct 18 2008, 11:17 AM.
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| Sedulius | Oct 18 2008, 01:16 PM Post #55 |
Field Marshal
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One point to make: the new game and forum are not NSWR, thus there will be new rules and very likely new gameplay. NS2WR simply will not turn out to be the same. I always though not having tech advancement was a weakness of NSWR. To be honest, I have gotten bored in that aspect. To be able to build your nation from an older period up, that is nation building. There is nothing fun about things being static. And it looks to me like half of the voters agree. You cannot simply sweep aside this opinion because of your own. But as I have said, the decision to advance should be made later, since that is when everyone will want to do it, later. Right now, the debate to impose a rule that will likely be swept aside at a later date anyways is pointless. We will have to create a new set of rules when we begin the new game, and I suggest we wait until NS2 goes into public release before doing so. There are still many aspects of the game that we do not yet know. EDIT: As far as how long we're letting the polls run, the first has run its course. I think the other two should run until they get close to the amount of votes of the first for accuracy. Edited by Sedulius, Oct 18 2008, 01:24 PM.
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| New Harumf | Oct 18 2008, 01:47 PM Post #56 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Oh yeah? Tell that to my Amish! We don't need no technical advancement! |
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| Rhadamanthus | Oct 18 2008, 02:52 PM Post #57 |
Legitimist
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Some of us voted for tech advancement in the poll precisely because we want the same sort of highly limited tech development present the current RP. The point of the game is to be able to last ad infinitum so any model of tech development must have that as its key parameter. Also, I'm not sure why you are saying the new game won't be NSWR... last I checked the plan was to create a sub-forum on this site to basically play an NSWR-style game with a new world and a new game engine (NS2 instead of NS1). That said, I agree that all this talk of tech advancement can come later; you are right about that. So lets abolish the tech advancement poll now since it is a needless distraction now. |
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| Sedulius | Oct 18 2008, 04:19 PM Post #58 |
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Field Marshal
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Would you or an admin be able to remove that poll, or do we just ignore it? As far as saying NS2WR is not NSWR, I'm just pointing out: it's not. It'll be the same style, sure, but new rules, rule changes, if not an entirely new set of rules will have to be drafted since it will be based off of the NS2 system, which is not entirely fleshed out yet. For example: war. Here we are not allowed to attack one another without asking. In the NS2 world, depending on how the war system works, we very well could outright attack each other. Though that has its downsides, it would add a certain level of realism. We could truly have surprise attacks. :P Just hopefully the war system is some retarded simple system like some games (like Triumph on myspace... bleh). Which is why we wait, of course... |
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| Union | Oct 18 2008, 04:31 PM Post #59 |
Pyrenees Republic
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I really think we should wiat until NS2 comes out of Beta before deciding on tech things. If they add CN like tech levels, for example, it would certainly be possible to create a system based on tech advancement within the era we're looking to RP as. :) |
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| lebowski2123 | Oct 18 2008, 04:43 PM Post #60 |
Resident?
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What the fuck are you talking about. Now I'm getting pissed, rather than annoyed. The new forum is NSWR. Maybe you've been too bored to notice, but our forum here has ZERO to do with the NS website itself. All you need is an account for god's sake. No new rules will be "fleshed out" based on the new NS2 configuration. Don't count on it at least. And oh, you're bored? Than you can leave; it's easy, just don't log in ever again. You have no right to try and judge this forum, and call for change, having been here for what, 2 months? When I arrived at this forum, I was first greeted by a fellow named Wadj. I read a military manual written by a guy who had recently left, Patrua. One of my favorite people on the forum was Norightsia, I figured he'd be here after I left. I joined the Poiters Pact, and was allied with the Resplendent Dawn and the Trilateral Commission. All those guys had been active for YEARS before I arrived, and I thought they'd all be here when I left. They enjoyed a good story, regardless of the circumstances of tech, or even the continued existence of their countries. For you to come in here and say that after 2 months you're bored really doesn't mean jack-shit. You're insulting the history of this board, the most successful forums I've ever come across, after 2 months? Nation building is about a story, a progression of characters and plot, not about amassing technologies. God knows why the hell you're here in the first place if that's all you're after. EDIT: Maybe I'm channeling my inner Scythius, but you can go screw. Edited by lebowski2123, Oct 18 2008, 04:45 PM.
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| Sedulius | Oct 18 2008, 06:29 PM Post #61 |
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Field Marshal
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leb, you need to cool off. It's just a game. I was only pointing out that with the new game system, new rules might need to be drafted. There are aspects of NSWR, as I'd think you should well know, that are based on aspects of NS. Economy and population are the two largest. Economy and population have had a drastic overhaul in NS2, and the rules for NS2WR will need to change from NSWR to compensate. Your word is not the forum's word or opinion, leb. I think you're overstepping it a bit. For the record, and you would know this if you simply glanced to the side, I've been here for over six months. Do you really think I use this as a measure of respect? No. I think you should show everyone respect, no matter how new they are. You have shown me an utter lack of respect for no logical reason. You are simply angry that I have consistently disagreed with you and have suggested that things will be different in NS2WR from NSWR. It really is not such a large deal to get so worked up over, so cool off and act mature. Edited by Sedulius, Oct 18 2008, 06:29 PM.
