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Should i have an Islamic state?; and where?
Topic Started: Jul 24 2006, 06:02 PM (1,093 Views)
Filo
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I don't think exemples you gave are valid for Islam.
Islam sacred book, the Quoran, is a book written 1500 or near years before and, as all others religious book(including Gospels) are under interpretations of the ruling religiuose cast.
For example in the Bibble all non Israelites must be put on death or forced converdeted(and in modern day Israel non-ebrew people are in many ways second-class citezen)
I'm with you that Jesus was a pacific man and teach peace but remain the fact that he said also that "I don't change a iota in the laws of the father" and so this is under interpretation(also if i don't think that Jesus was convert non Israelite by force).
Islam teach that peace with Book people(Christian and Jews) is possible and asupicable and about divide the world in two also Christianity do the same, now as in the middle age.
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Filo
Jul 27 2006, 02:08 PM
I don't think exemples you gave are valid for Islam.
Islam sacred book, the Quoran, is a book written 1500 or near years before and, as all others religious book(including Gospels) are under interpretations of the ruling religiuose cast.
For example in the Bibble all non Israelites must be put on death or forced converdeted(and in modern day Israel non-ebrew people are in many ways second-class citezen)
I'm with you that Jesus was a pacific man and teach peace but remain the fact that he said also that "I don't change a iota in the laws of the father" and so this is under interpretation(also if i don't think that Jesus was convert non Israelite by force).
Islam teach that peace with Book people(Christian and Jews) is possible and asupicable and about divide the world in two also Christianity do the same, now as in the middle age.

WTF? It does not say "Kill all non-Israelites!" By the way, what the religion teaches is irrelevant (although I don't think Mohammed was that nice a person to begin with). The majority (yes, the majority) use it to oppress people and kill them. Sure, modern Christians do that in some places, but not as badly.
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Noriega
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Wadj
Jul 26 2006, 10:57 PM
The CNNP
Jul 26 2006, 10:39 PM
Actually, Zorastrianism was a dualist religion...Ahura Mazda and Mithra.  One diety representing all that was good - Mazda; and the other evil - Mithra.  Some theologians credit this religion with gnosticism.  But it was a step in the direction towards the Jewish religion.  Both Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons were founded by 33rd degree Freemasons which automatically renders their Christian profession invalid.

But the Zoroastrians only worship Ahura Mazda (who is the same as Mithras). Aingra Mainu (sp?) is the evil one, and they didn't worship him.

As for the Witnesses and the Mormons, it was a joke, and I mentioned freemasonry.

Besides, everything I said about them holds true.

Also, in an ironic twist, I bought a pocket watch with masonic symbols on it in an antique store, but it broke a few days later. I just refound it and fixed it. Plus I have a fez. And Masonic ancestors.

WARNING! WADJ IS NOT A FREEMASON. THE FREEMASONS AREN'T TRYING TO RULE THE WORLD. RETURN TO YOUR HOMES. NOTHING IS WRONG. EVERYTHING IS FINE. THIS POST WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 3... 2... 1...

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Posted Image

I have a fez too! B)
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Noriega
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Filo
Jul 27 2006, 02:08 PM
I don't think exemples you gave are valid for Islam.
Islam sacred book, the Quoran, is a book written 1500 or near years before and, as all others religious book(including Gospels) are under interpretations of the ruling religiuose cast.
For example in the Bibble all non Israelites must be put on death or forced converdeted(and in modern day Israel non-ebrew people are in many ways second-class citezen)
I'm with you that Jesus was a pacific man and teach peace but remain the fact that he said also that "I don't change a iota in the laws of the father" and so this is under interpretation(also if i don't think that Jesus was convert non Israelite by force).
Islam teach that peace with Book people(Christian and Jews) is possible and asupicable and about divide the world in two also Christianity do the same, now as in the middle age.

