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Feudal RP
Topic Started: Jan 29 2008, 07:44 PM (1,028 Views)
Tristan da Cunha
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The idea of implementing a feudal political system in NSWR has been discussed casually.

Perhaps feudalism can be put into practice, starting with this thread.

The idea is this:

1.) people who are interested in feudal RP can create (or use an existing) NS account to participate...

2.) and those nations that participate then can enter into feudal relationships with each other; rulers of weaker countries might pledge allegiance and military support to the ruler of a stronger country in return for protection by the resources of the stronger lord and his other vassals, etc.

Preferablly, the feudal RP would take place in one area of the map, so that all the countries are contiguous with each other, facilitating RP.

Military strength would be determined by NS account strength.

Preferably, there would be a ~1,000x or even 10,000x reduction in all national populations, to more accurately reflect the intimate terms that feudal societies operate on; e.g. instead of wars consisting of million-man armies of proletarian conscripts and politics often conducted by revolution and mass movements, feudal wars, diplomacy, and politics will be conducted by only a few key characters, mostly aristocrats and entrusted non-aristocrats.

The feudal RP would take place within the NSWR world. We could decide if we want to have the "feudal world" interact with the rest of the NSWR world. THere are foreseeable advantages and disadvantages either way.

Ideas, criticsisms, and suggestions welcome.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

I'd be interested once some details are hammered out, but the Western Romans' Kingdom is pretty well suited for this kind of RP.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
I don't think it'd make any sense for this thing to be compatible in NSWR world, unless, perhaps, it was a "prologue" RP.
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Toussaint
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I may be making a feudal Thai state, and I've read Drax is interested in a feudal east Asian state as well...
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Rhadamanthus
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Quaon
Jan 29 2008, 06:50 PM
I don't think it'd make any sense for this thing to be compatible in NSWR world, unless, perhaps, it was a "prologue" RP.

I think history is too flexible to do a truely proper prologue RP, but if we opened up a new world set in the Middle Ages and then played it on a sub-forum with such nations, that would be cool.

The only problem is that we seem to be setting up a lot of these sub-games lately (Old Earth, Nations of the Stars) and it may be a good idea to see how stable those are before creating a game outside of the main NSWR world. On the other hand, the best way to find a longterm stable one might be to try them all and see what works.
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Toussaint
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Back in its prime, Western Europe had Ancient Western Europe and Medieval Western Europe, which were fairly successful in their time. A "colonial-era" WE was being built to, but never got off the ground.

Its doable, but seeing as we've so many subforum games going on here, it may want to wait.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Quaon
Jan 29 2008, 07:50 PM
I don't think it'd make any sense for this thing to be compatible in NSWR world, unless, perhaps, it was a "prologue" RP.

IMO this feudal RP should be a modern tech RP. I'd be very happy to hear other people's opinions though.

Cerdone
 
I may be making a feudal Thai state, and I've read Drax is interested in a feudal east Asian state as well...


Personally, it would be my preference that the feudal RP system is based in Western Europe since I and most people here are more familiar with European feudalism and I am not sure if the setting in SE Asia would interesti me. And furthermore it would be best that all participants occupy strictly contiguous territory. Again that is just my hunch about it, the ideas should definitely keep flowing.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Romanus Diogenes
Jan 29 2008, 07:53 PM
The only problem is that we seem to be setting up a lot of these sub-games lately (Old Earth, Nations of the Stars) and it may be a good idea to see how stable those are before creating a game outside of the main NSWR world.

Yeah, that is the primary reason I could think of for conducting a feudal RP on the Modern Tech NSWR globe rather than start a new sub-forum.

As for OE, that's still not dead yet. There are massive plans for it. :D
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Rhadamanthus
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Tristan da Cunha
Jan 29 2008, 06:57 PM
Quaon
Jan 29 2008, 07:50 PM
I don't think it'd make any sense for this thing to be compatible in NSWR world, unless, perhaps, it was a "prologue" RP.

IMO this feudal RP should be a modern tech RP. I'd be very happy to hear other people's opinions though.

Cerdone
 
I may be making a feudal Thai state, and I've read Drax is interested in a feudal east Asian state as well...


Personally, it would be my preference that the feudal RP system is based in Western Europe since I and most people here are more familiar with European feudalism and I am not sure if the setting in SE Asia would interesti me. And furthermore it would be best that all participants occupy strictly contiguous territory. Again that is just my hunch about it, the ideas should definitely keep flowing.

Modern tech would be fine by me; however, I'm not sure to what degree feudal institutions really make sense in a modern tech setting. Consider manorialism and peasant society in general. Or to put it differently, I find it hard to fathom old school knighthood and television in the same society.

I would also prefer Western Europe (or Europe generally; I have a personal preference that any Europe based RP include North Africa and the Middle East) to Southeast Asia simply due to better knowledge and personal interest, but I'd be willing to play in a Southeast Asia or mixed game in order to get a better sense of it.
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flumes
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
Romanus Diogenes
Jan 29 2008, 09:01 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 29 2008, 06:57 PM
Quaon
Jan 29 2008, 07:50 PM
I don't think it'd make any sense for this thing to be compatible in NSWR world, unless, perhaps, it was a "prologue" RP.

