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Do you like the CP system?
Topic Started: Apr 5 2007, 10:53 AM (1,676 Views)
Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Hispania
Apr 8 2007, 08:02 PM
Question about navy:

What if you have yellow AND normal.

Or yellow and low?

Or yellow and high?

Or red and low?

etc etc etc.

How do you determine the amount of ships you get?


Quote:
 
All nations can afford two aircraft carriers or amphibious assault ship for every billion people in their population. Nations with normal defence spending OR a yellow economy get four aircraft carriers (or assault ships) for every billion people. Nations with high defence spending AND a green economy get six aircraft carriers/assault ships per billion people.


Yellow and low gets 4. (meets the first qualification but not the second)

Yellow and high gets 4. (meets the first qualification but not the second)

Red and low gets 2. (normal condition)


That is how I interpreted it, but hopefully somebody else can say whether that is correct.

Nag Edit

RD is entirely correct:

4
4
4
2
etc etc etc

(If I'd meant "Exclusively Or" I'd have said "Exclusively Or".)

Of course, remember that this is a guide. If you meet one criteria but not the other, no-one is going to crucify you for splitting the difference and taking three ships instead of two (so long as you have a reason for doing so). And by the same token, if you have yellow and normal you could simply take your alloted four battleships and simply assume they are slightly higher quality than the red and normal ships of your enemies.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
A seperate thing, that may be just me:

I'm a fan of smaller, more realistic militaries. Using the current system, 1% of my population is still in the 30 millions, meaning an 30 million man army. This ruins it for me. Even the CP system GENERALLY kept armies smaller.

Then, comparing this with relatively low amount of fighters and bombers, makes for an impossibly skewed system.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Hispania
Apr 8 2007, 08:09 PM
A seperate thing, that may be just me:

I'm a fan of smaller, more realistic militaries. Using the current system, 1% of my population is still in the 30 millions, meaning an 30 million man army. This ruins it for me. Even the CP system GENERALLY kept armies smaller.

The population decrease would have been applicable here. Unfortunately it was shot down.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Maybe we should revive that. :wacko:
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Hispania
Apr 8 2007, 08:13 PM
Maybe we should revive that. :wacko:

We did, in the Secret Conspiracy Forum. It got shot down again.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Then the percentages should be even smaller? Or go with a strict trend like the bombers and aircraft carriers.

Maybe 1 million infantry per billion or somethign like that? At the most.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Hispania
Apr 8 2007, 08:15 PM
Then the percentages should be even smaller? Or go with a strict trend like the bombers and aircraft carriers.

Maybe 1 million infantry per billion or somethign like that? At the most.

2 million per billion. The Russians lost like 10 million in WWII, they had a bunch.
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Caronicilia
Unregistered

Yes, but they were also ill equipped weren't they? I think we should have an option of how much troops we get, but the less we get, the more effective they are. Maybe 1 mill. per billion would be "Standard efficiency" and 2 mill. per billion would be "Half efficiency."
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Well, yeah, but thats already accounted for.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
No.

This isn't Tom Clancy's Nationstates. This is Jennifer Governmet: Nationstates.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 5 2007, 10:53 AM
The smaller your armed forces are compared to your population, the more professional you can expect them to be (and the less your economy will suffer)

[...]

A nation with a high military spending can support having 1.5% of it’s population in the military (not counting logistics). A nation with normal spending can support 1% of it’s population. A nation with low spending can support 0.75%.

[...]

All the numbers provided are rough guides.

[...]

Furthermore, all the above numbers assumes average quality troops and hardware. If you want your troops to be twice as good as average, then you get half as many.

Can support.

If your nation is running Defence as a primary industry and a rediculous amount of your budget is being spent on Defence, then vast numbers of your citizens will be employed by the military. During peace time, they'll probably have "support" roles, but when you go to war, you'll be able to push guns in their hands and roll them out onto the frontline.

The numbers represent the fact that just about any modern nation, push comes to shove, can put a gun in someone's hand and say "shoot" but that it takes time and money to build warships and bombers.

If you are allowed to have 30 million troops, feel free to only take 3 million (and maybe another 3 million reservists).

The vast majority of conflicts (both on NS and in the real world) aren't fought with full force anyway. Committing a few hundred thousand troops will usually be enough to secure victory.

Currently, you're getting ten million per billion. If everyone thinks this is going to present a problem, then I have no objection to making this number include logistics.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
i feel it should include logistics. 1% of the population in the military is mostly logistics IRL anyway.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Hispania
Apr 9 2007, 11:54 AM
i feel it should include logistics. 1% of the population in the military is mostly logistics IRL anyway.

TOO.
MUCH.
MATH.

The CP system was abandoned because of mathiness. We don't need more of it. This isn't a war game.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Quaon
Apr 9 2007, 03:53 PM
Hispania
Apr 9 2007, 11:54 AM
i feel it should include logistics. 1% of the population in the military is mostly logistics IRL anyway.

TOO.
MUCH.
MATH.

The CP system was abandoned because of mathiness. We don't need more of it. This isn't a war game.

