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Do you like the CP system?
Topic Started: Apr 5 2007, 10:53 AM (1,675 Views)
Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Norightsia
Apr 9 2007, 06:05 PM
Hey, can you explain just which kind of vehicles are counted within your set number? I know that tanks, artillery, and mobile AA are. But I don't know what an "ATAP LRV" is. Is that like an IFV? Do I need to represent IFVs with my number (1200 in my case)?

Bear in mind, this is a guide. Do whatever you think isn't godmoding. This is a guide.

IFVs, in my book, are simply APCs. And just like under the CP system are treated as "infantry add ons" rather than "unique vehicles". So if you want to mount your infantry in IFVs then you get half as many as you usually would, but don't have to pay for the IFV out of the vehicle allowance.

That said, the "vehicle number" is meant to encompass all "stand alone" vehicles - that is to say, anything that's primary role isn't troop transport.

This covers everything from LRVs to MBTs. The number is assuming an average ratio of "light" to "heavy" vehicles. (So take fewer heavy vehicles than usual, and you can take a lot more light vehicles.)

[Edit]

Also... I specifically stated that the ATAP LRV was equivilent to a Fennek. There's no excuses for not understanding what my vehicles are damn it! Google/Wiki is your friend!
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 9 2007, 06:17 PM
Norightsia
Apr 9 2007, 06:05 PM
Hey, can you explain just which kind of vehicles are counted within your set number? I know that tanks, artillery, and mobile AA are. But I don't know what an "ATAP LRV" is. Is that like an IFV? Do I need to represent IFVs with my number (1200 in my case)?

Bear in mind, this is a guide. Do whatever you think isn't godmoding. This is a guide.

IFVs, in my book, are simply APCs. And just like under the CP system are treated as "infantry add ons" rather than "unique vehicles". So if you want to mount your infantry in IFVs then you get half as many as you usually would, but don't have to pay for the IFV out of the vehicle allowance.

That said, the "vehicle number" is meant to encompass all "stand alone" vehicles - that is to say, anything that's primary role isn't troop transport.

This covers everything from LRVs to MBTs. The number is assuming an average ratio of "light" to "heavy" vehicles. (So take fewer heavy vehicles than usual, and you can take a lot more light vehicles.)

[Edit]

Also... I specifically stated that the ATAP LRV was equivilent to a Fennek. There's no excuses for not understanding what my vehicles are damn it! Google/Wiki is your friend!

Search Google? But I am le tired!
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
For Air Force, it says that nations with Green/High get more planes. Just how many more?
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Norightsia
Apr 9 2007, 07:27 PM
For Air Force, it says that nations with Green/High get more planes. Just how many more?

Take a look at the other numbers. See a trend? Good. Because it's a guide.

If you REALLY want numbers, 50% more than average for having either green or high. 100% more than average if you have both.
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Noriega
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Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 9 2007, 07:34 PM
Norightsia
Apr 9 2007, 07:27 PM
For Air Force, it says that nations with Green/High get more planes. Just how many more?

Take a look at the other numbers. See a trend? Good. Because it's a guide.

If you REALLY want numbers, 50% more than average for having either green or high. 100% more than average if you have both.

Wow...thanks. B)
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 9 2007, 05:12 PM
Norightsia
Apr 9 2007, 04:52 PM
I have Green Economy and High Spending= 0.3% of my population can be in the military.

I have a population of 4430000000: 4430000000*.003=13 290 000

What does the number 13 290 000 represent? Is that just foot soldiers?

Infantry. So... yes.

OK, so I'll do Velorya.

Population: Effectively 5 Billion

Army

Infantry: 6 million soldiers ( .0012% of my population)
Special Forces: 500 thousand soldiers (.0001% of my population)
No Militia

Therefore, my soldiers would be twice as good as normal, and my special ops would be 6 times as good as normal.

Armoured

800 "T-105 Caesar" Main Battle Tanks (equiv. M1 Abrams)
300 Self-Propelled Artillery Units "SPAU-9 Jaguar" (equiv. M109A6 Paladin)
400 Mobile Anti-Aircraft Systems "MAAS-87 Mongoose" (equiv. ADATS MMEV)
A number of Infantry Fighting Vehicles and Armoured Personnel Carriers

Navy

24 "Cambodia-class" Aircraft Carriers (equiv. CVN78 Ford-class)
6 "Emperor-class" Assault Ships (equiv. BB-67 Montana-class)
288 "Actaeon-class" Destroyers (equiv. DD(X)/DDG-1000 Zumwalt-class)
192 "Mekong-class" Attack/Missile Submarines (equiv. SSN-774 Virginia-class)
144 "Florentius-class" Frigates (equiv. FFG-7 Perry-class)
96 "Sailfish-class" Mine Hunters (equiv. Alta-class)
192 "Phaeton-class" Battlecruisers (equiv. CG(X) Ticonderoga-class)
A Number of Patrol Craft, including River Boats and Scout Craft

