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Military Structure; An idea
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Topic Started: Jul 16 2006, 10:41 AM (865 Views)
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East Anarx
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Jul 16 2006, 06:30 PM
Post #26
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Anarchitect
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Sounds good. But could you come up with something for PDAs?
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Rhadamanthus
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Jul 16 2006, 06:32 PM
Post #27
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Legitimist
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Paradise: sounds good.
Esternarx: PDAs? Sorry, but I can't decipher the abbreviation. Could you please explain for me?
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Paradise
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Jul 16 2006, 06:33 PM
Post #28
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Resident bureaucrat
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- Esternarx
- Jul 16 2006, 07:06 PM
I'm for the math system all the way. Only problem I have is that if a country has no taxes, like Esternarx for instance, wants an army, how do they get one? Can you use the formula for a large corporation that is responsible for a certain portion of the economy or something like that?
I was thinking giving 10 CPs minimum to libertarian countries who don't tax at all. Well, if you've read my last post, that would be 10 PeaceCPs minimum.
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East Anarx
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Jul 16 2006, 06:36 PM
Post #29
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Anarchitect
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Sorry, PDAs are Private Defense Agencies. Its a term used a lot in anarcho-capitalist discussion and I forgot who I was talking to for a moment.
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Paradise
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Jul 16 2006, 06:39 PM
Post #30
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PDAs would be too complicated to implement specifically. We can just say that CPs are used to buy from PDAs too.
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Rhadamanthus
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Jul 16 2006, 06:40 PM
Post #31
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Legitimist
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- Esternarx
- Jul 16 2006, 07:36 PM
Sorry, PDAs are Private Defense Agencies. Its a term used a lot in anarcho-capitalist discussion and I forgot who I was talking to for a moment.
Thanks!
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East Anarx
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Jul 16 2006, 06:41 PM
Post #32
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Anarchitect
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- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:39 PM
PDAs would be too complicated to implement specifically. We can just say that CPs are used to buy from PDAs too.
That sounds reasonable.
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Quaon
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Jul 16 2006, 06:45 PM
Post #33
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:28 PM
I just thought about this... Maybe we could have two formulas: one for peace time and one for war time.
In peace time, the correct formula would be this one: Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget = PeaceCPs
PeaceCPs would be Ğ professionnal ğ CPs, that means they are used to sustain a professional army / navy / air force.
In war time, it is clear that any government can raise the taxes and allocate a higher proportion of the budget into Defence... So I was thinking, maybe they should be able increase both their tax rates and Defence budget proportion. This formula would calculate the WarCPs:
Population*EconomicLevel*(WarTaxRate-0.2*WarTaxRate²)*WarBudget - PeaceCPs = WarCPs
where WarTaxRate and WarBudget are arbitrarily chosen by the player.
That means, all CPs exceeding PeaceCPs would be WarCPs and could be used for conscript units only. Of course, you could buy conscript units with PeaceCPs, but it would cost you less than with WarCPs. In other other words, a PeaceCP would worth more than a WarCP. For example: 1 PeaceCP = 2 WarCPs for a fixed price of conscript unit.
What do you guys think?
No! Not more math!
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East Anarx
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Jul 16 2006, 06:47 PM
Post #34
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Anarchitect
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- Quaon
- Jul 16 2006, 06:45 PM
- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:28 PM
I just thought about this... Maybe we could have two formulas: one for peace time and one for war time.
In peace time, the correct formula would be this one: Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget = PeaceCPs
PeaceCPs would be Ğ professionnal ğ CPs, that means they are used to sustain a professional army / navy / air force.
In war time, it is clear that any government can raise the taxes and allocate a higher proportion of the budget into Defence... So I was thinking, maybe they should be able increase both their tax rates and Defence budget proportion. This formula would calculate the WarCPs:
Population*EconomicLevel*(WarTaxRate-0.2*WarTaxRate²)*WarBudget - PeaceCPs = WarCPs
where WarTaxRate and WarBudget are arbitrarily chosen by the player.
