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Just a Suggestion
Topic Started: Apr 3 2007, 11:52 AM (274 Views)
Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Just a suggestion for wars.

Force nations to make maps, or otherwise state somewhere, their military bases. As it stands, I coudl RP bombing an airfield to oblivion, only for the nation I'm opposed too claim there was another airfield a few miles away, full of aircraft and the like, and the airfield I bombed was an old abandoned one.

Just to keep this sort of thing from happening.

Of course, i do realize with the vast majority of the pople here that would never happen, but all it takes is one noob...
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Al Araam
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Demigod of Death & Inactivity

Well, since a war should be planned out via PM beforehand, in broad strokes at the very least, things like this shouldn't happen too often. That said, I think it is a good idea to make a map of the locations of major military installations before getting into a war, whether it's a war on your own soil or not. It keep your posts consistent and keeps you from unintentionally godmodding.
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flumes
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
You can't really RP bombing a base without their consent first. So that could be avoided althogehter by just talking with the other person first.
Maps are a good idea though, I have Military Deployment maps for one of my countries.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
True, but demanding consent once a war has started is not something one can always depend on. Maybe the guy changes his mind, and wants you out. Not really fair to the attacker is it? A system should be in palce for occasions such as these.
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flumes
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
Hispania
Apr 3 2007, 01:00 PM
True, but demanding consent once a war has started is not something one can always depend on. Maybe the guy changes his mind, and wants you out. Not really fair to the attacker is it? A system should be in palce for occasions such as these.

The outcome of the war is supposed to be decided though beforehand for this exact reason. I don't think it is always fair, but it is almost always if not always up to the defender.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Yes, but opinions change. I dunno. I just think, maybe for RP reasons at least, they should be there. At least to help the other guy RP realistic attacks, and th elike.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

This seems like a helpful suggestion to me. Even if everybody is playing fairly, it would greatly help people who are playing in a war to have this kind of information to make plans with. At some point I'll try to make such maps for my nations.

However, I don't know that it should be mandatory.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Hispania
Apr 3 2007, 12:05 PM
Yes, but opinions change. I dunno. I just think, maybe for RP reasons at least, they should be there. At least to help the other guy RP realistic attacks, and th elike.

Novi, just drop it.

If someone doesn't want to be attacked, then they don't want to be attacked. Fairness to the attacker doesn't factor into it.

The forums are about providing a fun game for everyone. Not for warmongers.

If a player is godmoding, mods will step in
If a players defence harms the forums, mods will step in.

But an attacker has no "right" to do anything to do anything to anyone else.

And that will not change.

As a volentary tool to help RPing... well I'm currently making military maps for Nag Ehgoeg right now. It's a good idea for showing what you've agreed on before hand. It's not a replacement for getting consent.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Look, if a situation arises in which an greement was made, but the defender/attacker changes their mind halfway through, it really screws over everything. Let's say the defender agrees to lose, and already well into the war, changes their mind. The attacker is screwed over, and has to leave? A system should be in place to allow the attacker to keep doing the RP, if it has gone past a certain point. If I've occupied half your country an dyou change your mind, it makes no realistic sense that my people just get up and leave.

<_<
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Look nothing. The mods will look it over in a case by case basis.

In the event that happens, we think of a narrative way of coming to a comprimise. We do what we think is best for the forum.

We do not have a system that lets people harm others nations without their consent. Period.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
No.

If this forum ever, ever, allowed people to attack nationstates without the other players consent I would leave.

Novi, this isn't a war forum. If you want to create your Uber Empire and dominate the world, you really are not going to do well here. At all.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
Most exactly. Novi, I thought you understood this when you tried your thing over JAUST. Guess not. But that is how it rolls.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Furthermore, the situation you suggest has never happened here.
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Union
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Pyrenees Republic
Christ, I don't want to go to war. I'd just like that, in the event of a war, even with predetermined outcomes, I can see their bases, and RP a realistic war with realistic orders.
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

Hispania
Apr 3 2007, 10:29 AM
Look, if a situation arises in which an greement was made, but the defender/attacker changes their mind halfway through, it really screws over everything. Let's say the defender agrees to lose, and already well into the war, changes their mind. The attacker is screwed over, and has to leave? A system should be in place to allow the attacker to keep doing the RP, if it has gone past a certain point. If I've occupied half your country an dyou change your mind, it makes no realistic sense that my people just get up and leave.

<_<

I've always viewed that as a form of Godmodding personally. If you've talked it over, then it's been decided and that's that. Can plans change? sure but if the other peson hasn't agreed to it or at the very least isn't even given fair warning then you've purposely taken it upon yourself to decide both the fate of their's and your nation and to me that's Godmodding.

It was a nice suggestion and I certainly applaud the effort of looking to improve our system of play but with that said we have very few cases (if any since at the moment I can't think of one) where a war or engagement of any kind has veered off it's already decided path without prior warning to everyone who would be effected. Luckily we've been honored by having players who understand that communication between players is the key to good RPing and in the event we do get that noob with an attitude to "Take it his/her way" then we'll just send down the might mod hammer and put them in their place.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

NRE
Apr 3 2007, 03:00 PM
Hispania
Apr 3 2007, 10:29 AM
Look, if a situation arises in which an greement was made, but the defender/attacker changes their mind halfway through, it really screws over everything. Let's say the defender agrees to lose, and already well into the war, changes their mind. The attacker is screwed over, and has to leave? A system should be in place to allow the attacker to keep doing the RP, if it has gone past a certain point. If I've occupied half your country an dyou change your mind, it makes no realistic sense that my people just get up and leave.