IMO this feudal RP should be a modern tech RP. I'd be very happy to hear other people's opinions though.

Cerdone
 
I may be making a feudal Thai state, and I've read Drax is interested in a feudal east Asian state as well...


Personally, it would be my preference that the feudal RP system is based in Western Europe since I and most people here are more familiar with European feudalism and I am not sure if the setting in SE Asia would interesti me. And furthermore it would be best that all participants occupy strictly contiguous territory. Again that is just my hunch about it, the ideas should definitely keep flowing.

Modern tech would be fine by me; however, I'm not sure to what degree feudal institutions really make sense in a modern tech setting. Consider manorialism and peasant society in general. Or to put it differently, I find it hard to fathom old school knighthood and television in the same society.

I would also prefer Western Europe (or Europe generally; I have a personal preference that any Europe based RP include North Africa and the Middle East) to Southeast Asia simply due to better knowledge and personal interest, but I'd be willing to play in a Southeast Asia or mixed game in order to get a better sense of it.

Just think of Shrek... If you have ever seen it... :lol:
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
i do not think it should interact with the rest of NSWR, especially if you place it into an actual territory. What are you going to do, kick off all the Western European countries?
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Rhadamanthus
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flumes
Jan 29 2008, 07:07 PM
Romanus Diogenes
Jan 29 2008, 09:01 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 29 2008, 06:57 PM
Quaon
Jan 29 2008, 07:50 PM
I don't think it'd make any sense for this thing to be compatible in NSWR world, unless, perhaps, it was a "prologue" RP.

IMO this feudal RP should be a modern tech RP. I'd be very happy to hear other people's opinions though.

Cerdone
 
I may be making a feudal Thai state, and I've read Drax is interested in a feudal east Asian state as well...


Personally, it would be my preference that the feudal RP system is based in Western Europe since I and most people here are more familiar with European feudalism and I am not sure if the setting in SE Asia would interesti me. And furthermore it would be best that all participants occupy strictly contiguous territory. Again that is just my hunch about it, the ideas should definitely keep flowing.

Modern tech would be fine by me; however, I'm not sure to what degree feudal institutions really make sense in a modern tech setting. Consider manorialism and peasant society in general. Or to put it differently, I find it hard to fathom old school knighthood and television in the same society.

I would also prefer Western Europe (or Europe generally; I have a personal preference that any Europe based RP include North Africa and the Middle East) to Southeast Asia simply due to better knowledge and personal interest, but I'd be willing to play in a Southeast Asia or mixed game in order to get a better sense of it.

Just think of Shrek... If you have ever seen it... :lol:

Shrek was entertaining, but it was nothing I would ever want to RP.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Romanus Diogenes
Jan 29 2008, 08:01 PM
Tristan da Cunha
Jan 29 2008, 06:57 PM
Quaon
Jan 29 2008, 07:50 PM
I don't think it'd make any sense for this thing to be compatible in NSWR world, unless, perhaps, it was a "prologue" RP.

IMO this feudal RP should be a modern tech RP. I'd be very happy to hear other people's opinions though.

Cerdone
 
I may be making a feudal Thai state, and I've read Drax is interested in a feudal east Asian state as well...


Personally, it would be my preference that the feudal RP system is based in Western Europe since I and most people here are more familiar with European feudalism and I am not sure if the setting in SE Asia would interesti me. And furthermore it would be best that all participants occupy strictly contiguous territory. Again that is just my hunch about it, the ideas should definitely keep flowing.

Modern tech would be fine by me; however, I'm not sure to what degree feudal institutions really make sense in a modern tech setting. Consider manorialism and peasant society in general. Or to put it differently, I find it hard to fathom old school knighthood and television in the same society.

That is an excellent point.

A possible resolution is that we utilize a medieval RP setting, while using the NSWR map, since it the official NSWR map is a more permanent institution to which we can anchor the RP on, rather than a new map altogether.

Another resolution is that we drastically reduce population count (for example 50,000x reduction in the NS account's stated population) so that many prerequisites of the mechanized society are eliminated (large urban proletariat for the factories, etc). People return to rural life, and low population concentration necessitate feudal arrangement because of security issues, etc. Finally, the TV is eliminated altogether due to extremely interesting and reactionary shared cultural values, basically everyone simply doesn't watch TV :D
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Tristan da Cunha
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Hispania
Jan 29 2008, 08:09 PM
i do not think it should interact with the rest of NSWR, especially if you place it into an actual territory. What are you going to do, kick off all the Western European countries?

That is definitely a good point to consider.
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Rhadamanthus
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Tristan da Cunha
Jan 29 2008, 07:10 PM
Romanus Diogenes
Jan 29 2008, 08:01 PM

Modern tech would be fine by me; however, I'm not sure to what degree feudal institutions really make sense in a modern tech setting.  Consider manorialism and peasant society in general.  Or to put it differently, I find it hard to fathom old school knighthood and television in the same society.

That is an excellent point.

A possible resolution is that we utilize a medieval RP setting, while using the NSWR map, since it the official NSWR map is a more permanent institution to which we can anchor the RP on, rather than a new map altogether.