That means, all CPs exceeding PeaceCPs would be WarCPs and could be used for conscript units only. Of course, you could buy conscript units with PeaceCPs, but it would cost you less than with WarCPs. In other other words, a PeaceCP would worth more than a WarCP. For example: 1 PeaceCP = 2 WarCPs for a fixed price of conscript unit.
What do you guys think?
No! Not more math!
God Quaon, I failed the second half of Algebra I and even I can figure this out.
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Paradise
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Jul 16 2006, 06:47 PM
Post #35
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Resident bureaucrat
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:lol:
The two formulas are the same, except you have one more operation (substraction) for the last one :lol:
Come on Quaon, maths are a wonderful tool :lol:
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Quaon
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Jul 16 2006, 06:50 PM
Post #36
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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- Esternarx
- Jul 16 2006, 06:47 PM
- Quaon
- Jul 16 2006, 06:45 PM
- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:28 PM
I just thought about this... Maybe we could have two formulas: one for peace time and one for war time.
In peace time, the correct formula would be this one: Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget = PeaceCPs
PeaceCPs would be Ğ professionnal ğ CPs, that means they are used to sustain a professional army / navy / air force.
In war time, it is clear that any government can raise the taxes and allocate a higher proportion of the budget into Defence... So I was thinking, maybe they should be able increase both their tax rates and Defence budget proportion. This formula would calculate the WarCPs:
Population*EconomicLevel*(WarTaxRate-0.2*WarTaxRate²)*WarBudget - PeaceCPs = WarCPs
where WarTaxRate and WarBudget are arbitrarily chosen by the player.
That means, all CPs exceeding PeaceCPs would be WarCPs and could be used for conscript units only. Of course, you could buy conscript units with PeaceCPs, but it would cost you less than with WarCPs. In other other words, a PeaceCP would worth more than a WarCP. For example: 1 PeaceCP = 2 WarCPs for a fixed price of conscript unit.
What do you guys think?
No! Not more math!
God Quaon, I failed the second half of Algebra I and even I can figure this out.
It's not the math itself, I can figure that out. I just really want to keep this story based, no math shit.
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Paradise
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Jul 16 2006, 06:51 PM
Post #37
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- Quaon
- Jul 16 2006, 07:50 PM
- Esternarx
- Jul 16 2006, 06:47 PM
- Quaon
- Jul 16 2006, 06:45 PM
- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:28 PM
I just thought about this... Maybe we could have two formulas: one for peace time and one for war time.
In peace time, the correct formula would be this one: Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget = PeaceCPs
PeaceCPs would be Ğ professionnal ğ CPs, that means they are used to sustain a professional army / navy / air force.
In war time, it is clear that any government can raise the taxes and allocate a higher proportion of the budget into Defence... So I was thinking, maybe they should be able increase both their tax rates and Defence budget proportion. This formula would calculate the WarCPs:
Population*EconomicLevel*(WarTaxRate-0.2*WarTaxRate²)*WarBudget - PeaceCPs = WarCPs
where WarTaxRate and WarBudget are arbitrarily chosen by the player.
That means, all CPs exceeding PeaceCPs would be WarCPs and could be used for conscript units only. Of course, you could buy conscript units with PeaceCPs, but it would cost you less than with WarCPs. In other other words, a PeaceCP would worth more than a WarCP. For example: 1 PeaceCP = 2 WarCPs for a fixed price of conscript unit.
What do you guys think?
No! Not more math!
God Quaon, I failed the second half of Algebra I and even I can figure this out.
It's not the math itself, I can figure that out. I just really want to keep this story based, no math shit.
You can see the maths more like a guideline than maths ^_^
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Quaon
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Jul 16 2006, 06:57 PM
Post #38
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:51 PM
- Quaon
- Jul 16 2006, 07:50 PM
- Esternarx
- Jul 16 2006, 06:47 PM
- Quaon
- Jul 16 2006, 06:45 PM
- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:28 PM
I just thought about this... Maybe we could have two formulas: one for peace time and one for war time.
In peace time, the correct formula would be this one: Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget = PeaceCPs
PeaceCPs would be Ğ professionnal ğ CPs, that means they are used to sustain a professional army / navy / air force.
