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| Feudal RP | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 29 2008, 07:44 PM (1,029 Views) | |
| Rhadamanthus | Jan 29 2008, 09:38 PM Post #26 |
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Legitimist
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Well the Crusader Levant has the same frontier quality, with some differences. Regarding the second paragraph, that sounds wonderful. And yeah, some kind of mechanism for determining those things seems appropriate. |
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| Union | Jan 29 2008, 10:01 PM Post #27 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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Personally, I'd rather for a frontier where people squabble amongst themselves, rather than unite against a constant common threat, as we would find in the Crusder States, or Christian Spain. Good choices are Wallachia, or Holy Roman Empire (This one really lends itself to this type of RP). My bits. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 10:01 PM Post #28 |
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Science and Industry
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Hmm the thing that concerns be about the Levant is that we might have to deal with the issue of constant powerful Islamic attacks, which would complicate the RP (at least at the beginning of the game when not many people are participating). Possibly resulting in the complexities of simulating external NPC influences that might possibly dwarf the player characters' actions, if we decide to factor in the Islamic world. In Romania however it is more of a self contained "sand box" where the focus can be on player-driven and player-created interaction rather than a looming "deus ex machina". The Levant would be very doable with more people, but with less people, Romania seems like a better place to start out. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 10:10 PM Post #29 |
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Holy Roman Empire is also an interesting choice, however since it is already a highly developed area, there are already many wealthy kingdoms and duchies etc that could be very well played as a nationsim but doesn't really capture the feudal microcosm as much as a frontier setting like Transylvania. Perhaps this RP might even be designed to be inherently feudal; the scope of the game could be as expansive as the number of participants. If we have 8 people, then maybe we have a few counts and a few knights. If we have 15 people maybe our population could support maybe a duke or two. If we have 30 people then kingdoms could start to be established. If numbers decrease, the scope of the game contracts, God forbid. Basically, the basic feudal microcosm (approximately on a small county (not countRy) level) is never abandoned at any point of the game, for example there won't be a kingdom if there aren't enough people to support one. What do you think? |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jan 29 2008, 10:13 PM Post #30 |
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Legitimist
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Good point regarding Islam. The reason though why I preferred the Levant or Western Europe is that the usual feudal ranks don't work as well in Eastern Europe without the well-developed feudal system, so its harder for me to conceptualize. It could still work well, but I think then that we should try to adapt some more appropriate regional titles for flavor such as "Voivode." edit: Your last post sounds excellent. That should work well. I am onboard. |
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| Union | Jan 29 2008, 10:14 PM Post #31 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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My personal idea for a fuedal game: Rather than roleplaying as cities, or dukes, necessarily, each player is a noble family, and RPs as them. They try to gain as much influence as possible, by grabbing titles given down, or even marrying into the Royal Line. This gives people more than one character at a time, and the dynamics of being fuedal nobles. Maybe I misunderstood you, TC, and this is what you were trying tog et at? |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jan 29 2008, 10:31 PM Post #32 |
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Legitimist
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Regarding Transylvania, here is some real life background on its Medieval history and structure: Transylvania spent most of this period as a frontier of the Kingdom of Hungary. Eventually it became an independent principality during the period of the wars against the Ottomans, and later was incorporated into the Habsburg Empire. Following its incorporation into the Kingdom of Hungary, the following organization was created (quoted from Wikipedia): "The Noble Counties (Comitates) were ruled by feudal landlords. Here, the majority of population were Magyar and Vlach serfs. In other regions called "Seats", the free Székely and Saxon nation lived without feudal landlords and had the royal privilege to have local authority and self-government." The Noble Counties seem to be more of our interest. Additionally, the whole area was supervised by a Voivode who was appointed by the King of Hungary. It might serve our purposes better if the area has become estranged from any such sovereign. The nobility is supposed to have come from different races of the region, but mainly the Magyars. There was a Romanian/Vlach nobility for most of the period but eventually they were given the choice of convert to Catholicism or lose noble status, and for the most part the Romanian nobility either died out or assimilated into the mainstream Hungarian nobility. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 10:38 PM Post #33 |