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| lebowski2123 | Oct 18 2008, 06:51 PM Post #62 |
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Resident?
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Please, without editing, show me the word "might" anywhere in your last two statements. I ask anyone who has been here over 1 year to post if they disagree with my previous statements, with the exception of the profanity. I have shown you respect, as I have shown respect to all members, past and present, on this forum. However, I respect the opinions of people who have been here longer on matters of the forum and its future manifestations. I feel that you do not represent the type of RPer who appreciates this forum, and that is your right. Do not attempt to change it based upon your own desires, the intent and format of this game is bigger than you, or me. My logical reason for disrespecting you is that you have failed to retain my respect, through your words in this thread and others. |
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| Sedulius | Oct 18 2008, 07:54 PM Post #63 |
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Field Marshal
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You did not show me respect in your last post. You acted as if my opinion did not matter and assumed I have been here but two months even though that information was readily available. Do not suddenly paint yourself as some figure of respect when you have so plainly shown disrespect. I have as much right as anyone here to state my opinion so long as it is not meant with inflammatory intent, which none of my statements in this thread have been meant to do. Rather, they have been meant for only debate of a point. As such, I will state my opinion, whether or not it has to do with change. The only thing I have proposed here is the possible change in rules for a fictional world that does not yet exist. And, as I you so stated, I repeatedly stated it as a possibility, not demanded it. You show further disrespect by passing judgment on who I am, which seems to based on the single statement that I am bored. That statement proves nothing save that I am bored, and should not be used as the basis for anything other than that. Having your respect matters little to me. You are simply some person some where else in the world that I will likely never meet, thus your respect is of no consequence to me. However, if you do not have respect for me, this does not automatically mean that you can show disrespect for me. Disrespect is inflammatory, and being inflammatory is against the forum rules. You may want to choose your words carefully from here on out. Remember the golden rule: treat others how you wish to be treated. Thus, if you wish to have respect, show respect. This does not mean that if another disrespects you that you show disrespect, but rather that you hold to the rule and continue to show respect. This debate becomes pointless as it goes on, as you seem to have made this a personal matter. I myself could care less about your feelings. My only concern in this thread is the debate of possibilities of the system. Say what you will. |
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| East Anarx | Oct 18 2008, 08:12 PM Post #64 |
Anarchitect
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:zzz: |
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| lebowski2123 | Oct 18 2008, 08:18 PM Post #65 |
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Resident?
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Please, if I have ever shown anyone here disrespect, make yourself known. Of course I didn't show you respect in my last post, I was referring to your entire stay here up until that post. I assumed that it would be inferred that telling someone to screw is not respectful. You're right, I did not check how long you've been here, and for that I apologize. I am a figure of respect, as in my time here I have never shown anyone disrespect of any kind. I have become "inflamed" at your repeated, and intentional, abridgment of the existing rules of this forum. Your suggestions for possible change run contrary to the tradition and intent of this particular forum, and although no demands have been issued you have refused to acknowledge counterarguments made. As for you in general, I'm pretty much done. Just make sure you don't fall and break your neck getting off of that high horse, if you ever choose to do so. |
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| Union | Oct 18 2008, 08:20 PM Post #66 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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I move that everyone realizes these polls are meaningless until the full NS2 system is known [out of beta] and the game actually begins. |
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| East Anarx | Oct 18 2008, 08:27 PM Post #67 |
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Anarchitect
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Agreed. |
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| Toussaint | Oct 18 2008, 10:35 PM Post #68 |
Major
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I disagree with your statements. You were a bit out of line there, Leb. |
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| Telosan | Oct 18 2008, 10:51 PM Post #69 |
The Foremost Intellectual Badass
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Okay. What the hell? I don't even know how that argument got so heated so quickly. It's a NEW forum, with NEW rules. It's an experiment. We should try advancing through time to start. If it doesn't work out we can stop it, and return to the traditional 1 era play. An argument is not needed. And Lebo, I haven't been here for a year, but, I say that was over the line. Lets forget this, and move on. We can't work out the problems and situations that arise in this new forum if everyone suddenly shouts curses and starts swinging at the slightest provocation. |
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| NRE | Oct 18 2008, 11:08 PM Post #70 |
Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman
