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| OOC: Olympics System | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 16 2008, 09:01 PM (1,469 Views) | |
| Comrade Queen | Jul 16 2008, 09:01 PM Post #1 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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I don't think Winter's gonna cut it for Kas. |
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| Kasnyia | Jul 17 2008, 10:30 AM Post #2 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Scy's quite right. No matter, I figured there was some problem, so I asked NH to work on one too, incase something came up. Of course if he also can't get it in before winter, I may have to postpone the games and get certain other RPs started up, or atleast call for another public brainstorming session to get around this sticking point. Do make your scoring program in the meantime (in the time you specified) just in case of course... Looking forward to the portrait, in anycase. :D Edited by Kasnyia, Jul 17 2008, 10:32 AM.
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 17 2008, 05:12 PM Post #3 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Well, if NH can't get it done either, I do know this girl who lives in the Netherlands that has a decent amount of programming skill. |
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| New Harumf | Jul 18 2008, 08:14 AM Post #4 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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If someopne could set out the criteria, I can put something together. Quickly. Nag, is that your ballpark?? |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 18 2008, 10:39 AM Post #5 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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For the Olympics? Sorry, tl:dr. (I'd like to thank AA for bastardising our forum to the extent that I can chan my way through posts.) I can put together a system for the Olypimics if Kas tells me what the system should have - but I got no-where to host it. If you want a dice based system, I know a few good public rollers. I did have an IRC dicebot. I could draft a system myself from scratch, but no guarentees Kas would like it. I can do this, just want to know how much free reign I have and how much hassel people want to put up with (and how much we trust each other not to cheat). But then, I'm sure NH can as well. Course, I'm not programing anything until the 30th - I got exams and essays until then. I'm in no possition to tell anyone else what to do - this is Kas's pet project not mine. |
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| New Harumf | Jul 18 2008, 10:51 AM Post #6 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Well, I'll program it. If he wants it purely random, fine, but I remember some talk awhile ago about using NS factors as weights on the outcome. If that is so, I'll need to know if anything was officially agreed on. Also, if that is the case, I will need time to accumulate data. Personally, I have no preference either way. |
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| Kasnyia | Jul 18 2008, 12:01 PM Post #7 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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I believe we had agreed that the economy of the nation would have an effect, like a bonus or something, I'm not sure what the consensus was if any. A CP-like system was suggested for it too, once upon a time, but I dunno how the consensus for that was too. Randomity is good, with the addition of some sort of economy bonus (in what manner, I do not know), but should we add any other criteria or do y'all think that will be enough? :huh: |
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| Toussaint | Jul 18 2008, 01:06 PM Post #8 |
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Major
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I've got a pretty simple one; though I don't think that economy should have an effect on this. I mean, how many Kenyans kick ass in the Olympics? Their economy isn't exactly picture perfect, you know.... -------------------------- NOTE: Based somewhat on the WE system Basically, you need to put out a list of events. Then, each nation gets X amount of points. They then distribute the points between the events as they see fit. Examples: Caronicilia Fencing- 30 Boxing- 10 Soccer- 15 Swimming- 15 Ping Pong- 15 Diving- 1 Field Hockey- 14 Total Points: 100 Kasnyia Fencing- 15 Boxing- 1 Soccer- 14 Swimming- 1 Ping Pong- 30 Diving- 14 Field Hockey- 1 Total Points: 100 After the teams have distributed their points (Which will be determined by how many events each nation is in; set up a maximum amount of points each nation can use per sport, like 50), you are ready to begin. You then run the numbers through a Random Number Generator and your set. Here's what's going on: Kasnyia and Caronicilia are facing off in a intense soccer match. Caronicilia has allocated 15 points to soccer, and Kasnyia has allocated 14. It's going to be close. A coin is flipped by a neutral party. If its heads, Caronicilia goes first (first alphabetically), and if it's tails, Kasnyia goes first (second alphabetically). The result is heads. What this means is Caronicilia's numbers are 1-15, and Kasnyia's are 16-29. You edit the number generator accordingly (3 random integers, between 1 and 29, in a single column.) The game is played! Lets take a look at the results! THE RESULTS: 10 29 16 Kasnyia wins! Two of the three numbers were between 16 and 29! Uh, my explanation was a bit crappy, but you should get the jist of it. Plus, it requirs no additional programming on our part. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 18 2008, 01:14 PM Post #9 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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Eh. I gave Kas an idea. He can post it. |
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| Kasnyia | Jul 18 2008, 01:28 PM Post #10 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Damn it, I'm too lazy.....Meh, alright. Nag's idea is pretty simple. You start with rolling two ten-sided dice, then added in an economy bonus (which will be 1 through 15 depending on how powerful that nation's economy is) which together produces a number. The player with the highest number wins. The player will also have a total of 15 speciality points to be spread at the player's discretion across the 30 events. Once you use up the 15, thats it though, so pick and choose wisely. So the formula is a simple addition. Dice1 + Dice2 + EconIndx + SpecialityPoint = Score In the case of a tie, the one who used the most speciality points in the event in question wins, followed by higher dice roll and then economy. Now there is just the matter of trying to calculate that economy index..... |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 18 2008, 01:35 PM Post #11 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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That's simple enough. I think you misunderstood me. I just meant go off the economic freedoms so... 15 - Frightening 14 - All-Consuming 13 - Powerhouse 12 - Thriving 11 - Very Strong 10 - Strong 09 - Good 08 - Fair 07 - Reasonable 06 - Developing 05 - Struggling 04 - Weak 03 - Fragile 02 - Basket Case 01 - Imploded Now it's a little unfair... less developed nations do do better than developed ones in some olympic events (genetic advantages and the desire to escape poverty)... but generally speaking, those with the funds to train their teams to a high standard are the ones who do best. Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Jul 18 2008, 01:36 PM.
