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Keep the CP system or scrap it?
Keep the old CP system 6 (25%)
Bring in the new system 18 (75%)
Total Votes: 24
Do you like the CP system?
Topic Started: Apr 5 2007, 10:53 AM (1,673 Views)
Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

I know how we all love polls about the CP system (I love them so much, I nulled my vote on this one).

So a while back, I said "there will be no more changes to the CP system until march at the earliest".

Well now it's April. And I think we have a viable replacement to the CP system.

It's one which is more of a set of guidelines than a mathmatical forumular.

This new system we've designed is heavily influenced by the original Patrua Guide but updated to reflect the fact that the game has moved on since the two years ago that thing was written.

The exact wording of this new guide hasn't been finalised - I'd like someone to re-draft it to make it a little easier to understand, maybe remove some of the maths - but the system itself has been worked out.

So without further ado, I present this alternative to the CP system:

How to Make a Military - v2.3

So you want to go to war... and who can blame you (you power mad dictator)! But first you need an army. This thread is intended to tell you how to build an army and how we handle war here.

1- Don't Godmod:
“Godmoding” can basically be summed up as doing anything which isn’t fair. Having an unrealistically sized army, dictating your enemies actions (or losses), refusing to ever take damage or lose are all examples of Godmoding. Godmoding isn’t fun. It hurts the game. This guide aims to eliminate it.

2- An army that fits:
Look at your nation's physiognomy. Without a coastline, you don't have to bother about amphibious landings or maintaining a navy. So lay the emphasis elsewhere. Is it highly mountainous or afforested, then large parts of it will be inaccessible to armour, so don't blow your funds on tanks. Is your nation wide-spaced and open? Then don't only get heavy tanks rolling for they are easily outflanked, speed and agility are just as important. In the Middle East, there once was this guy named Goliath... Well, you know where I'm going.

3- Budget:
The more technologically adroit, the more expensive they'll be. One F-22 could just as well get you the tenfold of MIG-19's. Remember, an AK-47 is just as lethal as a Tomahawk cruise missile. Also take into account for instance that logistics take up a lot of the army's funds and material. The rule of thumb is one fielded infantry guy takes about five people working in logistics. Also, keep in mind that most of the military budget goes to wages, training, supplies, ammo, maintenance, fuel, ... you know, stuff that constantly needs money being put in.

Calculators, like NS Tracker, give you your XML stats on how much you spend on your military. If you spend more than 40% on your military then consider your spending to be “high”; if you spend between 20% and 40% then consider your spending to be “normal”; and if you spend less than 20% then consider your spending to be “low”. Also look at your economy and see if it’s green (Frightening, All-Consuming, Powerhouse, Thriving or Very Strong), yellow (Strong, Good, Fair, Reasonable or Developing) or red (Struggling, Weak, Fragile, Basket Case or Imploded).

4- Army to Population Ratio:
The smaller your armed forces are compared to your population, the more professional you can expect them to be (and the less your economy will suffer) so not exaggerating in size pays off.

More specifically then.

5- Build an army:

  • Get a bunch of soldiers and keep in mind you need five people in logistics for each of them. A nation with a high military spending can support having 0.3% of it’s population in the military (not counting logistics). A nation with normal spending can support 0.2% of it’s population. A nation with low spending can support 0.15%.
  • Get some vehicles. Heavy tanks have punching power; light tanks (or infantry fighting vehicles) have speed and manoeuvrability; medium tanks combine the two; artillery and missile launchers can take out other tanks from a distance; armoured personnel carriers means your forces are not exposed; armoured reconnaissance vehicles let you scout the terrain; and anti aircraft artillery to deny your enemy from shelling you into oblivion. So the question is... how many can you have? Well as a general rule of thumb you get 200 ground vehicles for every billion people you have. Nations with a red economy get 100 vehicles for every billion people they have, while nations with a green economy get 300.
6- Build a navy:

You'll need some ships but make sure it's a balanced force.

All nations can afford two aircraft carriers or amphibious assault ship for every billion people in their population. Nations with normal defence spending OR a yellow economy get four aircraft carriers (or assault ships) for every billion people. Nations with high defence spending AND a green economy get six aircraft carriers/assault ships per billion people.

Your capital ships, however, need support. Thus for every aircraft carrier/amphibious assault ship take between: 8 to 12 destroyers, 4 to 8 submarines, 4 to 6 frigates, 2 to 4 mine hunters and 4 to 8 cruisers.

  • Get some aircraft carriers, they're essential in modern naval warfare.
  • Get some destroyers, to help in destroying enemy ships.
  • Get some submarines (both the attack kind and the missile kind), they're stealthy and are necessary to attack destroyers and aircraft carriers that aren't yours.
  • Get some frigates to hunt down the enemy's submarines and shoot down enemy planes.
  • Get some mine hunters so can pass through mine fields.
  • Get some cruisers, fast and powerful boats adequate in escort roles.
  • Get some patrol ships, to protect your waters from hostile insertion.
  • Maybe get some river patrol craft.
  • Maybe get some amphibious assault ships.
  • And finally get some oilers and thugs to help and supply your ships.
7- Build an air force:

Without an airforce, you might just as well give up anyway. Control the air, you control the ground. Make sure that if you have (an) aircraft carrier(s), that your planes are adapted to air carriers (eg. don't only have only C130 Hercules transports cause although there have been successful experiments to make 'em land on aircraft carriers they really aren't fit to do so).

