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Nations of the Stars; Just an Idea
Topic Started: Jan 16 2008, 06:39 PM (1,053 Views)
Eleytheria-Duo
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Please read before voting! Thank you.

I know we've all had plenty of examples of forums set in an extreme futuristic setting, or even just a near-futuristic setting that tends to grow old. As you guys know by now, if motivated by something I like making visual representations that add "eye candy" to something in order to make it more interesting. Sometimes its a hit, other times its a miss. When combined with other things, I think I may just be able to score another hit.

Future settings may be old, and probably well spent by now, but there are plenty of ways to make them more entertaining and explore avenues that few have thought of doing. While reviewing my observation log book yesterday of all the celestial objects I've observed with my telescope in the past, as well as charting out some viewing times for a few objects I'd like to get a fix on in a few nights, I thought of trying something with our forums' "alternate universe" thread, after all, that's what its here for, right? To explore avenues that don't directly relate to our primary NS game.

Since I am in the extreme preliminary stages of this, I am not entirely sure what I should exactly do, I'll start by asking for ideas on how this should work and opinions on what people think of what little I have so far. To start off with the project, I cracked out my Planetarium software (Celestia for those non-geeks out there) and created a totally new virtual solar system, complete with star, orbiting planets, moons, and an exact location in a digital, computerized version of the Milky way Galaxy. I also made some temporary tweaks with the program to what we know as our own Solar system to use as a preamble to the story.

Anyway, now that you have the general feel in which direction this is going, I'll conclude my little introductory with the beginning of the story;

"The year is 3,102,157,438 CE; A time of monumental change for not just humanity, but the entire Milky way galaxy. Andromeda and the Milky way are scheduled to collide within the next few million years, so close are the two galaxies that one could look up at the night sky, and point out individual bright stars and prominent dust lanes in Andromeda, the spiral arms of the galaxy span nearly the entire sky, faint be they are, but there nonetheless. It is unlikely the Solar system will be destroyed in this event, but colliding galaxies is not the only thing the Ancient human civilization must worry about...

Earth's sun, the very thing that has allowed life to flourish and prosper is now its greatest enemy, Sol's hydrogen is rapidly being exhausted and in the process its fusion rate has increased to maintain this rate, burning energy even faster. Its outer shell is beginning to slowly expand. Already the Humans have abandoned Earth for the nearest safe refuge--Mars. With Earth's oceans boiled away, leaving it as a desolate ball of dust that Mars once was, the Solar system has officially been labeled a dying planetary system.

However, putting aside the deteriorating status back at Sol, humans have, at this point, managed to utilize interstellar travel between the stars, and have colonized other worlds in the Orion arm. Despite being the only intelligent life in the known Universe, and having three billion years to master speed of light travel, it has eluded Scientists. Some wonder if it is even possible at all. Whatever side you choose to believe, it is still possible to traverse the star systems at a fair pace. The richest cluster of habitable star systems in the Orion arm have served humanity well. These stars formed from the tidal forces from the two merging galaxies, resulting in star bursts. Over the millennia, Humanity has exploited the changes to their benefit.

As time goes on, and the Nations of the Stars as well as the Stars themselves evolve, who truly knows what lies in wait for the Ancient civilization of Man?"

You read that one part correctly; No faster than light travel, hell you can't even reach light speed. Despite the fact you can come somewhat *close* to the speed, it is a far cry from being in another solar system within a few years or less. Wars waged between planets could take decades, even centuries. On the other hand, some planets may have multiple nations on them, making battles more familiar to us. Anyway, forgive me for the sucky intro, its a work in progress. Regardless, here's what I've drawn up so far in terms of graphical work and planetary systems:

(Click Links to view Images)

System of Ancient Humanity; Home of Earth
Sol System

Newer system colonized by man
Baltas System

Naked eye view of the Andromeda galaxy from Mars
Andromeda Skyline

Any ideas?
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Not to be nitpicky or anything, but wouldn't the earth's continents be a little different after 3 billion some odd years?
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Eleytheria-Duo
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Esternarx
Jan 16 2008, 05:25 PM
Not to be nitpicky or anything, but wouldn't the earth's continents be a little different after 3 billion some odd years?

Your completely right, the only reason I left them like that was so people could actually identify it as Earth. As I make progress on this, I will eventually change the planets texture so it will more accurately portray a continental drift scenario.