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| A.Q. | Jul 18 2008, 01:41 PM Post #12 |
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Beautiful Snowflake
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I like Toussaint's idea |
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| Toussaint | Jul 18 2008, 01:46 PM Post #13 |
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Major
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Well, I'm not entirely into Nag's system... It's fine enough, I suppose, but it doesn't account for how "into" each sport a nation is. I mean, take Mexico, Brasil, or several European countries. They go ga-ga about soccer. Canada, however, is the same way about Hockey, or, to an extent, Lacrosse. China has its ping-pong. USA has its football. The list of national sports goes on and on. In the same sense, certain countries aren't at all receptive to certain sports, on any sort of level to speak of. Next, economy shouldn't be a major factor. I think it's a possibility (which could be worked into my system; perhaps a bonus amount of points to be added to X), but I don't think it should be a major determining factor. |
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| New Harumf | Jul 18 2008, 02:10 PM Post #14 |
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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Also, libertarian countries are, again, short-changed, considering most of their atheletes could or are trained via private or corporate funds. Look at the three most successful nations in the real summer olympics: USA - private and corporate funds Russia - public funds Germany (East and West combined) - mix of both I would rather see a point distribution system where each person can determine what sports his or her country is good at, and maybe base total points on population, with a generous minimum and maximum, like having three tiers: Below 1 billion - 100 points x percentage of sports involved in 1 billion to 5 billion - 120 points x percentage of sports over 5 billion - 140 points x % of sports Then break the sports down into major categories: Track and field Swimming and diving Team sports Boating and rowing Military Fighting and wrestling Miscellaneous Can still use the 10 sided dice idea, or some randnum system for that portion of score. So, (points allocated) x (randnum) = score or (points allocated) + (randnum) = score or Toussaint's index into number list idea! either way is a good choice. |
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| Nag Ehgoeg | Jul 18 2008, 02:19 PM Post #15 |
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The Devil's Advocate
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First off... Tou... you are wrong. You get specailty points that you can assign to events your nation is specialising in. See Kas's post above. Second, NH... you are wrong. Basing it off Economic Freedoms does not bias it against liberatarian nations. At all. Nor does it necessarily bias against left wing nations. Lastly... When working out the results of an event, nations will have a number between 3 and 50 points. Between 2 and 20 of those points will be random, between 1 and 15 being based off economy and 0-15 (assuming we're having 30 events, obviously this will need rebalancing depending on number of events) based on the player deciding what his nation is good at. If we want to reduce the effect of the RNG or economy, we can simply allow more specialist points. Edited by Nag Ehgoeg, Jul 18 2008, 02:23 PM.
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| Toussaint | Jul 18 2008, 02:24 PM Post #16 |
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Major
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I don't see how that makes me wrong :unsure: Al I'm saying is that with the first system, you can devise pretty much entirely how your team is going to perform. You'd be able to toss around your points however you'd like, with your national athletic culture in mind. Makes for much more customization. That way, everybody has a fair and equalish shot. Of course, certain factors could be added in on how many points each nation gets. If you'd like to use economy and population to calculate it, it can be done. Otherwise, everybody is on equal ground. The system is entirely able to be modified, and I think it will create the most variety in teams and results. |
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| Kasnyia | Jul 18 2008, 02:30 PM Post #17 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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First off, I call for a split from this to the Olympiad forum and retitled. Second of all, I was under the impression that speciality points were totally at the player's discression and thus could illustrate how "in" to a sport a country is. Maybe I'm missing something... :unsure: Also, how is it detrimental to libertarian states? I'm confused on THAT point too. :| |
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| Toussaint | Jul 18 2008, 02:47 PM Post #18 |
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Major
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Well yeah... but I don't like the dice rolls playing a factor, and I don't like the economy being a factor either. Nor do I like the "whoever has the biggest amount of points wins" deal. I'd prefer a system where the players can say exactly how in a sport is. For instance, Boxing may be HUGE, and have 40 points. Soccer may not, and have the minimum of 1 point. The 15 point spread gives for very little variety, and the roll of the dice leaves to much out of a players control, in my opinion. Plus, there's the whole long-shot thing, which is where the random number generator comes in. It may be hugely unlikely, but a low-bracket team of 5 points could foreseeably take on a legendary team of 50 points. Leaves the excitement of chance as a factor, and provides maximum customizing possibilities. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jul 18 2008, 04:20 PM Post #19 |
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Science and Industry
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There should be a racial weight to the calculations. Black people are better at sprinting, for example.
Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jul 18 2008, 04:21 PM.
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| Kasnyia | Jul 18 2008, 04:28 PM Post #20 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Frankly TC, I want a scoring system a bit more simpler than that. Racial weight and what not can be handled in the RP itself. And Caron, you should take a look at the figures in the RL Olympics. Those with good economy tend to do better than those without. As for the rest of your issues with the system, I'll let Nag take it since he designed it, and because I have nothing to say for or against in regards to that. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jul 18 2008, 04:56 PM Post #21 |
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Legitimist
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I adore the system that Nag described. |
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| Comrade Queen | Jul 18 2008, 05:09 PM Post #22 |
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Comrade Bitchqueen
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Nag's system has my vote. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jul 19 2008, 12:09 AM Post #23 |
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Science and Industry
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105812/ |
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| Kasnyia | Jul 19 2008, 12:36 AM Post #24 |
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Chairman of the Bank
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Regardless of whether or not you are right, TC, the issue can be handled in the RPs rather than in the system. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jul 19 2008, 10:16 AM Post #25 |
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Science and Industry
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I know, I was just being facetious. White Man Can't Jump is a great movie. |
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11:42 AM Jul 13