In war time, it is clear that any government can raise the taxes and allocate a higher proportion of the budget into Defence... So I was thinking, maybe they should be able increase both their tax rates and Defence budget proportion. This formula would calculate the WarCPs:
Population*EconomicLevel*(WarTaxRate-0.2*WarTaxRate²)*WarBudget - PeaceCPs = WarCPs
where WarTaxRate and WarBudget are arbitrarily chosen by the player.
That means, all CPs exceeding PeaceCPs would be WarCPs and could be used for conscript units only. Of course, you could buy conscript units with PeaceCPs, but it would cost you less than with WarCPs. In other other words, a PeaceCP would worth more than a WarCP. For example: 1 PeaceCP = 2 WarCPs for a fixed price of conscript unit.
What do you guys think?
No! Not more math!
God Quaon, I failed the second half of Algebra I and even I can figure this out.
It's not the math itself, I can figure that out. I just really want to keep this story based, no math shit.
You can see the maths more like a guideline than maths ^_^
If its a guideline, it shouldn't be compulsorary. Edit: Also, this is going to scare away the newbs.
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Paradise
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Jul 16 2006, 07:03 PM
Post #39
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Resident bureaucrat
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I don't think we intend to make it compulsory. I mean, it's more a tool to prevent god-modding than anything else.
It may also proves useful if we indeed want to make a world war. Bilateral wars don't need formulas when both sides agree on how the war is going on. However, for multilateral wars it is harder to get a multilateral consensus.
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New Harumf
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Jul 16 2006, 08:13 PM
Post #40
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:28 PM
I just thought about this... Maybe we could have two formulas: one for peace time and one for war time.
In peace time, the correct formula would be this one: Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget = PeaceCPs
PeaceCPs would be Ğ professionnal ğ CPs, that means they are used to sustain a professional army / navy / air force.
In war time, it is clear that any government can raise the taxes and allocate a higher proportion of the budget into Defence... So I was thinking, maybe they should be able increase both their tax rates and Defence budget proportion. This formula would calculate the WarCPs:
Population*EconomicLevel*(WarTaxRate-0.2*WarTaxRate²)*WarBudget - PeaceCPs = WarCPs
where WarTaxRate and WarBudget are arbitrarily chosen by the player.
That means, all CPs exceeding PeaceCPs would be WarCPs and could be used for conscript units only. Of course, you could buy conscript units with PeaceCPs, but it would cost you less than with WarCPs. In other other words, a PeaceCP would worth more than a WarCP. For example: 1 PeaceCP = 2 WarCPs for a fixed price of conscript unit.
What do you guys think?
No, too complicated. Just give me a % of population, and an economic factor relating to quality of troups. Thank you.
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Noriega
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Jul 17 2006, 04:05 PM
Post #41
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Resident Hobbit
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- New Harumf
- Jul 16 2006, 08:13 PM
- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 06:28 PM
I just thought about this... Maybe we could have two formulas: one for peace time and one for war time.
In peace time, the correct formula would be this one: Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget = PeaceCPs
PeaceCPs would be Ğ professionnal ğ CPs, that means they are used to sustain a professional army / navy / air force.
In war time, it is clear that any government can raise the taxes and allocate a higher proportion of the budget into Defence... So I was thinking, maybe they should be able increase both their tax rates and Defence budget proportion. This formula would calculate the WarCPs:
Population*EconomicLevel*(WarTaxRate-0.2*WarTaxRate²)*WarBudget - PeaceCPs = WarCPs
where WarTaxRate and WarBudget are arbitrarily chosen by the player.
That means, all CPs exceeding PeaceCPs would be WarCPs and could be used for conscript units only. Of course, you could buy conscript units with PeaceCPs, but it would cost you less than with WarCPs. In other other words, a PeaceCP would worth more than a WarCP. For example: 1 PeaceCP = 2 WarCPs for a fixed price of conscript unit.
What do you guys think?
No, too complicated. Just give me a % of population, and an economic factor relating to quality of troups. Thank you.