  • Get lots of jet fighters (about 300 for every billion people you have) to gain air superiority, escort your bombers, patrol the skies, attack bomber formations and participate in astonishing air shows.
  • Get some heavy bombers (30 for every billion) to bury the enemy under a carpet of bombs.
  • Get some transport planes (20 for every billion) to airlift your forces or material (heavy transport planes will get your heavy stuff lifted but can't land everywhere, light ones will land everywhere but won't take your Abrams tank).
  • Get some helicopters (200 for every billion): attack helicopters, transport helicopters and navy helicopters.
  • Get some support planes (20 for every billion): AWACS to monitor your skies, electronic warfare planes to blind their radars, to scan the waters for submarines, to tank your fighters in the air,...
Nations which spend more on defence than average (high spending, green economy) get more aircraft. Nations which spend less (low spending, red economy), get less.

8- Inconnu - The “Less is More” Shtick:

All the numbers provided are rough guides. A nation which specialises in Naval Warfare might have a few more ships but fewer ground troops and vehicles. A nation with no navy probably has a few more planes.

Furthermore, all the above numbers assumes average quality troops and hardware. If you want your troops to be twice as good as average, then you get half as many. And vice versa if you want them to be half as good as average, you get twice as many. Modern technology, however, is somewhat limted. Under no circumstances can something be five times better than average, and typically things which are less than a third of normal effectiveness aren’t employed by any modern military.

Needless to say, armies don't run on experimental equipment. If you want something better than average, then have it. But if all your gear is state of the future... then we're going to call godmoding on you. Technology like EMP guns, futuristic fighter jets and experimental body armour should be kept to a minimum - a few prototype weapons makes for a good story, but a futuristic army is more annoying than fun.

Another important issue to note is that the term “for every billion” is thrown around a lot. In all cases feel free to round up to the next billion. And of course, you can always count your stats as being worse than they actually are.

One final note is that just because you can, doesn't mean you should (Especially if you don't have a military budget to speek of). You are under no obligation to field the largest military you can afford.

9- Let’s get busy!:

So now you have your army, you can go invade whoever you want right? WRONG!

If you want to go to war with someone (or indeed do anything that might effect them negatively) talk to them first. Send them a PM saying what you want to do and why you want to do it. They should them PM you back and you can discuss the results of what you want to do. Assuming you’re going to war, you can decide who’s going to win and the effects of the war on all sides.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
I like this alternative system far better than the CP system. I vote Aye. ^_^
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Tylistan
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Private
 *  *
Hey, I like it.

Aye
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Pascoag
2nd Lieutenant
 *  *  *  *  *
Oh how I miss this way. I never liked the CP system. I vote AYE
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Caronicilia
Unregistered

Wow, it feels odd that I'm the only one who likes the CP system.... :shy:
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Shreikland
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Sergeant
 *  *  *  *
hehe not really, i like the CP system but i think my nation would do better under the other one :lol:
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Draxis
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Captain
I like the system now that my military is just starting to expand with my economy which is still in the gutter (GDP of 9,000 now! yay! I have been stuck at 6,000 forever). But then again this is the only system I have ever know. I am on the fence on this issue, but if we are going to to a world war I think we should use the CP system for that, and keep it moderately loose for just about anything else.Mostly because I don't want to hear "And the Million Man Cavalry showed up just in time!"
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
But the system is still a system. You can't send more troops than you have. It's less mathy than the CP system and it accomplishes the same thing. It has my full support.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Yippie! Since I abandoned the CP system some time ago, why not!
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Abnar
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Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the lurkiest of them all?
Aye!!! Thank God for Nag and his brilliance!
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Menhad
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ET2(IDW)
New Harumf
Apr 5 2007, 04:06 PM
Yippie! Since I abandoned the CP system some time ago, why not!

I never used it, it took away from planning of wars
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Abnar
Apr 5 2007, 10:47 PM
Aye!!! Thank God for Nag and his brilliance!

Not to blow my own horn. But I came up with the CP system (with help and input from the mod team - particularly Paradise and his system). I also wrote this guide (based on what Patrua turned out... which was based on the RP standards that were set by us "oldies").

So... either way, my idea wins!

Now that is brilliance!

(Or you could look at it as either way I lose... so I suck.)
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Noriega
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Resident Hobbit
I voted for the new guide, seeing as I never can get around to actually doing all those CP calculations. Unfortunately, this weakens Velorya somewhat, I think. :(

Oh well, we all have our cross to bare.
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Assassin
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Field Marshal
I liked the CP system.

But I like this more. AYE!
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Devin Wire
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Captain
None of the calculation tools seem to work right for me.
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Draxis
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Captain
Devin Wire
Apr 6 2007, 10:36 PM
None of the calculation tools seem to work right for me.

Define how they are not working. But from the looks of your nation in the calculator you have 15 CPs with a Defense budget of 0.
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Caronicilia
Unregistered

I just read the system all the way through, instead of blindly shooting it down. This will serve to make us all much, much more even it seems. I like it ^_^
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Devin Wire
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Captain
To quote:

Error
The following error was encountered while attempting to generate the page:The attempt to load data from the XML feed failed. Please try again.
line 59, nseconomy.phpIf you believe this message is the result of a bug, file a request in the bug tracker.
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Caronicilia
Unregistered

Try using NStracker, now that its back online.
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Draxis
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Captain
Devin Wire
Apr 7 2007, 02:53 PM
To quote:

Error
The following error was encountered while attempting to generate the page:The attempt to load data from the XML feed failed. Please try again.
line 59, nseconomy.phpIf you believe this message is the result of a bug, file a request in the bug tracker.

As Caroncilla just said your using the wrong system. Go back a page or two to see Paradise's post on his current Military budget in the Military system thread. He includes a link to NSTracker.
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Devin Wire
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Captain
Thank you so much!
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Looks like the new system will come into effect next month.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
VICTORY! :D

God, I hated the CP system.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

I never actually used it ;)
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Question about navy:

What if you have yellow AND normal.

Or yellow and low?

Or yellow and high?

Or red and low?

etc etc etc.

How do you determine the amount of ships you get?
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