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Is it?
Yes 4 (25%)
No 1 (6.3%)
Sometimes-not for a paper, but for general info 11 (68.8%)
Total Votes: 16
Wikipedia-A Good Source For Info?
Topic Started: Jul 6 2006, 01:28 PM (250 Views)
Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Esternarx
Jul 5 2006, 10:30 PM
"What?" translates as: When, where, and from whom did you get the idea that I spoke German, wanted to be German, or said anything at all about Mad King Ludwig?

"No!" translates as: Worship wikipedia! Obey wikipedia! Love wikipedia! Never stop using wikipedia!

... You're what? 16? 15? 14?

Wiki is crap. It's better than ask. But it's still crap.

Wiki is a start. Wiki is the quick and dirty low down. But you can't rely on the wiki for anything.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Nag Ehgoeg
Jul 6 2006, 01:28 PM
Esternarx
Jul 5 2006, 10:30 PM
"What?" translates as: When, where, and from whom did you get the idea that I spoke German, wanted to be German, or said anything at all about Mad King Ludwig?

"No!" translates as: Worship wikipedia! Obey wikipedia! Love wikipedia! Never stop using wikipedia!

... You're what? 16? 15? 14?

Wiki is crap. It's better than ask. But it's still crap.

Wiki is a start. Wiki is the quick and dirty low down. But you can't rely on the wiki for anything.

16.

Name a single better place on the internet that is faster, better organized, more frequently updated, fairer, and better informed than wikipedia. I dare you.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Esternarx
Jul 6 2006, 03:19 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Jul 6 2006, 01:28 PM
Esternarx
Jul 5 2006, 10:30 PM
"What?" translates as: When, where, and from whom did you get the idea that I spoke German, wanted to be German, or said anything at all about Mad King Ludwig?

"No!" translates as: Worship wikipedia! Obey wikipedia! Love wikipedia! Never stop using wikipedia!

... You're what? 16? 15? 14?

Wiki is crap. It's better than ask. But it's still crap.

Wiki is a start. Wiki is the quick and dirty low down. But you can't rely on the wiki for anything.

16.

Name a single better place on the internet that is faster, better organized, more frequently updated, fairer, and better informed than wikipedia. I dare you.

Ovid.
Athens.
CINIAL.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Nag Ehgoeg
Jul 6 2006, 03:35 PM
Esternarx
Jul 6 2006, 03:19 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Jul 6 2006, 01:28 PM
Esternarx
Jul 5 2006, 10:30 PM
"What?" translates as: When, where, and from whom did you get the idea that I spoke German, wanted to be German, or said anything at all about Mad King Ludwig?

"No!" translates as: Worship wikipedia! Obey wikipedia! Love wikipedia! Never stop using wikipedia!

... You're what? 16? 15? 14?

Wiki is crap. It's better than ask. But it's still crap.

Wiki is a start. Wiki is the quick and dirty low down. But you can't rely on the wiki for anything.

16.

Name a single better place on the internet that is faster, better organized, more frequently updated, fairer, and better informed than wikipedia. I dare you.

Ovid.
Athens.
CINIAL.

None of those have links, so I could assume that you meant Ovid the Roman poet, Athens the ancient Greek city, and have no idea what the hell CINIAL is. Notice I said,
Quote:
 
Name a single better place on the internet that is faster, better organized, more frequently updated, fairer, and better informed than wikipedia.
I'm not gonna go scouring the internet looking for those three things. I googled them and most of the crap that came up is incomparable to wikipedia because either it is about something else, like healthcare or education, or is impossible to get into because it requires usernames, passwords, etc. Give me a link.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Google for the win it seems.

Yes, they are educational databases of scientific and medical journals. You won't find any reliable peer reviewed websites that are updated more than Athens.

You didn't specify free. You said fairer, and better informed. I can log into the Wiki right now and change each page to a redirrect to a picture of monkey faeces. And with a roaming IP address, I can do that day in, day out.