Air Force

1500 "F-12 Hawk" Air Superiority Fighters (equiv. F-22 Raptor)
1500 "F-35 Raptor" VTOL Fighters (equiv. F-35 Lighting II)
40 "F-144 Genesis" Superfighters (equiv. to ten F-22s each)
120 "B-52 Leviathan" Heavy Strategic Bombers (equiv. B-52 Stratofortress)
200 "B-24 Knight" Stealth Bombers (equiv. B-2 Spirit)
100 "C-65 Pioneer" Transport/Cargo Planes (equiv. C-130 Hercules)
40 "C-1000 Mammoth" Amphibious Supertransports (see Spruce Goose)
400 "S-43 Peregrine" Close Air Support Planes (equiv. A-10 Thunderbolt II)
80 "S-130 Spectre" Gunships (equiv. AC-130 Spooky)
1600 "H-55 Mongol" Attack Helicopters (equiv. RAH-66 Comanche)
A number of Support Planes and Helicopters
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Remind me not to piss off Velorya.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 05:48 AM
Remind me not to piss off Velorya.

B)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I suffer the greatest loss of power due to the changing of systems on the entire forum.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 02:52 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 05:48 AM
Remind me not to piss off Velorya.

B)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I suffer the greatest loss of power due to the changing of systems on the entire forum.

Why is that?
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 10 2007, 02:05 PM
Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 02:52 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 05:48 AM
Remind me not to piss off Velorya.

B)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I suffer the greatest loss of power due to the changing of systems on the entire forum.

Why is that?

Because of my low population. While nations like Romania had 50% more population than I, I had more CPs. Without CPs, and more emphasis on population, I am at a significant disadvantage. Although it may not be as bad as I surmise.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 03:06 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 10 2007, 02:05 PM
Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 02:52 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 05:48 AM
Remind me not to piss off Velorya.

B)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I suffer the greatest loss of power due to the changing of systems on the entire forum.

Why is that?

Because of my low population. While nations like Romania had 50% more population than I, I had more CPs. Without CPs, and more emphasis on population, I am at a significant disadvantage. Although it may not be as bad as I surmise.

Ah ok, I haven't really compared how I stand the two systems, because well, I've never actually done a full military, believe it or not. The closest was a rough sketch when the CP system first started...
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 10 2007, 02:08 PM
Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 03:06 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 10 2007, 02:05 PM
Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 02:52 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 05:48 AM
Remind me not to piss off Velorya.

B)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I suffer the greatest loss of power due to the changing of systems on the entire forum.

Why is that?

Because of my low population. While nations like Romania had 50% more population than I, I had more CPs. Without CPs, and more emphasis on population, I am at a significant disadvantage. Although it may not be as bad as I surmise.

Ah ok, I haven't really compared how I stand the two systems, because well, I've never actually done a full military, believe it or not. The closest was a rough sketch when the CP system first started...

:lol:

Wel, Al Araam pointed out that he's stronger than I am now, by a lot. :(
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Well, in my case, I think of one weakness which is that I don't have high defense (40+) spending, but have only recently achieved normal defense (20+) spending. Of course, this is also the reason why my CP were less than yours, so this weakness is the same for me in both systems.
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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 09:52 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 05:48 AM
Remind me not to piss off Velorya.

B)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I suffer the greatest loss of power due to the changing of systems on the entire forum.

Actually, I think I suffer the greatest loss of power under the new system. I was up to something like 615 CPs, which was at the time almost twice Velaroya's posted CP total. That's why I said that Al Araam was much more powerful than Velorya. Under the new system, I think we should be on basically even footing, although I'm not exactly what Velorya's military budget is like. Al Araam is fine for economy and military spending, we're just being held back by our smaller population.

Luckily, I have allies with huge populations. :D
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Al Araam
Apr 10 2007, 02:19 PM
Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 09:52 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 05:48 AM
Remind me not to piss off Velorya.

B)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I suffer the greatest loss of power due to the changing of systems on the entire forum.

Actually, I think I suffer the greatest loss of power under the new system. I was up to something like 615 CPs, which was at the time almost twice Velaroya's posted CP total. That's why I said that Al Araam was much more powerful than Velorya. Under the new system, I think we should be on basically even footing, although I'm not exactly what Velorya's military budget is like. Al Araam is fine for economy and military spending, we're just being held back by our smaller population.

Luckily, I have allies with huge populations. :D

I had 475, didn't I? :huh:
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

lol Nor, I somehow thought you were higher than that... as for me, I was in the 440 range, I believe, last time I posted a count.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 10 2007, 02:24 PM
lol Nor, I somehow thought you were higher than that... as for me, I was in the 440 range, I believe, last time I posted a count.