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Yes I liked Transylvania as a setting, for its cultural diversity so there would be many options open. The medieval political life was dominated by immigrant foreigners (mostly Germans and Hungarians) from western Europe who settled there and imported many customs and sensibilities of the German-Roman Empire. IIRC the Transylvanian state in the post medieval era, Siebenburgen, was sort of a conglomeration of the old German-Transylvanian feudal landlords, in our game there could be a very plausible component of Wallachians and other non-Western aristocracy. So in terms of this RP's mechanism, people could easily choose to go the Eastern Orthodox/Byzantinist route for designing their characters. Hispania- what I was envisioning is something like the computer game Crusader Kings(don't know if you ever played it). Anyways, you are only in direct control of one "Main Character", his/her "Court" (issue of female inheritance would need to be discussed), and any land the Main Character might have. A court for our purposes can be considered any number of characters that serve your Main Character. People in your family/dynasty who happen to serve other Lords are not under your control, and they might even be your enemy, and they have to be dealt with somehow. The physical constraint of the game is the population and power as represented by your NS account; for our game purposes that might be considered the maximum power any Court can possess. So to exceed that power you'll have to gain vassals, etc. Of course, there should be some mechanism to increase your power by simply directly gaining more land, but for conceptualization purposes in this diuscussion, we'll consider the NS account to be a rough guideline. The NS account basically represents the absolute maximum power you can directly possess, due to factors such as your charisma (your ability to motivate the local nobles, local clergy, and local commoners to be loyal to you) and other abilities of your Court (such as your chancellor's competence). Of course, if your character has low abilities and your NS account is far greater than what he can handle, then there will need to be some mechanism to simulate that your power is decreased, and you can't command as many troops as the NS account indicates. But the NS account would represent the absolute maximum amount of power that your character can rule assuming he has perfect Statesmanship, though few characters would be born with perfect statesmanship; almost everyone is limited by some combination of irrational passion, limited intelligence, limited charisma, etc. To gain any more power beyond your power (which is limited by your character's personal attributes) you'll have to gain vassals. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jan 29 2008, 10:41 PM Post #34 |
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What are we looking at for time period? |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 10:43 PM Post #35 |
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Science and Industry
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Circa 1000 AD? |
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| Union | Jan 29 2008, 10:44 PM Post #36 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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I dunno, I'd personally rather have NS accounts determine the power overall of an entire family - and have people RP as the family over time. I've heard of CK, and that is what it is. Building a dynasty, making sure your family grows strong over time. I'll go with majority rule. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jan 29 2008, 10:48 PM Post #37 |
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Seems reasonable; that period is the genesis of both Hungary and Transylvania. The latter is ruled by an independent or semi-independent duke or prince who is kin to the King of Hungary (the first King, St. Stephen). This kinship tie does not stop the king from, a few years hence, conquering and annexing Transylvania. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 10:53 PM Post #38 |
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Hispania - the problem with playing as a dynasty is that family members don't often work together toward a single goal, and more often than not they are fighting. Same thing with CK - you actually only control one character at a time; you don't control a dynasty, and often members of your own dynasty will try to destroy you. The point of CK actually isn't to build a dynasty per se, but to ensure that you and your direct heirs have a strong empire to rule over. Your cousin, who isn't your direct heir, might backstab you because he wants your land. It's of course useful to have a strong dynasty because it gives you connections and possible inheritances, but the connections always fade over the generations, and dynastic squabbles often arise, as history shows. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jan 29 2008, 10:57 PM Post #39 |
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Well dynasty is part of it too: your direct heirs must be part of your dynasty or you lose. You must have a dynastic member to inherit your lands in CK or all the empire building in the world is useless. |
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| Union | Jan 29 2008, 10:57 PM Post #40 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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OK. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 11:03 PM Post #41 |
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Yes, in the feudal RP dynasty is important for inheritance; I'd say it would be kept track of for "bookkeeping purposes" but we could find other useful roles for it. In terms of direct non-godmod RP, one player could be limited to controlling one Main Character and his/her court. Speaking of "her", should female inheritances be allowed? I don't hold an opinion either way. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jan 29 2008, 11:11 PM Post #42 |
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Yes and no. Or to put it more differently, the issue should simply be ignored until it comes up during play. Males can inherit as long as they are there, but once a situation comes up with only daughters, it would be a good RP to sort out whether a daughter can inherit or if another male relative manages to take over. Sort things out organically. |
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| Wadj | Jan 29 2008, 11:15 PM Post #43 |
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The Very Model of a Modern Major General
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I'd be interested in doing something like this, though I would prefer some sort of Holy Roman Empire-like states (if not the actual HRE) to something dealing with Transylvania. Also, though we seemed to have settled on this by now, I think that we should RP using past technology, nothing later than, say, 1600. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 11:16 PM Post #44 |