I fear you are mistaken. Islam, by nature, is much moer agressively focused on conversion than the other Abrahamic religions.
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The CNNP
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Well the word Islam means...submission; and Muslim means...he who submits. And if you know anything about the "Night of Power", you would know why they chose the name of this religion as they did. ^_^
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Tristan da Cunha
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Prophet Mohammed was a disgusting, animalistic man.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Trilateral Commission
Jul 28 2006, 10:29 AM
Prophet Mohammed was a disgusting, animalistic man.

He was also a poediophile.

And the harem guards were not only casterated, but had everything cut off (24% non-survival rate as well).

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Filo
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Bizantines have Herem guard but are not islamic, Zoroastrian Persia too...i think we need more respect for our sister religion...but evreyone is free to do whatever he pleased and think of whatever i pleased

To return IC:

I have think to create my islamic nation in a Micronesian Arcipelago in Oceania...

What you think about?

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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Filo
Jul 28 2006, 11:50 AM
Bizantines have Herem guard but are not islamic, Zoroastrian Persia too...i think we need more respect for our sister religion...but evreyone is free to do whatever he pleased and think of whatever i pleased

To return IC:

I have think to create my islamic nation in a Micronesian Arcipelago in Oceania...

What you think about?

Islam is not Christianity's sister religion, and it never was. It was a religion Christians hated. Same with the Jews. And Islam is, in my opinion, the most sexist religion in history (yes, the Catholics screwed the women over, but they didn't cut out their sex organs, for God's sake). If a God would sanction this shit, I'll take my chances with the Devil.
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Filo
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That islam was never sister state of Christiany sorry but i dessagree; in Mediaval age, when we awas the all-religion barbarian(with attacks as now Al-Quaeda is doing) Islam was open and islamic civilization the most great on the earth.
Without Islamic Filosofers and scientis many of the thing we have never existed; without islamic poetry many of the works we read today never exist...and when our women was closed in the castles were in islam many great Queens.
When we burn Jews, Al-Andalus was the most progredited and civilizad place on the earth(excluding Bagdad, but i'm not sure).
And here Jews, Christians and Islamics life side by side withoud fear(the envoy to Charleman by the Caliphate of Cordoba was a Christian Bishop, who was, at home in Islamic spain, the first minister of the Caliph).
Were you see something like this in Europe?

Ottoman empire, before western civilization take with it the concept on nazionality, was a model of Tollerance and religiuse freedom(Also England evoys come to Istambul to see how the semi-miracled empire was moving and living)

Sure now the song is different but History is a strange machine and you cannot judge something for its errors of the past of the present.
Read the Koran and you will find a beautiful source of spirituality and prayer.

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East Anarx
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Filo
Jul 28 2006, 06:09 PM
... you cannot judge something for its errors of the past of the present.

Then how can you judge something?
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 06:29 PM
Filo
Jul 28 2006, 06:09 PM
... you cannot judge something for its errors of the past of the present.

Then how can you judge something?

Well, according to the Islamic apologist here, you can judge Christians by their past problems, but not Muslims for their current. Great sense.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

I'll repeat what I said before. I judge Christianity by Jesus of Nazareth. I judge Islam by Mohammed. The rest is just fluff.
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East Anarx
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The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:40 PM
I'll repeat what I said before. I judge Christianity by Jesus of Nazareth. I judge Islam by Mohammed. The rest is just fluff.

I'll judge Christianity by Christians and I'll judge Islam by Muslims. I'll judge Jesus by himself and Mohammed by himself.
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Syawla
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Quaon
Jul 28 2006, 07:37 PM
Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 06:29 PM
Filo
Jul 28 2006, 06:09 PM
... you cannot judge something for its errors of the past of the present.

Then how can you judge something?

Well, according to the Islamic apologist here, you can judge Christians by their past problems, but not Muslims for their current. Great sense.

Hate is an issue within all religions. The problem is that whereas Christian areas have seen such issues decline in importance due to growth and prosperity, Islamic nations remain stagnant, so such extremism remains more shocking to the outside world where affluence breeds tolerance.
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Rhadamanthus
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Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 08:47 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:40 PM
I'll repeat what I said before.  I judge Christianity by Jesus of Nazareth.  I judge Islam by Mohammed.  The rest is just fluff.