Look at the sources cited by most wiki articles (on the few that don't have "Citation needed" plastered all over them) - most of them are other websites.

Anyone can put lies on the internet. And anyone can put those lies on the Wiki.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Nag
 
I can log into the Wiki right now and change each page to a redirrect to a picture of monkey faeces. And with a roaming IP address, I can do that day in, day out.


That's why they have Reverts. Still, supposing you could do that, why would you want to? Why would anyone want to? The cons outweigh the pros. Sure, you may get some sadistic satisfaction out of momentarily disrupting Wikipedia's normal flow and causing people looking for certain information a little bit of hastle having to revert, but if the Wikicrats find out, they may ban your ip address. Not a big deal if you roam and do it, but how long will you get satisfaction out of screwing with Wikipedia? Longer than the people who will try to stop you? I doubt it.

If you don't screw with Wikipedia, you'll get all it's benefits without having to switch IPs. The benefits of Wikipedia:

Wikipedia is voluntary, (people do it because they believe in freedom of information, not because the government or anyone else is forcing them to), it's free, (no payments whatsoever, people donate voluntarily), it's updated frequently, (with millions of people going through wikipedia every hour, any problems are found quickly and fixed, or if disputed, eventually agreed upon), it's accurate, (again, because so many people are using it, big mistakes don't last very long because they are caught and fixed quickly), its F'ING HUGE!!, (wikipedia contains 1,234,000+ articles, and that's in English alone, if you can't find it on wikipedia, it doesn't exist, and if it does exist and you still can't find it, you can always make an article about it for free, did I mention it was free?)

And if wikipedia isn't enough, check out wiktionary (a free online dictionary and thesaurus that rivals dictionary.com) , or wikibooks (free, completely friggin free, online textbooks and manuals for just about everything), or wikinews (Free content News from all around the world, all the time, instantly), or wikisource (the biggest collection of free content in the world), or wikispecies (a taxonomical database whose goal is classifying and organizing all life on earth, for free), or wikiquote (a massive free collection of quotes from famous and infamous people and tons of anonymously famous quotes too, over 7,000 pages chock full of quotes, all F-R-E-E), need I go on?

Is it perfect? No. Not even close.

Is it fallible? Of course, but name something that isn't.

Is it the best thing on the web for finding in-depth information about anything and everything at the click of a button? Absolutely.

There is an enormous amount of lies on the internet. You can't trust everything you hear or see, but wikipedia has a dedicated and passionate base of supporters who will do everything within their power to make sure that wikipedia is true, and fair, and free for anyone who desires to use it. You can go on all day about people who post lies and malicious rumors on wikipedia, but those people are far outnumbered by people who value truth and are dedicated to sorting out the truth from the lies, the fact from the fiction. If that's not good enough for you, if that's still "crap" in your eyes, then you have three choices:

1) You can stop using it all together, it's voluntary, no one is forcing you to use wikipedia.

or

2) You can bitch and moan 'til the cows come home about how easy it is to lie and falsify on wikipedia. You can complain about all the little things that are wrong and brag about how you could post pictures of monkey shit all over wikipedia if you wanted to.

or

3) You can make it better. You can get your ass on the wiki and when you see a mistake or a lie, you can fix it. You can help wikipedia become a guiding light of truth and freedom of information to everyone in the world for free.

Edit: typos
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
To end Nag and Esternarx's argument in the Italy thread.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

I'm confused about your poll. "Sometimes for a paper but not for general info?" I don't know what kind of papers you write, but when I write a paper, it requires a lot higher standard of information than general info. I would say, Sometimes for general info, but not for an argument or a paper.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

How will voting end the argument?

Besides, all it will take to end the argument will be if Nag admits that he was wrong in calling wikipedia crap.

Edit: He said "not for a paper, but for general info"
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 6 2006, 05:43 PM
I'm confused about your poll. "Sometimes for a paper but not for general info?" I don't know what kind of papers you write, but when I write a paper, it requires a lot higher standard of information than general info. I would say, Sometimes for general info, but not for an argument or a paper.

