Thank you Supreme Court

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Thank you Supreme Court
Topic Started: Jun 26 2008, 03:01 PM (381 Views)
Tristan da Cunha	Jun 27 2008, 05:15 PM Post #26
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Paradise Jun 27 2008, 02:03 PM lebowski2123 Jun 27 2008, 01:20 PM You European guys are right, guns can't and shouldn't be handled by the common American man. Leave that to the criminals, right? Not to criminals, to policemen and the military. There shouldn't even be a such thing as the police! :lol:



lebowski2123	Jun 27 2008, 06:31 PM Post #27
Resident? Posts: 1,535 Group: Members Member #257 Joined: July 22, 2006	A criminal can disobey the law to obtain a gun illegally. A law abiding citizen cannot. Self-defense is a natural reaction, and for the government to actively prevent the taking of such a measure is outrageous. If the decision had gone the other way, well, people would have taken up the very arms now denied to them. Furthermore, if a criminal knows you don't own a gun, he will be more likely to commit a crime such as burglary against you. Firearms aren't catalysts, they are deterrents. Edited by lebowski2123, Jun 27 2008, 06:31 PM.



Paradise	Jun 28 2008, 12:19 AM Post #28
Resident bureaucrat Posts: 2,268 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: December 23, 2003	lebowski2123 Jun 27 2008, 06:31 PM Firearms aren't catalysts, they are deterrents. Firearms were created to kill, not to prevent.



Comrade Queen	Jun 28 2008, 12:45 AM Post #29
Comrade Bitchqueen Posts: 4,159 Group: Forum Mods Member #83 Joined: October 4, 2004	Paradise Jun 28 2008, 12:19 AM lebowski2123 Jun 27 2008, 06:31 PM Firearms aren't catalysts, they are deterrents. Firearms were created to kill, not to prevent. Are you aware of the amount of crimes that had the possibility of becoming violent that were deescalated because a concerned citizen had a concealed carry permit? The FBI has a report on this statistic. Such an event vastly outnumbers the number of criminal shootings in the US. I'd say the right to bear arms makes things a lot safer indeed. You're just flat out wrong.



A.Q.	Jun 28 2008, 05:19 AM Post #30
Beautiful Snowflake Posts: 906 Group: Members Member #429 Joined: April 13, 2008	alright, even if what Scy says is true: Whay about all the children who die from accidentally shooting themselves or a friend with the family gun? What about the statistics that say that you are much more likely to be hurt or killed by your own gun than by someone else's? What about the potential for crimes of passion, revenge, etc.? the list goes on and on, but I think you get the point.



Tristan da Cunha	Jun 28 2008, 07:44 AM Post #31
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Al Qalaa Jun 28 2008, 05:19 AM alright, even if what Scy says is true: Whay about all the children who die from accidentally shooting themselves or a friend with the family gun? What about the statistics that say that you are much more likely to be hurt or killed by your own gun than by someone else's? What about the potential for crimes of passion, revenge, etc.? the list goes on and on, but I think you get the point. All those risks are totally, 100% worth taking in order to assure that people have ample access to guns.



Nag Ehgoeg	Jun 28 2008, 08:01 AM Post #32
The Devil's Advocate Posts: 7,238 Group: Admin Member #7 Joined: December 26, 2003	Well you could look at simple murder rates in the US and compare to Europe then decide whether everyone carrying guns works or not. But you could also compare the murder rates in the US with the murder rates in Canada (where you can own guns) and decide that maybe it's not guns ****ing up America, but Americans. So we all know the solution - totally decriminalise guns in America and watch the resulting indirect genocide. No more Americans. No more problem. :D :lol: But seriously folks... guns are a good thing. In responsible hands. The average US citizen is not responisible enough to own a gun. I don't think guns should be restricted to just the police and military, but I do believe that citizens need more education about guns and they need to be harder to get. Much like knives in the UK. It used to be the knife owning criminals were responsible - you either used a knife as a tool to inflict fear (with no intent on using it) or you used it to get a quick kill before running like hell. Today any punk with a funny haircut thinks it's cool to grab a knife, flash it arround then stupidly assault someone with it. No respect for the lives of others or wasting your life in prison anymore.