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Leb as pointed out, population and one's economy of their nation on NS should reflect the nation you RP here. Now whether that is always done or not is something of a mystery at least to me. I like to think that people realize this rule but sometimes I do wonder. I agree (I'm like the 12th agreement on this I think) that things of this nature should be left until the game comes out with all the bells and whistle we've been promised. That said, I think a lot (if not all) of the rules which have governed (with little amendments needed) this fair world of ours can and should be used when those who choose to play in this alternate reality get to start this new game. Siad, you brought up that military will now be determined by whatever military you can build on your account in NS2 and that now this allows for players to randomly attack without the need to ask before attacking. Why, would not the point of attacking still be to tell a story of the war? In my opinion (however far you wish to take it) the only thing that should change when it comes to war is how we determine the victory. This has always been a "loose" rule in our forums with some choosing to decide a victor before the war begins and others believing that you should let the war play out before declaring a winner. Now with this new system the guess work is taken out, but that doesn't mean that a good story should not still be told. Therefore without rules against attacking another player, people could go around attacking whomever they pleased without any need for a story at all, changing our forums and game play from that of an RP something more like an arcade game. As far as whether or not our technology level should advance or not, I will be honest and say that I don't like the idea of advancing technology levels. Sure it makes it interesting and I'm sure some people may get bored when they can't make the great ground-breaking technological advancements they want but here is the problem. Now not saying I've been around since the beginning, hell I probably don't have enough time in to believe I have room to dictate or given my 2 cents worth, but I believe static tech was developed into our rules (which I will remind the new comers that it was word-of-mouth rules when I first got here, wasn't until after I had been here that they were set in type) for one simple reason and that is, whether we like it or not, if technology is allowed to advance no matter what rules are put in place, it will eventually boil down to a "pissing contest" between two or more players. Again, good story telling will be push aside as players focus more on counter-balancing against another players "lazer gun." Even now in the our NSWR world I think a few nations have far push the boundaries that we've set for the technology-era that was setup here, myself included. Now I have no problem if more people want technology to advance, that is to say there is a great uproar for change but let such a decision, such a vote if you will be based on arguments made by players and not by votes in a poll as they can, as Leb I believe pointed out, not always represent the handful of registered members who actually contributed daily/weekly to our forums. One last thing I want to stress is this: This world, this forum, this game that Nag, Paradise, CE, RD, TC, etc (all the oldies) created for us is a world based on telling a story and not just any story either. This forum has seen some of the finest work I've had to esteemed pleasure of reading. There have been wars I couldn't put down nor could ignore and on the counter there have been politically base story that have captivated me even more. I strive everyday to think of stories and arches that I hope will one day compare to some of the great stories that I have read here. I don't believe I've gotten to that point, hell I've still got a ways to go in my own opinion but it's that challenge that has kept me here all this years. Thus it is my sincerest hope that we NS2 become fully available and all the bells an whistle are made clear that people will remember why we consider this gaming forum, an RP community. An that's because we're here to tell a good story regardless of who wins a war or loses one. Who develops the greatest technology the world has ever seen or who enjoy the simplicity of farm life. We should (it is my philosophy) always strive to put the story first, regardless of personal desires. It is that which should define us as players, which should marks us as veterans of the grounds and accomplished members of the forums. |
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| Arya Hindustan | Oct 18 2008, 11:36 PM Post #71 |
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Private
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edit: Anyways, since the other guys don't wish for us to continue, I will just stop here until NS2 is official. Edited by Arya Hindustan, Oct 18 2008, 11:37 PM.
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| Sedulius | Oct 19 2008, 12:26 AM Post #72 |
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Field Marshal
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I completely agree with you, NRE, that the story should be put first. If the war system ends up being arcade like, I would say we should be in a warless world, and continue to RP rules as we did here. Rules would still have to be modified as to how armies are built, due to the different economic system of NS2, but overall gameplay would be the same as NSWR. As to leb's statement, I have considered all counterarguments as far as the rules go. I find them to be valid arguments, I simply disagree with them, and debate. The point of debate is to get each others opinions across to discuss an issue. I'll simply ignore that last insult. I have no need for pride. Respect, however, is something I require. Disrespect will be rooted out as seen here. I apologize to everyone for the bickering done today, but this was due to no disrespect of my own. Respect is an issue I do not back down on. Sorry if I sound pompous, but I'm a heartless person lately, so I might come across that way. Well, if we are quite finished, let's get on to the issue at hand: the tech era. Whether or not we ever advance or stay static, the purpose of this thread is to choose the tech era. At this point, I really don't care what we do, I just want to get on with this, be done with this, and be ready. The decision is for the forum to make. So, go ahead, let's get back to discussing eras. Personally, I would go for any era. Specifically, I do favor the Dark Ages, Middle Ages, and Industrial Age. The amount of exaggeration and silliness that can be applied to the industrial age is what appeals to. Big mustaches, monocles, top hats, zeppelins, waltzes... yes. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Oct 19 2008, 12:27 AM Post #73 |
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Legitimist
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This. I'm going to assume for working purposes that we can port our current system and make changes as necessary to compensate for NS2 system changes. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Oct 19 2008, 12:30 AM Post #74 |
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Legitimist
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I think we have reached the point where we can presume the industrial setting in either the late 19th century or the early 20th century. That seems to be where the weight of the polling lies. Personally, I originally wanted a contemporary setting, but I am satisfied with the Industrial one. |
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| Sedulius | Oct 19 2008, 12:40 AM Post #75 |
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Field Marshal
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Yeah. We'll see where it all goes, eh? |
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