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Excellent idea. Perhaps we can create our characters right now, at least the biography section, simply to keep the game in sights, while we plod through the dense rule making and procedural things. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 11:18 PM Post #45 |
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In an earlier post we discussed why playing as HRE states would not be compatible with the RP system. However, certainly we might consider all playing as characters and fiefdoms within an HRE state, for example if we are all playing as minor nobles and knights in Thuringia, or Bohemia. The entirety of the HRE might be too expansive for the RP with the number of people we have. |
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| Wadj | Jan 29 2008, 11:20 PM Post #46 |
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The Very Model of a Modern Major General
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Something like that would certainly be interesting. We could devise a mechanism that would allow us to be affected by the actions of the Emperor, but not have anyone actually play him. Some sort of a random Imperial Act generator. |
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| Union | Jan 29 2008, 11:38 PM Post #47 |
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Pyrenees Republic
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Outline of Timur Malkav Timur Malkav is the head of the Malkav family, a wealthy landowning family along the outskirts of Translyvania, of Kievan Slavic ethnicity. The family likes claim relation to noble Norse blood, through some ancient marriage between tribes. They have resided at their estate for generations. His father died a few years ago, and his mother lives on. His older brother died at early age, and his sister was married to a local Hungarian merchant. He has a younger brother. Timur Malkav was born in 978 A.D, and was married to Lucia Patromus, daughter of a wealthy Romanian merchant, at the age of 19. A year later, his son was born, though his young wife died during labor. Timur is an aggressive drunkard, with huge ambitions, a fiery temper, and plenty of cunning and cleverness, but lacking real intelligence. He rarely acts on impulse, and plans things out ahead of time, but has been known to make rash decisions while drinking. He cares deeply for his family, and cares for his mother in her old age, and is a deeply religious individual, whose belief in God guides him every day. He prefers simple furs to extravagent clothing, and enjoys hunting more than running his household, often leaving it in the care of his brother while he goes away hunting. He enjoys laughter, and has a noticable fatness. Timur has short black hair, and a beard, with piercing gray-blue eyes that lack any warmth, but seem to see straight through you into your soul. Posted Image Direct Family of Timur Malkav |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 11:42 PM Post #48 |
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Hmm, the level of RP , at least at the beginning of the game with only a few participants, probably shouldn't involve many external factors beyond occasionally paying taxes (to the Emperor or the King of Hungary). For now I am still voting with the Transylvania setting. But I will ponder the HRE settting and how that would happen. |
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| Tristan da Cunha | Jan 29 2008, 11:59 PM Post #49 |
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Sir Miklos of Eger Sir Miklos was the product of a rape; his Hungarian mother, a daughter of a mason, was taken by a drunk German mercenary in the town of Eger, Hungary. Taking the advice of her priest, the mason's daughter did not abort her baby. Miklos was quite strong and skilled in combat, and found employment as a personal bodyguard of the Hungarian King, who eventually rewarded him with a knighthood. Eventually the King sent Miklos to Transylvania to settle the land and help people it with a loyal and Catholic population that might eventually prove to be a source of taxes and conscripts. Miklos has just arrived in Transylvania, with a letter of recommendation signed by the King himself, and seeks to serve a lord. Miklos is neither exceptionally bright nor charismatic, but is a dutiful warrior. He comes with a wife and son; having buried the corpse of a stillborn child back home in Eger. However, by some gigantic fluke of nature his surviving child Anthony, age 14, has a brilliant intellect. It is on him that all of Miklos' hopes are pinned. |
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| Rhadamanthus | Jan 30 2008, 09:34 AM Post #50 |
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Radu the Grim Radu's father's father had been a shepherd chieften in the Transylvanian Alps before leading the mountain clans north into Southern Transylvania. There they settled down among the rural Vlach communities that had been established before them. During the lifetimes of Radu's father and grandfather, several of these communities and villages had banded together to form a small confederation, with Radu's forefathers recognized as leaders. With the breakdown of the First Bulgarian Empire and the wanderings of various nomadic tribes, Radu's realm has largely stuck together out of purposes of defense. But where his father and grandfather were leaders of makeshift arrangements driven by need, Radu has inherited a tradition of lordship and has developed a sense of entitlement, calling himself "Voivode." With the coming of the Magyars and others into the region, Radu will likely to earn respect in the manner his forefathers had. Quiet and rarely smiling, Radu is called "Grim" because he never laughs and always seems to have a solemn look on his face. He tends to observe his surroundings and other actions, and to listen carefully to all his advisors, before making decisions, rather than speaking a lot. He is young, in his early twenties, and of average height. He has a hardened warrior's form, dark hair and eyes, and a darker than average complexion. He is as yet unmarried. |
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11:51 AM Jul 13