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Neo-Macedonian Civil War; Catholics vs Loyalists
Topic Started: Oct 25 2005, 01:12 PM (1,823 Views)
Catholic Europe
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The Resplendent Dawn
Dec 6 2005, 02:49 PM
But they are talking about a trial! If he's obviously guilty in everybody's eyes, then it is illogical to have a trial. Its only logical to have trial if he can be found either guilty or innocent. If its already decided, than there is no point in having a trial, and he ought to just be punished.

Now its one thing for people to believe that he is guilty, and act on that premise. However, if they want to have a show trial, shouldn't they at least pretend he could be not guilty?

Well, I was all for just a straight burning, but other people had to go and interfer.
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Tristan da Cunha
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OOC

The South Afrian Emperor proposes this compromise as politically sensible form of justice served by an acceptable Catholic nation, without going to Catholic extremes and alienating the Egyrian demands against the Holy League (which SA is not part of). The trial would lend an air of legitimacy to the backroom political deal.
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
Catholic Europe
Dec 6 2005, 04:20 AM
OOC: I need to consider my actions very carefully here. Unfortunately some people have messed up my plans (and, it's not the usual suspects totally). I am not ready to lose everything in a war with Paradise. I will refuse to go to war with Paradise, simply because we have had such good relations with them in the past.

IC:

Highly Secure and Encrypted Telegram

To: Queen Cloe of Neo-Macedonia
Emperor Galerius I of Norightsia
Emperor Jean of Syawla
Emperor Jacob of South Africa

My sons and daughter, Egyria truely is the spawn of Satan. That nation has, in the past, repeatedly condemned and threatened the Catholic world if they even thought about interfering in another states business, and yet, they have invaded Neo-Macedonia, killing, no slaughtering innocent children, raping them when dead. They will truely face the wrath of God and the children shall be praised as martyrs ever more.

However, I warn you to be careful. I must consolidate my arrangements with other nations first before any action can be taken. Catholic Europe is herself, faced with three diseases, 3 threats and we can not tolerate anymore or an escalation of anyone of these threats for otherwise the Body is in peril of dying. That is the reality of the situation that we are in.

I will write you when I have come to my conclusion and have finished my dialogue with other nations. Until then, I ask that you remain high on alert and punish all those who aided the Egyrians.

Private and Secure Telegram

To: Sheikh Saddam bin Mohammed of Egyria
From: His Holiness, Pope John XXV

I am willing for you to trial Hadrianus, if you agree, once the verdict has been given, to hand him over to the Catholic authorities in any Holy League nation to be executed according to our customs.

I am not stupid and have read up on your 'international' law and I expect that, what you claim will be a fair and unbiased trial, the verdict will be guilty. I will be most angry if you find him not guilty despite his treason, which you know all about.

This is my only compromise and I will not tolerate a slap in the face.

OOC: I love the loaded language CE - the attitude of the Church on these forums is always entertaining :lol:

IC:

SECURE CHANNEL 341841-HA1

To: Pope John XXV
From: Chief Ambassador Omar ibn Zaid, Egyrian Ministry of Diplomacy

I am afraid that technically your jurisdiction does not apply here, so that you could not execute Hadrianus yourself. Hadrianus would have to be extradited to Neo-Macedonia for the deed - which is still according to your wishes, but just to remind you.

Keep in mind, however, that neither Neo-Macedonia nor Egyria has the right to sentence Hadrianus - that will be left up to the Court. Of course, at least one member of the Holy League and Egyria will be on the tribunal, but we will not comprise it wholly. Should Hadrianus receive a sentence of exile or life in prison from the tribunal, then that sentence would need to be carried out in full - a violation of it by, say, Neo-Macedonia by assassinating him would unfortunately require the members of the Court to intervene.

The case for Hadrianus is admittedly not very strong but then again neither is the case against him either. Please remain patient and calm while a Court is prepared.

OOC again: Egyria here isn't completely trying to piss of the Holy League so much as show that they won't back down under pressure - remember, Egyria wants to be what Patrua used to be.

Somehow we need to organize a tribunal to investigate Hadrianus - one that isn't flooded with Papal members, because that would defeat the purpose of it.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Sicily and SOuth Africa are both willing to send representatives to the court.