<_<

I've always viewed that as a form of Godmodding personally. If you've talked it over, then it's been decided and that's that. Can plans change? sure but if the other peson hasn't agreed to it or at the very least isn't even given fair warning then you've purposely taken it upon yourself to decide both the fate of their's and your nation and to me that's Godmodding.

That could be godmoding.

Say I go to war with NRE. We talk it over. I agree to lose. NRE attacks. We tell a cool story. He occupies half my country and I say "no wait, changed my mind - you can't attack me". Then that's godmoding on my behalf.

Say I go to war with NRE. We talk it over. I agree to lose. But what NRE doesn't tell me is that he's secretely arranged for Wadj to sneak attack my allies while he's occupying Nag Ehgoeg to "teach me a lesson". That's deliberate and underhanded deception on the part of NRE and I'd be perfectly within my rights to say "GTFO of my nation!"

And if I did, I'm sure that a responsible mod would create a reason for NRE to leave. Perhaps AA would attack NRE, giving him a good reason to get his troops out of my nation.

I'm not saying that every time you make a stupid choice you should have a get out of jail free card. But I am saying that having formal rules is easily abused. The system we have works, and the only time it wouldn't would be if someone set out to harm someone rather than tell a cool story.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
I sense some sort of random unrelated connection you are trying to make.... <_<
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Kasnyia
Apr 3 2007, 03:54 PM
I sense some sort of random unrelated connection you are trying to make.... <_<

Yes, I'm making a connection to a wider issue. Specifically, I'm addressing two people - they know who they are and neither of them are you Kasnyia. So chill out. Eh? :rolleyes:

I'm done with you. Moved on to bigger fish to fry.
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Comrade Queen
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Comrade Bitchqueen
Eh... military maps could be helpful, but I don't think they should be mandatory. I have enough stuff to map already without having to worry about military bases.
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
Hell, for me its damn near impossible to even map the regular stuff. I be map-making illiterate. :cry:
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Assassin
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Field Marshal
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 3 2007, 05:13 PM
Kasnyia
Apr 3 2007, 03:54 PM
I sense some sort of random unrelated connection you are trying to make.... <_<

Yes, I'm making a connection to a wider issue. Specifically, I'm addressing two people - they know who they are and neither of them are you Kasnyia. So chill out. Eh? :rolleyes:

I'm done with you. Moved on to bigger fish to fry.

:lol: Kas is a 'widdle fish'. |___|

Me: |_________________________| X1000

But to stay on topic, I agree. The current system works so long as its not abused. And for the record, yes I would help you out Nag, or anyone for that matter. You all know the Assassins are warmongering at heart and that this "Peaceful" approach wont last forever. To be honest, I'm itching for a war.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

The Assassination Army
Apr 3 2007, 06:22 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Apr 3 2007, 05:13 PM
Kasnyia
Apr 3 2007, 03:54 PM
I sense some sort of random unrelated connection you are trying to make.... <_<

Yes, I'm making a connection to a wider issue. Specifically, I'm addressing two people - they know who they are and neither of them are you Kasnyia. So chill out. Eh? :rolleyes:

I'm done with you. Moved on to bigger fish to fry.

:lol: Kas is a 'widdle fish'. |___|

Me: |_________________________| X1000

But to stay on topic, I agree. The current system works so long as its not abused. And for the record, yes I would help you out Nag, or anyone for that matter. You all know the Assassins are warmongering at heart and that this "Peaceful" approach wont last forever. To be honest, I'm itching for a war.

Then why are you in an alliance devoted to peace?


(Note: That is not meant as a jab at JAUST, but as a serious question)
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Assassin
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Field Marshal
Good question.

If you think about it, AA was fighting more often than doing anything else. At one point I had 4 wars going at the same time more or less. I've been involved in every major conflict since I came to these boards in some form or another.

I was tired of it and wanted a break from "We'll kill you now, K Thanks." and try to make some diplomatic progress with some other nations. Like EE. We're similar but have always been at odds. Now we're not. Kas as well. Nor I'm working on as soon as I get off my lazy butt.

Peace provided me a good chance to find some new allies, and strengthen myself. So, when I finally do start my next surge of Assassin War I'll be stronger, faster, and better than before.

Think of this as the calm before the storm. Asia's storm. :lol:
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Kasnyia
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Chairman of the Bank
Well I'm all for it, though only after my own plot is over with..thtas gonna be a doozy...time length in RL of about half a year or so too...

But afterwards, oh yeah...lock n' load baby. :D

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Comrade Queen
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Comrade Bitchqueen
The Assassination Army
Apr 3 2007, 03:32 PM
Good question.

If you think about it, AA was fighting more often than doing anything else. At one point I had 4 wars going at the same time more or less. I've been involved in every major conflict since I came to these boards in some form or another.

I was tired of it and wanted a break from "We'll kill you now, K Thanks." and try to make some diplomatic progress with some other nations. Like EE. We're similar but have always been at odds. Now we're not. Kas as well. Nor I'm working on as soon as I get off my lazy butt.

Peace provided me a good chance to find some new allies, and strengthen myself. So, when I finally do start my next surge of Assassin War I'll be stronger, faster, and better than before.

Think of this as the calm before the storm. Asia's storm. :lol:

What about Europe's?
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