You misread the line.

And, Esternarx, I just want it out of the Italy thread.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Oh damn, I guess I did misread it. Sorry!
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Quaon
Jul 6 2006, 05:48 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 6 2006, 05:43 PM
I'm confused about your poll.  "Sometimes for a paper but not for general info?"  I don't know what kind of papers you write, but when I write a paper, it requires a lot higher standard of information than general info.  I would say, Sometimes for general info, but not for an argument or a paper.

You misread the line.

And, Esternarx, I just want it out of the Italy thread.

good idea. Hopefully an admin, like Nag, will move our little discussion
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Quaon
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A Prince Amoung Men-Shoot First and Ask Questions Later
The Resplendent Dawn
Jul 6 2006, 05:49 PM
Oh damn, I guess I did misread it. Sorry!

Lol. :P
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

Nope I beat him to it. Upon the request of Quaon, the wiki arguement has been moved from the Italy thread to this one. All further comments about wiki that pertains to the arguement at hand are to know be filed here. Have a nice day :P.....score one for the mod :D B)
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

I voted for the sensible option! (Even though I didn't start this poll).

For general information, wiki is fine. It's just like asking a dozen of your friends to tell you everything they know about a subject - there will be some misconceptions, there certainly won't be cutting edge information (as truely upto date stuff isn't availble to the general public, and whenever someone tries to bring it to the wiki they get shot down as spreading false rumours), but you get some quick and dirty info.

If you want to start to find out about a topic, by all means use wiki.

But the Wiki is not the be all and end all of information.

Without qualified professionals reviewing the content, Wiki can be used for evil even by those with good intensions. For example, if you have a bad experience with a car, or with a hospital proceedure then you post on the wiki, your experience could cause others undue worry.

The Wiki is about as accurate as a Dan Brown novel.

And yet, I use it.

I encourage others to use it when they are woefully ingorant and I know they won't do any detailed research.

To find out for yourself, by all means use wiki.

Do not, however, spread that information to others without making it clear that the wiki is your source.
Do not call the wiki "accurate" - their dedicated and passionate base of supporters don't hold pHds in their chosen fields of interests.

The wiki is a curiosity. It's a starting point.

It is not the gospel truth. It never will be. No information on the wiki can be taken as the literal truth.

It is a good way for a number of people to quickly share information and build a reference database - which is why I love the use of wiki's for online games.

If you're righting a serious paper, wiki is grade suicide.

You need to get off the net, and into a library.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Nag, you are right.......and you are wrong. It just depends. Take, for example, the new executable notation I am learning (can't call it a programming language, because it isn't). It is called "J". Everything you need to master the notation is on wiki, including the links to get the code to load on your computer, the instruction manuals, the help stuff - you name it, it's there, and it's complete. So, some very technical stuff is there, and valid, and better than any other source - it just depends on the commitment of the people putting up the information.

In general, tho, if you want a very brief and general discription of something or someone, wiki is a great place to start. If you are writing a high school paper, it can also be a good source of information (I'd still verify the info though). If you are writing a college paper, or a technical paper, or a trade paper, go to a very good library, please (which for you, E, living in Austin, should NOT be a problem), or subscribe to a trade or professional journal.

Now, I think the longer wiki is around, the more corrupt it will get, unless they start locking certain topics when they are complete and verified.
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Filo
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General
Its not the Enciclopedia Britannica or our Italian "Tre cani" but is still a good point for start if you want know who ruled Greece in 1926 or what is the Califf in 900.
Or similar curiosities.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Filo
Jul 7 2006, 02:03 PM
Its not the Enciclopedia Britannica or our Italian "Tre cani" but is still a good point for start if you want know who ruled Greece in 1926 or what is the Califf in 900.
Or similar curiosities.

But can you?