---

"The unfolding events in southern Africa represent a blow against the natural course of justice as sanctioned by God. It is a duty for Catholics to boycott and reject the purported validity of this tribunal. Let the insolent imperialists and persecutors of Catholics indulge the criminal Hadrianus in their appalling orgy of injustice brazenly called an impartial "International Court". We shall never submit to this evil secular tribunal convened by the battleships and missiles of the Egyrian government; we will only submit to the judgment of God's laws and God's Church."

-Cardinal John Solomonides, the South African crown prince, in a opinion piece published in "Milan Observer" newspaper.
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Noriega
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Private Transmission

to: His Holiness, the Pope and Successor of Peter, John XXV

from: the Asian exile, Galerius

I have spent much time stidying your words father. Indeed your wisdom is obviously infallible, but I seem to need direction of the Spirit. Shall I withdraw my conditions to Egyria? Shall I back down to avoid confrontation? Or should I stand firm? Perhaps I overreacted. You see I must be counseled for I am a sinner, even if the Spirit works through me. What shall I do?

Furthermore, I believe I can steal Hadrianus back from the Egyrians. It is a long shot, but the possibility remains. I await your permission to attempt this mission. Pending permission from your faithful daughter Chloe, of Africa, I shall attempt this deed for the Church.
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Paradise
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
Dec 6 2005, 12:26 AM
SECURE LINE 3174178-D21

TO: Paradisian Government
FROM: Chief Ambassador Omar ibn Zaid, Egyrian Minister of Diplomacy

As you know, Sheik Saddam bin Mohammed has granted the Neo-Macedonian General-King Marcus Hadrianus political asylum.  He has done this to ensure that the man faces a fair and unbiased inquiry and trial - which he would not receive from the Catholics - but, predictably, the Papal nations are overreacting - dangerously so.

Will you help guarantee General Hadrianus' asylum so that justice is served?

TO: Chief Ambassador Omar ibn Zaid, Egyrian Minister of Diplomacy
FROM: Paradisian Department of Foreign Relations

We have received your message and we agree to judge General-King Marcus Hadrianus.


Public Announce

Paradise will host the trial of Marcus Hadrianus. The Supreme Council of Justice will judge him impartialy over current international laws.
We assume Egyria will find a lawyer for Mr. Hadrianus, so some other nation should offer a prosecutor.
The trial shall start in a week or so, in Riyadh, giving some time to find a prosecutor.


Co-signed by the Department of Foreign Relations and the Department of Justice
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

NMN: Neo-Macedonia News

After recieving word from the Paradisian Government Queen Chloe, the rightful ruler of Neo-Macedonia released this statement to the Public:

We will not condemn the actions of Paradise for they are doing what they believe is right and what has been asked of them by Egyria. It is true that theyjudgement has been clouded by the agents of Satan but truly only God can judge them now for this transgression. As for Mr. Marcus Hadrianus whose, might I add, status as a General or King in this nation is null and void and will never be reenstated, will be judged by God and will burn in the ever living flames of hell. He is an evil and vile demon who plagued my nation for months and I can only see it as a sign from God that he was removed and my people regained their freedom. However, it is God's will that his soul be damned and it is God's will that his mortal body be burned in the mortal flames so that his soul be forever ingulfed in hell's fire.

However, since the international community wishes to do on with what is, in my most honest opinion, a utter waste of time, this trial of Mr. Hadrianus, Neo-Macedonia offers Mrs. Arrecina Tertulla. Before the war, she was our countries top
prosecutor and since this trial will deal with Mr. Hadrianus's crimes, I feel that it is only right to have a victim of his crimes be the prosecution to ensure that the criminal recieves his punishement in full.


Thank you.

No word yet on how the church nor the international community feels on these words by the Queen. Since the Egyrians extracted Marcus Hadrianus, the Queen has been able to build a working government for the time being until this present matter can be taken care of, we're told that after that point a more permanent government structure will be put in place. This has been an NMN report.

Private and Encrpyted Message
To: His Holiness Pope John XXV
From: The unworthy Queen Chloe

Most holy father, Pope John XXV I beg for your forgiveness. In the face of evil I failed not only you, but the church and God himself when I allowed the Egyrians to take the evil Hadrianus from us. I cannot change what has happen however, I have a plan which if your permission is granted, I believe will allow us to regain Hadrianus and burn him. I believe that the Norightsian, Your faithful, have the trained soldiers to infiltrate Egyria to extract Hadrianus. When can them bring him to a private location, your choosing of course, and burn him so that I may fulfill God's will.