I'll judge Christianity by Christians and I'll judge Islam by Muslims. I'll judge Jesus by himself and Mohammed by himself.

Either way, Islam doesn't come out looking all that well.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:49 PM
Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 08:47 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:40 PM
I'll repeat what I said before.  I judge Christianity by Jesus of Nazareth.  I judge Islam by Mohammed.  The rest is just fluff.

I'll judge Christianity by Christians and I'll judge Islam by Muslims. I'll judge Jesus by himself and Mohammed by himself.

Either way, Islam doesn't come out looking all that well.

Very true.

Edit: Then again, Christianity isn't looking all that hot either...
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Rhadamanthus
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Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 08:58 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:49 PM
Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 08:47 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:40 PM
I'll repeat what I said before.  I judge Christianity by Jesus of Nazareth.  I judge Islam by Mohammed.  The rest is just fluff.

I'll judge Christianity by Christians and I'll judge Islam by Muslims. I'll judge Jesus by himself and Mohammed by himself.

Either way, Islam doesn't come out looking all that well.

Very true.

Edit: Then again, Christianity isn't looking all that hot either...

Really? I'd say its mostly self-corrected its excesses. Got tired of fratricidal bloodbaths and whatnot. That wins a few points in my book.
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Syawla
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Twitches uncomfortably in his atheist chair.
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Rhadamanthus
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Syawla
Jul 28 2006, 09:05 PM
Twitches uncomfortably in his atheist chair.

:lol: I don't really follow a religion either. But they way I see it is this: when the Islamic world gets their act together, I'll give them respect.
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Syawla
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The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 08:08 PM
Syawla
Jul 28 2006, 09:05 PM
Twitches uncomfortably in his atheist chair.

:lol: I don't really follow a religion either. But they way I see it is this: when the Islamic world gets their act together, I'll give them respect.

I just don't see how an organisation that claims one's sins will be forgiven yet will not condone the use of contraception can claim to have corrected itself or its excesses.

And don't get me started on the issue of sexuality.

And, if I may say so, it is foolish to blame the political instability and turbulence of a region on an indiviual religion. Would one do the same of Europe and Christiainity during the early twentieth century?
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 08:02 PM
Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 08:58 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:49 PM
Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 08:47 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 28 2006, 07:40 PM
I'll repeat what I said before.  I judge Christianity by Jesus of Nazareth.  I judge Islam by Mohammed.  The rest is just fluff.

I'll judge Christianity by Christians and I'll judge Islam by Muslims. I'll judge Jesus by himself and Mohammed by himself.

Either way, Islam doesn't come out looking all that well.

Very true.

Edit: Then again, Christianity isn't looking all that hot either...

Really? I'd say its mostly self-corrected its excesses. Got tired of fratricidal bloodbaths and whatnot. That wins a few points in my book.

I meant Christians in general. Kind of an uptight, hypocritical bunch in my experience.
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Syawla
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Can someone answer my question: if it is fair to judge Islam on the actions of Osama Bin Laden, is it fair to judge Christianity on the actions of Adolf Hitler?
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Syawla
Jul 28 2006, 08:17 PM
Can someone answer my question: if it is fair to judge Islam on the actions of Osama Bin Laden, is it fair to judge Christianity on the actions of Adolf Hitler?

No. An ideology can only be judged by it's ideals and their feasibility in society, not by a radical or even an average follower of it.
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Syawla
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Esternarx
Jul 28 2006, 08:23 PM
Syawla
Jul 28 2006, 08:17 PM
Can someone answer my question: if it is fair to judge Islam on  the actions of Osama Bin Laden, is it fair to judge Christianity on the actions of Adolf Hitler?

No. An ideology can only be judged by it's ideals and their feasibility in society, not by a radical or even an average follower of it.

:) Exactly the answer I was looking for.
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