How does that add any more math at all? Traditionally, we always did our militaries so that they included logistics within our stated numbers.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 9 2007, 02:54 PM
Quaon
Apr 9 2007, 03:53 PM
Hispania
Apr 9 2007, 11:54 AM
i feel it should include logistics. 1% of the population in the military is mostly logistics IRL anyway.

TOO.
MUCH.
MATH.

The CP system was abandoned because of mathiness. We don't need more of it. This isn't a war game.

How does that add any more math at all? Traditionally, we always did our militaries so that they included logistics within our stated numbers.

Okay, after you calculate your men, you have to calculate how many of them are logistics.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Quaon
Apr 9 2007, 04:02 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 9 2007, 02:54 PM
Quaon
Apr 9 2007, 03:53 PM
Hispania
Apr 9 2007, 11:54 AM
i feel it should include logistics. 1% of the population in the military is mostly logistics IRL anyway.

TOO.
MUCH.
MATH.

The CP system was abandoned because of mathiness. We don't need more of it. This isn't a war game.

How does that add any more math at all? Traditionally, we always did our militaries so that they included logistics within our stated numbers.

Okay, after you calculate your men, you have to calculate how many of them are logistics.

No. They are just saying that the number you have includes logistics. We always did that way in the old days anyway.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Way back in the days of yore when we would wonder what would happen if hypothetically someone hit 1 billion in population the rule was established that you could have no more than 5% of your population in the military, of which 1% were frontline combatants and the other 4% were "support roles". The most important of the "support roles" was logistics, so the two became synonymous. From this came the 5:1 ratio we shout about from time to time.

Anyway.

Current numbers are 1.5%/1%/0.75%
I don't mind reducing said numbers to 0.3%/0.2%/0.15%

But no lower than that.
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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

Quaon
Apr 9 2007, 11:02 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 9 2007, 02:54 PM
Quaon
Apr 9 2007, 03:53 PM
Hispania
Apr 9 2007, 11:54 AM
i feel it should include logistics. 1% of the population in the military is mostly logistics IRL anyway.

TOO.
MUCH.
MATH.

The CP system was abandoned because of mathiness. We don't need more of it. This isn't a war game.

How does that add any more math at all? Traditionally, we always did our militaries so that they included logistics within our stated numbers.

Okay, after you calculate your men, you have to calculate how many of them are logistics.

Or you just take the posted number and divide by 5, giving you the amount of actual active duty personnel. That would be the same amount of math and I fully support this option.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Oh, ok, is that what we are suggesting? Sorry if I misunderstood earlier. But yeah, that is a good idea, I fully support the reduced numbers.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Nag Ehgoeg's military (fresh off the wiki):

Military

Army: 3 million soilders (<0.033% of population)
Special Forces: 1 Million (<0.011%)
Militia: 1 Million (<0.011%)

Vehicles

1000 Persian Civilization Tanks (equiv, Challenger)

750 ATAP LRV (equiv, Fennek)
750 Mobile AA-AI Units (eqiv, M6 Linebacker)
500 Artillery Bombardment Units (equiv, M109 "KAWEST")
A number of All Terrain Personnel Transports (equiv "Desert Fox" with a 10 man carrying capacity)

Airforce

500 Nagian Fighter Craft (equiv, F-15E)
500 Nagian Strike Craft (equiv, F-16)
200 Nagian Bomber Craft (equiv, B52)
50 Nagian Stealth Craft (equiv, B2)
500 Multipurpose Medium Choppers (equiv, Mil Mi-8)

Total Personnel

~6 Million active troops (<0.066% of population)
~40 Million logistics and support (<0.44% of population)
Total: 64 Million, <0.51% of population

****

As I have a Green Economy and Normal Spending I'm allowed upto 0.2% of my population as front line troops.

Assume that: Nagian Soldiers are 50% better than normal; milita are half as good as normal; and Special Forces are twice as good as normal.

That gives me an equivalent infantry number of 7 million which is <0.077% than my population.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
I have Green Economy and High Spending= 1.5% of my population can be in the military.

I have a population of 4430000000: 4430000000*.015=66450000

What does the number 66450000 represent? Is that just foot soldiers?

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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Norightsia
Apr 9 2007, 04:52 PM
I have Green Economy and High Spending= 0.3% of my population can be in the military.

I have a population of 4430000000: 4430000000*.003=13 290 000

What does the number 13 290 000 represent? Is that just foot soldiers?

Infantry. So... yes.
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 9 2007, 05:12 PM
Norightsia
Apr 9 2007, 04:52 PM
I have Green Economy and High Spending= 0.2% of my population can be in the military.

I have a population of 4430000000: 4430000000*.002=8 860 000

What does the number 8 860 000 represent? Is that just foot soldiers?

Infantry. So... yes.

You mean .3%, right?
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Right. (Woops. My bad. Edited.)
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
Hey, can you explain just which kind of vehicles are counted within your set number? I know that tanks, artillery, and mobile AA are. But I don't know what an "ATAP LRV" is. Is that like an IFV? Do I need to represent IFVs with my number (1200 in my case)?
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