As I said, this is all preliminary.
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Austro-Bayern
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Prime Minister Adolf Galland
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Two nitpicks:

1) Terraforming Mars doesn't really work too well; models have shown that, because of the planet's low tectonic activity and a variety of other factors, it cannot maintain a stable atmospheric pressure. If you melted all of Mars' ice, it would cover the entire planet in a one-foot-deep ocean--but would remarkably quickly start evaporating (boiling, really) into almost nothing.
2) While I appreciate the realism of not having faster-than-light travel, it would simply make this whole idea unfeasible. At the very least, not being able to communicate between systems at faster-than-light speeds means that it's going to take me over four years just to send a nasty note to the Prime Minister of Alpha Centuri--let alone have a conversation with him. Diplomacy, trade, war--all will require some sort of faster-than-light travel. I vote using some sort of wormhole/teleportation technology.

It's intriguing though :)
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
I agree with A-B on his second point. The wormhole/teleportation idea is a good idea.

However, on A-B's first point: I think we can safely assume that a civilization with teleportation technology is far and away advanced enough to easily terraform Mars. It's easy to imagine such an advanced civilization artificially increasing Mars' atmospheric pressure by simply transporting vast quantities of water and gases to the red planet from another planet or moon.

I would be more interested in this RP if it was set in the near future rather than the extreme far future. It is asserted in the first post that near-future RPs 'get old.' However, that won't ever happen if the RP becomes a self-sustaining game with its own history and traditions, which is really what makes an RP long-lived and fun. NSWR, for example, is quite ancient by internet standards, and has a simple, well-worn premise, yet the entire alternate-world established and accumulated here is so engrossing that NSWR probably will never get old (at least for me, that is).

I know the scheduled collission of galaxies and expansion of the sun 3 billion years from now seem to be important to the premise of the game, but novelties will inevitably get old, and the only thing that can sustain an RP beyond the initial burst of enthusiasm and frenetic writing/drawing/mapmaking/etc is if everyone in the game creates an engrossing alternate-universe that draws people in for good. That said, 3 billion years is troublesome because too many things could happen in 3 billion years, and therefore gameplay elements could get arbitrary. In 3 billion years the dinosaurs could re-evolve and go extinct many times over. With 3 billion years worth of technology things can get extremely arbitrary, for example it's probably plausible to play as a genetically-engineered race of dinosaurs.
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Eleytheria-Duo
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Austro-Bayern
Jan 16 2008, 06:56 PM
Two nitpicks:

1) Terraforming Mars doesn't really work too well; models have shown that, because of the planet's low tectonic activity and a variety of other factors, it cannot maintain a stable atmospheric pressure. If you melted all of Mars' ice, it would cover the entire planet in a one-foot-deep ocean--but would remarkably quickly start evaporating (boiling, really) into almost nothing.
2) While I appreciate the realism of not having faster-than-light travel, it would simply make this whole idea unfeasible. At the very least, not being able to communicate between systems at faster-than-light speeds means that it's going to take me over four years just to send a nasty note to the Prime Minister of Alpha Centuri--let alone have a conversation with him. Diplomacy, trade, war--all will require some sort of faster-than-light travel. I vote using some sort of wormhole/teleportation technology.

It's intriguing though :)

Problem A.
That may be a good point, but we're talking about 3 billion years in the future. Working with magnetosphere's would be much easier with the advanced technology available. Furthermore, you could introduce gases to the planet as explained by NASA; Using small rocky bodies, such as Asteroids, to be vaporized, thus contributing, to the gases trapped in the gravity of the planet.

Since solar wind does very little damage to the Martian atmosphere in any human lifetime, it is possible to maintain a *reasonably* stable atmospheric level. The more gases trapped in the atmosphere, the greater the pressure on the surface. Greenhouse gases could help immensely by doing exactly what you said would happen-- Melting the ice and evaporating it, along with the other elements, in the ice and result in more rapid chemical activity.

Ultimately, your concerns can be laid to rest considering we are dealing with a time line where all of this can be done quickly, and on a much larger scale than we can in the present. Terraforming is impossible with our technological means, but not impossible altogether. Even for Mars.

Problem B.
Time doesn't matter, its irrelevant in the game, just like it is in the main NSWR forums that you play in every day. On our forums, time is fluid, the same will be true here.

Thus, no "true" time, no problem. In wars, players can come to an agreement, otherwise, go at your own pace.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Recent scientific theory (as of last week), which matches a theory I have had for 20 years, states that plate techtonics are REQUIRED for the development and sustainability of life, and that Earth is just at the minimum threshold of the size planet that can sustain techtonics. Venus, just a smige smaller than earth could not. Also, assuming there was enough heat from the sun to boil off the oceans, one must assume at some point, there might have been less heat to cause techtonics on earth to cease, therefore freezing the continents in place.