Do you know who ruled Greece in 1924? If you do, you don't need the wiki. If you don't, you have no idea if the information there is right.

Whereas if it was from a text book with cited sources, you can be reasonably sure.
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East Anarx
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Anarchitect

Nag Ehgoeg
Jul 7 2006, 03:51 PM
Filo
Jul 7 2006, 02:03 PM
Its not the Enciclopedia Britannica or our Italian "Tre cani" but is still a good point for start if you want know who ruled Greece in 1926 or what is the Califf in 900.
Or similar curiosities.

But can you?

Do you know who ruled Greece in 1924? If you do, you don't need the wiki. If you don't, you have no idea if the information there is right.

Whereas if it was from a text book with cited sources, you can be reasonably sure.

They have to cite their sources on wiki too.
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Filo
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General
Nag Ehgoeg
Jul 7 2006, 03:51 PM
Filo
Jul 7 2006, 02:03 PM
Its not the Enciclopedia Britannica or our Italian "Tre cani" but is still a good point for start if you want know who ruled Greece in 1926 or what is the Califf in 900.
Or similar curiosities.

But can you?

Do you know who ruled Greece in 1924? If you do, you don't need the wiki. If you don't, you have no idea if the information there is right.

Whereas if it was from a text book with cited sources, you can be reasonably sure.

Well yes i can do so...and if i need a more sure source i goes on Bublic Library.
If, instead, i need only the information to answer, for example, to a question i use Wiki
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Esternarx
Jul 7 2006, 04:00 PM
Nag Ehgoeg
Jul 7 2006, 03:51 PM
Filo
Jul 7 2006, 02:03 PM
Its not the Enciclopedia Britannica or our Italian "Tre cani" but is still a good point for start if you want know who ruled Greece in 1926 or what is the Califf in 900.
Or similar curiosities.

But can you?

Do you know who ruled Greece in 1924? If you do, you don't need the wiki. If you don't, you have no idea if the information there is right.

Whereas if it was from a text book with cited sources, you can be reasonably sure.

They have to cite their sources on wiki too.

How many articles have you read where it just had the little box saying "Citation needed" after a statement?

How many articles have you read which reference only other websites - who checks if these sources being used on the wiki are accurate?

Books go through a Peer Review process. Experts look over the information to be published, check the research and only allo truthful information to be published. Wiki doesn't do that. You can host information on your own website, then post it on the wiki and cite your website as the source. That's not accurate.

If you want a quick answer, then use the wiki.
If you want general information to get to know a topic, then use the wiki.
If you're starting a serious research project - well, I start by checking the wiki, then I go on to double check the information and find more information by searching other sources.

And because I use the wiki (and double check all the information I get from there) I know just how inaccurate it can be.

It's a great way to find out quick information and curisosities - if it doesn't matter if you're wrong. If you read something in a forum and are totally lost, then please, use the wiki to get an idea of what's going on. If people are having an arguement on a topic, however, do not vist the wiki and declare yourself an expert.

If you're starting a research project, by all means look at the wiki to get a good idea of what the topic is about. Then use the information you gain from the wiki when searching more reliable sources.

Wiki is the world's largest rumour mill. Doesn't mean it's information isn't true. Doesn't mean it is true.
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
I voted yes. Wikipedia has not let me down yet.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Seeing as you have no idea if the info you've got off the wiki is true, how do you know it's not let you down?

And you couldn't find your fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of your mouth on the wiki.
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
It's not let me down because then I've read it in a book (from the Uni library) for example.
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New Harumf
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Bloodthirsty Unicorn
Catholic Europe
Jul 9 2006, 09:50 AM
It's not let me down because then I've read it in a book (from the Uni library) for example.

Well, you are majoring in History, so facts are easy to check, and opinion is just that.

If you were in a technical or scientific area you might find Wiki to be less reliable. Let's put it this way, I wouldn't want my doctor to rely on wiki to diagnose and treat deep-vein thrombosis!!
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