New Harumf	Jun 28 2008, 09:45 AM Post #33
Bloodthirsty Unicorn Posts: 9,638 Group: Forum Mods Member #177 Joined: October 8, 2005	Nag Ehgoeg Jun 28 2008, 08:01 AM Well you could look at simple murder rates in the US and compare to Europe then decide whether everyone carrying guns works or not. But you could also compare the murder rates in the US with the murder rates in Canada (where you can own guns) and decide that maybe it's not guns ****ing up America, but Americans. So we all know the solution - totally decriminalise guns in America and watch the resulting indirect genocide. No more Americans. No more problem. :D :lol: But seriously folks... guns are a good thing. In responsible hands. The average US citizen is not responisible enough to own a gun. I don't think guns should be restricted to just the police and military, but I do believe that citizens need more education about guns and they need to be harder to get. Much like knives in the UK. It used to be the knife owning criminals were responsible - you either used a knife as a tool to inflict fear (with no intent on using it) or you used it to get a quick kill before running like hell. Today any punk with a funny haircut thinks it's cool to grab a knife, flash it arround then stupidly assault someone with it. No respect for the lives of others or wasting your life in prison anymore. Well said. The attitude of many thugs today shows no fear of punishment or consequences, and this is a problem. It is also a well-known fact that young people trained in the use and respect of guns do not accidently hurt themselves, only in homes where the guns are hidden and the children are not trained do accidents happen - therefore I agree with Nag, firearm use and handling should be taught in grammer schools as part of a core curiculum. That education whould lower the number of accidental shootings dramatically. Paradise, unfortunately, guns are just too easy to get for criminals in the US. That is a reality, and it won't just go away, so in order to counter that, the law-abiding citizen needs to have the right to own a gun. As for crimes of passion, I can only speak for myself. When I've had arguments the last thing I think of is going for my gun. It seems a real drastic way to make a point. I only take the safety off my gun for two reasons; the first reason is for target practice, the second reason is to kill someone, never, ever to threaten, intimidate, deter, scare, etc. Also, Paradise, there are people that kill just to kill - Jeffrey Dahmer, John Gacy, Son of Sam, etc. Also, with laws that state the use of a firearm means life without parole, the incentive to kill a victim to avoid a witness is fairly strong. Also, as a gay man I could name many, many victims of hate crimes that are dead because people just wanted to kill them (though a lot of these people are fired up by some fine, caring preachers). And, when someone comes into your house with a gun, how do you know all they want to do is rob you? What if they tell you, "yes, that's right, so just let me tie you up, and I'll finish the job and be gone." The next thing you know, maybe you are being raped, or tortured, or skinned alive. Sorry, someone comes into my house, I am not going to ask them what they are doing, I am going to assume the worst, therefore they do so at their own risk.



Paradise	Jun 28 2008, 12:02 PM Post #34
Resident bureaucrat Posts: 2,268 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: December 23, 2003	Nag Ehgoeg Jun 28 2008, 08:01 AM But you could also compare the murder rates in the US with the murder rates in Canada (where you can own guns) and decide that maybe it's not guns ****ing up America, but Americans. You can have a gun in Canada, but it is very restrictive and your gun must be registered. You must also have the proper permits, and I've heard that they are very difficult to get. You can only get guns for the purpose of hunting (shotguns, hunting rifles) and range shooting (handguns). You cannot buy automatic weapons legally. Of course, our only neighbour is the US, so 90% of all illegal weapons come from there. Even so, the crime rate here is much more lower here than in the US.



Tristan da Cunha	Jun 28 2008, 01:34 PM Post #35
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Interesting and controversial observation: 1.9 Canadians per 100,000 committed homicide in 2005. 3.5 White Americans per 100,000 committed homicide in 2005. 26.5 Black Americans per 100,000 committed homicide in 2005. 2.8 "Other" Americans per 100,000 committed homicide in 2005. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_orace.htm



Tristan da Cunha	Jun 28 2008, 01:47 PM Post #36
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Nag Ehgoeg Jun 28 2008, 08:01 AM But seriously folks... guns are a good thing. In responsible hands. The average US citizen is not responisible enough to own a gun. I don't think guns should be restricted to just the police and military, but I do believe that citizens need more education about guns and they need to be harder to get. I acquired my first handgun with no prior education, minimal prior experience, and all the tendencies of making a nuisance of myself in the neighborhood with loud discharges of gunpowder. :lol: Also, due to lax Ohio gun laws (some of the loosest in the country), the gun owner does not need a permit, no waiting period, no registration, etc. I just wish the gun laws here are as loose as in the Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan. (Well, I do try to be considerate of others , so I shoot in the basement, where the sound can be insulated a bit.) Edited by Tristan da Cunha, Jun 28 2008, 01:49 PM.