Amen, baby Jesus, Hallelujah!
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Nag Ehgoeg
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Jul 17 2006, 05:39 PM
Post #42
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The Devil's Advocate
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- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 07:03 PM
I don't think we intend to make it compulsory. I mean, it's more a tool to prevent god-modding than anything else.
It may also proves useful if we indeed want to make a world war. Bilateral wars don't need formulas when both sides agree on how the war is going on. However, for multilateral wars it is harder to get a multilateral consensus.
This post gets my "Amen, baby Jesus, Hallelujah!"
Much as I feel my principles dying as I state this. But a war time budget when nations can just hike up their military spending with little to no concequence is stupid.
Paradise is our worlds greatest military power. (No problem saying that.) This will never change. (Starting to feel queezy.) I propose a system where Paradise gets 1000 CP. (Feeling better.) All other nations shall recieve CP based on the percentage their military spending is compared to Paradise. (Feeling good.) We use the Third Geek stats to determine this. (Retches violently all over the floor.)
Under this system:
Paradise Defence Budget $90,508,913,826,660.02 1000 CP
Catholic Europe Defence Budget $39,356,217,198,909.65 435 CP Nag Ehgoeg Defence Budget $11,535,053,299,157.85 127 CP
Of course this doesn't factor in population. Thus instead of say 10 CP buying 1000 troops, 10 CP would buy 0.1% of your population in basic ground troops.
That any better for you Harumf?
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Noriega
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Jul 17 2006, 05:52 PM
Post #43
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Resident Hobbit
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Oh God no! Thats awful! :o
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flumes
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Jul 17 2006, 06:03 PM
Post #44
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CLEVELAND ROCKS!
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- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 01:59 PM
The formula in question (for point 2): Population*EconomicLevel*(NSTaxRate-0.2*NSTaxRate²)*MilitaryBudget=CPs (rounded) There is also one that doesn't take care of the economy type (i.e. no NSTaxRate): Population*EconomicLevel*MilitaryBudget=CPs (rounded) VariablesPopulation: Your population in millions EconomicLevel: - Code:
-
1 = Frightening 0.9333 = All-Consuming 0.8667 = Powerhouse 0.8 = Thriving 0.7333 = Very Strong 0.6667 = Strong 0.6 = Good 0.5333 = Fair 0.4667 = Reasonable 0.4 = Developing 0.3333 = Struggling 0.2667 = Weak 0.2 = Fragile 0.1333 = Basket Case 0.0667 = Imploded
NSTaxRate: Your NationStates tax rate on a scale from 0 to 1 (ex.: 5% = 0.05, 50% = 0.5, 100% = 1) MilitaryBudget: The proportion, on a scale from 0 to 1 (ex.: 5% = 0.05, 50% = 0.5, 100% = 1), of your national budget going to Defence. This is found here: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/nationdata.cgi/nation=Xwhere X is your nation's name. CPs: Stands for "Command points" and would be used to buy a fixed number of troops/vehicles/planes/ships. Fixed valuesThe 0.0667 modifier for EconomicLevel is equal to 1/15 (there are 15 economic strenghts on NationStates). It would be possible to make the modifier harsher by replacing the numerator with a number > 1. The first formula includes inefficiency from collecting a too high proportion of taxes. For 100% income taxes, you effectively collect 80% (1-0.2). By changing "0.2" to a value X, we can add inefficiency (X>0.2) or remove some inefficiency (X<0.2). Those values are arguable... Examples using both formulasParadise 1st formula: 7778*1*(1-0.2*1²)*0.53 = 3298 CPs 2nd formula: 7778*1*0.53 = 4122 CPs Nag Ehgoeg 1st formula: 7811*0.8667*(0.06-0.2*0.06²)*0.29 = 116 CPs 2nd formula 7811*0.8667*0.29 = 1963 CPs Catholic Europe 1st formula: 7698*1*(1-0.2*1²)*0.21 = 1293 CPs 2nd formula: 7698*1*0.21 = 1617 CPs
I would love to see that used.