Another resolution is that we drastically reduce population count (for example 50,000x reduction in the NS account's stated population) so that many prerequisites of the mechanized society are eliminated (large urban proletariat for the factories, etc). People return to rural life, and low population concentration necessitate feudal arrangement because of security issues, etc. Finally, the TV is eliminated altogether due to extremely interesting and reactionary shared cultural values, basically everyone simply doesn't watch TV :D


I actually see little point to standing on the NSWR main map if we are not going to interact with most of the nations on it. That would create a problem for the other nations since a portion of the NSWR world would essentially be a vacuum, destroying our main feature (a fully interconnected world). I think a new map might actually be better for that reason.

I agree with the smaller populations compared to NS but I'm not sure that even those kind of changes would create a consistent world feel. I mean, we can introduce fuedal elements into a modern world, but it will still feel more modern than feudal. For example, look at the vast differences in style of warfare that come out of the introduction of firearms. Ambiguity can limit this problem, but it isn't a full solution.

Another such issue would be communications. Modern communications (even Early Modern) help to promote national (and even global nowadays) consciousness over local loyalties. This is certainly antithetical to a feudal feel.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Good points. THe main reason I proposed Modern Tech is for the game to take place on the NSWR map since I felt the NSWR map would better sustain the RP. Using a new map would solve the Tech issue though.
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Rhadamanthus
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Tristan da Cunha
Jan 29 2008, 07:23 PM
Good points. THe main reason I proposed Modern Tech is for the game to take place on the NSWR map since I felt the NSWR map would better sustain the RP. Using a new map would solve the Tech issue though.

Understandable. And for what its worth, we generally did a decent job creating a feudal feel even in NSWR in RPs such as Tenth Crusade/WOSR. But the tension was there even then. There is definitely the problem that a new map/game would be less easily sustainable, but on balance I favor it.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Ok, I favor the new map/medieval tech then, since the odd vacuum that would be created on the NSWR map would not be acceptable.

Another idea:

Since we probably won't have that many people to begin with, perhaps our countries 'leaders should start out with low ranking titles (Count, Knight [with a lot of land], etc). Then as things pick up and people accrue vassals they can increase in prestige. NPCs perhaps can get involved.
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Rhadamanthus
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That would probably be a good idea. I think that low ranks are often more interesting than the high ranks, and I like getting "closer to the ground," so to speak.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Yes. Where should this RP take place? I think it should start out in a very limited geographic range. Specifically, entirely within old Romania where there is a nice variety of cultures, including errant knights from France and Germany, the presence of both Latin and Greek Christianity, etc. As more people join the RP the scope of the game could expand.
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Rhadamanthus
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Are you thinking real world map with real world entities (at least for kingdoms and major vassals; more freedom could exist for lower levels) or would the entities be fictional? And would you mind a quick map of the area you have in mind?
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Tristan da Cunha
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Sorry for the ambiguities; I was putting random ideas down without thinking lol. This is what I was referring to, Transylvania basically.

http://ro.iio.org.uk/transylvania/Transylvania-map.jpg

I think it would be best if major kingdoms are at least somewhat accurate, for example "the King of France does live in Paris". When I say "somewhat accurate" that is debateable and details still need to be worked out. Major cultures could also present, for example French, English, German, Italian etc, since that would serve as a nice general framework and "mindset" that everyone would be familiar with. I don't have an opinion either way about whether entirely fictional cultures should exist. On the local level it would definitely make sense to have a lot of freedom for the design of individual characters and fiefdoms.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
I say we pick a single Kingdom (England, France, Holy Roman Empire), and RP as fuedal lords within it, vying for power and prestige from a central leader (the king). Players would RP as Noble Families, and their lands, and it could essentially be an RP about eventually trying to gain the kingship. Marriages could become political intrigue dramas, and small wars could be used to expand land power.
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Rhadamanthus
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TC: I agree that we should generally have the basic outlines of the kingdoms, cultures and whatnot. The lower we go, the more freedom we could have.

Hispania's idea strikes me as a good suggestion; we could discuss it and compare it to alternate models.

Transylvania seems like a decent choice. Some other suggestions I'd like to make are Italy or the Crusader Levant.
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Tristan da Cunha
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The kingdoms are good suggestions, though personally I like the Romania (Transylvania) setting because initially it is a more "frontier" type of place where a great power center hasn't yet established itself, and much of the population are petty knights or even commoners who are attempting to carve out their niche in the landscape, and don't have a king to depend on, or a specific crown to aspire to. THe players' characters are then, to a greater degree, compelled to depend on each other rather than a royal patronage. That could facilitate RP at least in the beginning when there aren't many players, and hopefully if things pick up then a large, established kingdom could be more easily played out.

****

On a more general note, I think the game should be about writing a sprawling RP about a feudal society, and the fortunes of dynasties. Basically, people try to become as powerful as they can, but with what they receive in life, whether their son and heir is an intelligent man with great martial prowess, or an imbecile with an ugly and crippling physical deformity. Which means there should be some mechanism that ensures that players occasionally must play as characters who are insane and irrational, for example.
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