Union	Jun 28 2008, 03:22 PM Post #37
Pyrenees Republic Posts: 3,219 Group: Forum Mods Member #307 Joined: December 27, 2006	Quote: Are you aware of the amount of crimes that had the possibility of becoming violent that were deescalated because a concerned citizen had a concealed carry permit? The FBI has a report on this statistic. Such an event vastly outnumbers the number of criminal shootings in the US. I'd say the right to bear arms makes things a lot safer indeed. I'd like to see that statistic. Source?



flumes	Jun 28 2008, 03:55 PM Post #38
CLEVELAND ROCKS! Posts: 2,429 Group: Veterans Member #142 Joined: May 22, 2005	Tristan da Cunha Jun 28 2008, 01:34 PM 2.8 "Other" Americans per 100,000 committed homicide in 2005. Is that counting illegals living in America?



Comrade Queen	Jun 28 2008, 06:00 PM Post #39
Comrade Bitchqueen Posts: 4,159 Group: Forum Mods Member #83 Joined: October 4, 2004	Hispania Jun 28 2008, 03:22 PM Quote: Are you aware of the amount of crimes that had the possibility of becoming violent that were deescalated because a concerned citizen had a concealed carry permit? The FBI has a report on this statistic. Such an event vastly outnumbers the number of criminal shootings in the US. I'd say the right to bear arms makes things a lot safer indeed. I'd like to see that statistic. Source? I think it was one of the annual FBI "Crime in the United States" reports. I can't be sure. It's been a while since I read it. The number was something like 400 thousand deescalations versus 1.5 thousand criminal shootings.



Ignatius	Jul 3 2008, 06:59 PM Post #40
2nd Lieutenant Posts: 424 Group: Members Member #344 Joined: June 17, 2007	Paradise Jun 27 2008, 05:11 PM flumes Jun 27 2008, 03:09 PM Paradise Jun 27 2008, 02:03 PM lebowski2123 Jun 27 2008, 01:20 PM You European guys are right, guns can't and shouldn't be handled by the common American man. Leave that to the criminals, right? Not to criminals, to policemen and the military. Criminals owning guns will face another criminal offence. That is a joke, who cares about another charge after they have killed someone incapible of fighting back. Criminals killing for the sake of killing heh? That happens very rarely. Most of the time, criminals are simple robbers who will eventually get caught by the police. Basically, what US gun owners are asking is the right to kill robbers themselves, i.e., they do not want the police to arrest them. That's an insane mentality. If a robber was to come to my home with a gun to steal some of my stuff, I'd not oppose any resistance. It's not worth it to die over material possessions, even more when you're insured. In the US, if a robber was to come to a home with a gun to steal stuff, it would likely end up in a blood bath, i.e., the robber and/or homeowner would likely injure/kill themselves in the process. Great way of doing things... Note also that in a society where everyone can get a gun, it is also much more easier for a criminal to get a gun. That should be worrying... If some weird dude dressed in black spandex buttless chaps (cough cough* NH) came to my home and tried to butt-rape me in my bed.. I'm pretty sure I'd pull out the .38 I keep in my drawer and shoot the damned bastard in the face!



Tristan da Cunha	Jul 6 2008, 02:28 PM Post #41
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Ignatius Jul 3 2008, 06:59 PM If some weird dude dressed in black spandex buttless chaps (cough cough* NH) came to my home and tried to butt-rape me in my bed.. I'm pretty sure I'd pull out the .38 I keep in my drawer and shoot the damned bastard in the face! Posted Image



The CNNP	Jul 6 2008, 02:30 PM Post #42
Enforcer Posts: 1,857 Group: Members Member #198 Joined: November 10, 2005	Tristan da Cunha Jul 6 2008, 02:28 PM Ignatius Jul 3 2008, 06:59 PM If some weird dude dressed in black spandex buttless chaps (cough cough* NH) came to my home and tried to butt-rape me in my bed.. I'm pretty sure I'd pull out the .38 I keep in my drawer and shoot the damned bastard in the face! Posted Image Dio mio! I cannot believe you went there!! :huh: :o Edited by The CNNP, Jul 6 2008, 02:31 PM.



Tristan da Cunha	Jul 6 2008, 02:46 PM Post #43
Science and Industry Posts: 6,792 Group: Veterans Member #86 Joined: November 1, 2004	Oh, I could not resist.

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