Now, recent theory says that other iron-cored planets up to half the size of Jupiter might easily have good plate techtonics, and easily support life. The size of the planet wouldn't matter as much as the techtonics. Mars could never support and sustain life because it is too damn small. Also, the living area from a sol-like star could span anywhere from the orbit of Venus out to half-way between the Astroid belt and Jupiter. That is a very broad band that could easily support 4 to 8 iron-cored planets, and even some very large iron-cored planets with orbiting moons large enough to have techtonics themselves, so if man-kind was looking for a solar system well-suited to sustain life and terreforming, we would look for one with multiple iron-cored planets with plate techtonics, the more the merrier!! With the billions of systems in our own Milky Way, and, in your scenario, the approaching Andromeda Galaxy, it would be quite possible, and actually quite likely, to find several systems with multiple suitable planets, so why not get creative, and have a binary star system with a sol like star and an orbiting dwarf, and 4 suitable planets, each supporting an earth colony, and maybe a moon or two supporting a colony as well?? I mean, if you are going to get imaginative, let's go hog-wild!
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

New Harumf
Jan 17 2008, 10:53 AM
That is a very broad band that could easily support 4 to 8 iron-cored planets, and even some very large iron-cored planets with orbiting moons large enough to have techtonics themselves, so if man-kind was looking for a solar system well-suited to sustain life and terreforming, we would look for one with multiple iron-cored planets with plate techtonics, the more the merrier!!  With the billions of systems in our own Milky Way, and, in your scenario, the approaching Andromeda Galaxy, it would be quite possible, and actually quite likely, to find several systems with multiple suitable planets, so why not get creative, and have a binary star system with a sol like star and an orbiting dwarf, and 4 suitable planets, each supporting an earth colony, and maybe a moon or two supporting a colony as well??  I mean, if you are going to get imaginative, let's go hog-wild!

With no faster than light travel, this is the senario I prefere. A heavily colonised solar system - preferably with all contact lost with Earth and no contact or knowledge of any other human settlements.

Which opens up a cool doorway of making contact with other humans from far, far away - but means the bulk of the RPing goes on with planets that are days apart - not decades.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
That would be better, methinks. A heavily colonized solar system (or two or three or four, like continents), rather than galaxy. This would allow for better travel and communication, inter-solar and intra-solar warfare...
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Noriega
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I support NH's idea.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

So what kind of nation are people interested in playing?
What kind of technology (this one aimed mostly at ED) are we thinking of using?

Personally, I'd just like to take the IDP to a new location. Maybe a dusty, only partly terraformed moon - with life in great domes on the dustbowl rather than on lush and fertile ground of the planet below. Create a real contrast that shows off the artificiality and unnaturalness of my nation. Just a thought.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
I'd like to play a far future Aurum Corporation, personally. :D

Mining the astaroid belt, etc.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
I'd play as a society of Chinese people who have attempted to create an idealized Confucian 'harmonious society' on some distant planet or moon. The first colonists and founders of their society purposely chose an isolated location, reflecting their fear that outside influences would disrupt the social harmony they are striving for.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
I would like to play a society living on an over-sized planet in domes, with very lush plants and a (supposedly) poisonous atmosphere outside as the result of a past war between classes. Government is totalitarian, but keeps its people happy through drugs, sex and other "diversions". Domed cities are interconnected by sub-surface rails. There is no war, but there is terrorism still as a result of the class wars.

There is a defense force for the planet that live in seperate communities.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
Kasnyian Star Empire! :P

No, but seriously, I would like to play a secret organization that has its own space forces and land armies and whatever else, and fight me a inter-multiversal war against pure evil. ^_^
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lebowski2123
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Resident?
Will there be space pirates :gnarkgnark: ?
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Holy Catholic Imperium
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Turd Burgalur
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The Holy Catholic Galatic Empire!
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Assassin
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Field Marshal
lebowski2123
Jan 18 2008, 03:00 PM
Will there be space pirates :gnarkgnark: ?

You stole my idea... <_<
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Quote:
 

I would like to play a society living on an over-sized planet in domes, with very lush plants and a (supposedly) poisonous atmosphere outside as the result of a past war between classes. Government is totalitarian, but keeps its people happy through drugs, sex and other "diversions". Domed cities are interconnected by sub-surface rails. There is no war, but there is terrorism still as a result of the class wars.
Adolphus Huxley?

I'd like to play some kind of predominantly Russian society, perhaps founded by the RF in days of old.
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Menhad
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ET2(IDW)
I would want to be my Menhadien nation much like in our other space rp(that failed)
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Um...