No, it was 475. I was close to 500 once, but Paradise increased his budget.
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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

The Armed Forces of Al Araam
Population: 4,374,000,000 – Effective: 5 billion
Military Spending: 47% - High
Economy: Frightening - Green

Army:
4,000,000 Infantrymen (2x average)
187,000 Special Forces (4x average)
500 V/A-10 'Scimitar' Heavy Tanks
350 V/A-20 'Jambiyah' Medium Tanks
250 V/A-30 'Kindjal' Light Tanks
250 P/L-10 'Trebuchet' Self Propelled Artillery
75 P/L-20 'Mangonel' Multiple Launch Rocket Vehicles
75 P/L-30 'Ballista' Mobile SAM Launchers

Navy:
15 Tehran Class Aircraft Carriers
15 Arakhyne Class Assault Ships
300 Khorramabad Class Destroyers
180 Ishandiyar Cruisers
180 Hamadan Class Submarines
150 Esfahan Class Frigates
90 Busheshr Mine Hunters

Air Force:
1500 F-10 'Condor' Air Superiority Fighters
500 F-20 'Heron' Close Air Support Fighters
750 H-10 'Scarab' Attack Helicopters
750 H-20 'Moth' Transport Helicopters
200 B-10 'Eagle' Heavy Bombers
120 T-10 'Albatross' Transport Planes
50 S-20 'Sandgrouse' Electronic Warfare Aircraft
50 S-40 'Ibis' Anti-Submarine Warfare Aircraft
20 S-30 'Vulture' High Altitude Radar Aircraft
20 S-50 'Cormorant' Tanker Aircraft
10 S-10 'Kestrel' Spy planes
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Bear in mind that the CP system put an equally great emphasis on population.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
What is considered "effectively" 5 billion? Because I have a more people than Al Araam, and yet I used numbers of four billion as opposed to five. Would it be fair for me to use the five numbers, or should Al Araam use the four numbers?

AND WAIT JUST A COTTON-PICKING MINUTE...I HAVE MORE PEOPLE THAN AL ARAAM!!!??? :o
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Norightsia
Apr 10 2007, 04:08 PM
What is considered "effectively" 5 billion? Because I have a more people than Al Araam, and yet I used numbers of four billion as opposed to five. Would it be fair for me to use the five numbers, or should Al Araam use the four numbers?

AND WAIT JUST A COTTON-PICKING MINUTE...I HAVE MORE PEOPLE THAN AL ARAAM!!!??? :o

I believe the guide said that when the methods call for using billions you could feel free to round to the next billion. E.g., RD could use 7 billion, If I understand properly.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 5 2007, 10:53 AM
Another important issue to note is that the term “for every billion” is thrown around a lot. In all cases feel free to round up to the next billion. And of course, you can always count your stats as being worse than they actually are.

Al Araam rounding up is something of a cheek, because it's intended to help out teh newbs more than anything else. But meh. It's not godmoding thus it is legal.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 10 2007, 03:10 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 5 2007, 10:53 AM
Another important issue to note is that the term “for every billion” is thrown around a lot. In all cases feel free to round up to the next billion. And of course, you can always count your stats as being worse than they actually are.

Al Araam rounding up is something of a cheek, because it's intended to help out teh newbs more than anything else. But meh. It's not godmoding thus it is legal.

Thanks. ^_^

EDIT: Now that I think of it, Paradise actually loses far more power than I do...
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Just an outline so people can say whether or not I'm godmoding. I'm going for a tiny military that's very well trained and powerful in smaller battles, but can be overwhelmed by most nations.

Hispanic Military: green economy, low spending

Infantry 1,007,100
(.003 of population)
(5x better than normal)*

600 vehicles (2x better than average)
450 light tanks (anti infantry/artillery)
50 heavy tanks
60 anti-air
40 recon

navy: normal effectiveness
16 aircraft carriers
27 destroyers
22 anti-ship submarines
2 nuclear submarine
20 frigates
38 cruisers
15 mine hunters

air force:
700 fighters (2x better than average)
70 bombers (2x better than average)
100 cargo planes (average)
1000 helicopters (average)
100 support aircraft (average)

**I'm dividing up my infantry into several categories: guerilla, amphibious, urban, desert, etc. Each division's infantry are 5x better at the terrain they specialize in than average infantry, and 2x on terrain they do not specialize in.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Science and Industry
RD and I decided we will switch the Antebellum South account to represent the Byzantine empire, while Antebellum South will be represented by Deuterian. Here is a preliminary military stats sheet. Due to my well known bias against large numbers I have decreased all numbers by 100x so feel free to multiply everything by 100 for comparative purposes.

Byzantine Empire

Effective total pop: 80,000,000

Army
Infantry: 240,000
Special forces/secret police: 10,000
40 light tanks
70 medium tanks
30 heavy tanks
20 missile launchers
20 self-propelled artillery
100 helicopters

Navy
5 aircraft carriers
1 battlecruisers
1 battleships
20 destroyers
15 submarines
2 minesweepers

Air force:
100 fighters
15 bombers
100 cargo planes
100 support aircraft
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