Honestly I'm so bad at "gauging" (sp) my sized military. I would love more structure.
Plus, my econony is amazing!!! :lol: :P B)
But I have no taxes :cry:
:lol: I am to easily amused!!!
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Paradise
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Jul 17 2006, 06:33 PM
Post #45
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Resident bureaucrat
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- Nag Ehgoeg
- Jul 17 2006, 06:39 PM
Paradise is our worlds greatest military power. (No problem saying that.) This will never change. (Starting to feel queezy.) I propose a system where Paradise gets 1000 CP. (Feeling better.) All other nations shall recieve CP based on the percentage their military spending is compared to Paradise. (Feeling good.) We use the Third Geek stats to determine this. (Retches violently all over the floor.)
Under this system:
Paradise Defence Budget $90,508,913,826,660.02 1000 CP
Catholic Europe Defence Budget $39,356,217,198,909.65 435 CP Nag Ehgoeg Defence Budget $11,535,053,299,157.85 127 CP
Of course this doesn't factor in population. Thus instead of say 10 CP buying 1000 troops, 10 CP would buy 0.1% of your population in basic ground troops.
That any better for you Harumf?
I can agree with that, and I feel honored to be the "reference nation" :lol:
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New Harumf
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Jul 17 2006, 07:12 PM
Post #46
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
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- Nag Ehgoeg
- Jul 17 2006, 05:39 PM
- Paradise
- Jul 16 2006, 07:03 PM
I don't think we intend to make it compulsory. I mean, it's more a tool to prevent god-modding than anything else.
It may also proves useful if we indeed want to make a world war. Bilateral wars don't need formulas when both sides agree on how the war is going on. However, for multilateral wars it is harder to get a multilateral consensus.
This post gets my "Amen, baby Jesus, Hallelujah!" Much as I feel my principles dying as I state this. But a war time budget when nations can just hike up their military spending with little to no concequence is stupid. Paradise is our worlds greatest military power. (No problem saying that.) This will never change. (Starting to feel queezy.) I propose a system where Paradise gets 1000 CP. (Feeling better.) All other nations shall recieve CP based on the percentage their military spending is compared to Paradise. (Feeling good.) We use the Third Geek stats to determine this. (Retches violently all over the floor.) Under this system: Paradise Defence Budget $90,508,913,826,660.02 1000 CP Catholic Europe Defence Budget $39,356,217,198,909.65 435 CP Nag Ehgoeg Defence Budget $11,535,053,299,157.85 127 CP Of course this doesn't factor in population. Thus instead of say 10 CP buying 1000 troops, 10 CP would buy 0.1% of your population in basic ground troops. That any better for you Harumf?
I believe somewhere I said I was going to shut up and listen until this is brought to a vote, but if there is math involved, I want someone to write a program to figure it out, and if no one can do it, I will.
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Noriega
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Jul 17 2006, 07:42 PM
Post #47
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Resident Hobbit
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Anything but the latest one, please! I'll have about 20 CP, I just know it! :o
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Assassin
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Jul 17 2006, 08:14 PM
Post #48
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Field Marshal
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You? I'll be one of the more weaker nations in Asia. :rolleyes:
Should be an interesting time.
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Noriega
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Jul 17 2006, 11:07 PM
Post #49
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Resident Hobbit
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- The Assassination Army
- Jul 17 2006, 08:14 PM
You? I'll be one of the more weaker nations in Asia. :rolleyes:
Should be an interesting time.
You may end up with 3.5, it's not a big deal to me! :P ^_^ I need to have a lot! More factors then just military budget to be fair. I vote for Paradise's system before he added War/Peace CPs. And keep the inaccuracy minimum dammit! :gnarkgnark:
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Quaon
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Jul 18 2006, 06:42 AM
Post #50
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
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- Esternarx
- Jul 16 2006, 06:36 PM
Sorry, PDAs are Private Defense Agencies. Its a term used a lot in anarcho-capitalist discussion and I forgot who I was talking to for a moment.
You have an anarcho-capitalst forum? Link, please. :D
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