As far as I can tell, this RP takes place using real world history, not our history...
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Assassin
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In that case, no thanks.
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Eleytheria-Duo
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Nag Ehgoeg
 
What kind of technology (this one aimed mostly at ED) are we thinking of using?


That's a great question, seeing as how its taking place three billion years in the future. I'd like to come up with some logical explanation that would result in a long term technological stagnation that held humanity back from making super duper warpers and anti-matter DEW's that can destroy entire star systems at the blink of an eye, if you know what I mean.

I am open to suggestion regarding this, but seeing as how space travel is still a bitch, technology should be held back to a pretty large degree so you can't just drop demolecularizer bombs on people's countries and eviscerate entire nations in a split second.

Nag Ehgoeg
 
Personally, I'd just like to take the IDP to a new location. Maybe a dusty, only partly terraformed moon - with life in great domes on the dustbowl rather than on lush and fertile ground of the planet below. Create a real contrast that shows off the artificiality and unnaturalness of my nation. Just a thought.


You'll get your wish, already there are 5 solar systems I've completed with a myriad of planets, moons and environments, including Baltas, the system I've already shown you, as well as a star system known as "Legion," which gets its name for being a quadruple system. A G class star and three M dwarfs consist of the legion system.

The Baltas (Bahl-tahs) system is an F class star with a few planets orbiting around it, including one inhabitable planet larger than Earth, it has three moons. There are a helluva lot of other stars with names in the "local" neighborhood I am designing, all named, as well as many others that are unnamed and completely undefined, left up to you, the players, to decide (within reasonable bounds) what is there and what to name it.

lebowski2123
 
Will there be space pirates :gnarkgnark:  ?


Plausible. Though they'd certainly be renegades. Since travel between star systems could take anywhere from as little as 2 or as long as 5000 years, they'd be truly blessed and powerful to have a home "planet" or "moon." Government-supported piracy, on the other hand, is always a very real probability.

Quaon
 
Um...

As far as I can tell, this RP takes place using real world history, not our history...


Our history can bleed over into this scenario easily. If AA wants to create an Assassin Star Empire with direct references and links to the Assassins back on the forums' Earth, then let him.

Same goes with anyone.

Finally, I'd like to say thank you for your interest. Since this is a monumental project in regards to the solar systems I need to generate via Celestia, this could take me some time.

Also, I won't be giving stars unique textures anymore unless the said star plays an important role (i.e. Sol, Arancione, Dragao, Aquila, Baltas, etc. etc.)

Here's a few new screen shots of the Solar Systems I've been working on just to keep your interest perked up;

Auglu Darzs and its largest moon

Auglu Darzs closeup; Only naturally habitable planet in the Baltas System

A yet-to-be-named ringed "Super Jupiter" in the Legion System

A lonely Red Dwarf wandering in its dying companions nebula

I am hoping to create the feeling that this is an extremely vast and immersing universe to play in, and indeed, I will allow you to explore new star systems. Since time will be generally irrelevant, sticking to our forums traditions, this can happen in RL weeks rather than years.

I am also working on a 2D map of the "Local Area" of solar systems, which is currently still in the works.

Just so you don't get scared at how big this will be, most of the action will probably be centered around Baltas and Legion. Baltas being where I intend to kick off the storyline. I am working on a map for the planet as we speak, and you can start plopping down your nations for this Solar system.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Oh, then I'll be playing some sort of Quaonion colony, and perhaps a Durick Vetan thing and a Chiron one. I've already established Quaon has a space program.
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Austro-Bayern
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Prime Minister Adolf Galland
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I know I may be sounding kinda overbearing on the Warhammer 40k stuff, but you could look at that for some tips, particularly in technology.

Its not unusual (in WH40K) for giant space-going battleships to have heavy laser cannons... that are targeted by men pulling on chains. Or for tanks to be armed with enormous plasma cannons but are steam-powered.

To make a (very) long story short, humanity used to be super-advanced and invent all sorts of technology, but due to a series of calamities (disrupted space travel, pan-galactic civil war) man's civilization nearly fell apart and still hasn't put itself back together. Technology by the year 40,000 consists of priests who go find "ancient" technologies and try and put them together. Actual research is unheard of to the point of being heresy, and once a precious technology that isn't understood is lost, its gone forever.


I think we can take some sort of inspiration from this. Maybe we have advanced wormhole-based warping technologies--but spaceships are otherwise still powered by chemical rockets. People can live to be centuries old--but still use guns (as opposed to lasers, railguns, etc.) to shoot at each other. Or maybe one "nation-planet" has tanks armed with giant beams of death that destroy everything in their path... except that the "tanks" are "propelled" by teams of space horses.

The point is, if we go the eclectic route we could see a lot of creativity.
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