Please holy father I beg for your guidance in this matter and assure your holiness that once the scum Hadrianus is dealt with, our inquisition will seek out the rest of his kind in Neo-Macedonia and purge them from our lands.
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Rhadamanthus
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NRE: Would you be interested in complicating this storyline further? If so, I do have some interesting ideas, but I don't want to do anything that would throw off your plans without your approval.
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Catholic Europe
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OOC: So much to consider and to think about.

IC: Private and Secure Telegram

To: Queen Chloe of Neo-Macedonia
Emperor Galerius I of Norightsia
From: Pope John XXV

Go ahead with your plans. I will demand that a Catholic European representative will attend the trial, but go ahead with the plan anyway. You have my blessing. Do not fail me.

********************

I demand that, as General Hadrianus will, essentially, be trialled for crimes against Catholics that I send a representative to his trial. I nominate Cardinal Marco Gastiglione, a member of the Catholic European Inquisition, to attend the trial. If this is refused I will announce the trial to be void and illegitimate and refuse to acknowledge the decision of the Court.

Pope John XXV
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Paradise
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The Department of Foreign Relations has institued an additionnal guideline today: each nation has the right to bring one representative and only one. Paradise will ensure their safety but doesn't cover their subsistence fees.

The Supreme Council has logically chosen Mrs. Arrecina Tertulla as prosecutor for the trial of Mr. Marcus Hadrianus.

Note that the paradisian Supreme Council of Justice is made of 5 Supreme Judges, taking their decisions democratically. That means the prosecutor will have to convince at least 3 judges that Marcus Hadrianus is guilty.
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The CNNP
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The People's Republic of The CNNP will send Senator Eduardo Duhalde, to attend the funeral and trial; all expenses paid by the National Assembly.
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
***
THIS IS WWN...

Posted Image

General-King Marcus Hadrianus of Neo-Macedon was moved to Paradise today, pending international trial.

"We have made this move because we want to remind the Catholics that Egyria is not putting General Hadrianus on trial - the world is," said Sheik Saddam bin Mohammed of Egyria in a statement earlier today.

Much controversy has surrounded the Egyrian decision to extract Hadrianus, the former de facto ruler of Neo-Macedon, from a military compound after being chased by forces from the Holy Catholic League out of office.

The Catholic nations have argued that Egyria was acting completely out of line and violating the sovereignty of Neo-Macedon.

"This is complete lunacy," said Omar ibn Zaid, head of the Ministry of Diplomacy. "Egyria was only acting in accordance with international law that states that war criminals are to be tried by an international tribunal. This is in any case irrelevant because that is not on trial here; what is on trial are Hadrianus' actions. Egyria is helping to provide a defense for the General that will attempt to prove that he was only acting in what he believed were the best interests of his nation. I have no further comment."

No trial date has been set.

In other news, the NeoRoman government asked Saxe-Coburg and Prussia to return...

***

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Tristan da Cunha
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"Mr. Ibn Zaid is mischaracterizing the fate of Hadrianus to justify Egyria's foreign imperialism. General Hadrianus is being accused of crimes against God and treason against the government of Neo-Macedonia. Whether or not the general truly believes he is working in the interests of the nation, and whether or not he committed war crimes as defined by "internaional law", are irrelevant concerns. This whole matter is an internal affair of the independent and sovereign Kingdom of Neo-Macedonia which should not have been tampered with by a force of armed invaders from Egyria to begin with."

-Cardinal John Solomonides, legal advsior to CE Inquisition (OOC cleared with CE.)
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Paradise
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O.O.C.: I'm not a jurist, if anyone is, please PM me the standard steps of a trial :P

The trial will begin on December 12th. The prosecutor will bring the accusations against Marcus Hadrianus and the evidences.

On December 13th, Hadrianus's lawyer will present his defence. Then each susbsequent day, both jurists will try to convince the judges that Mr. Hadrianus is guilty or not. The debate will end when the Supreme Council will say so. Some days later, after the judges will have deliberated and voted, the decision will be publicly announced.
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Noriega
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At the same time Hadrainus's plane landed in Paradise, another plane was in its decent. A passenger liner from the Cote D'Ivoire, which had essentially become a Norightsian puppet. On it was another Arcani Agent. Lucius Luto was among the Order's(Arcani Order, not to be confused with Shoa and Co.) finest. And he was on the most sensitive mission of his career. Now he just had to sit and wait for the signal...
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Rhadamanthus
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NRE: I sent you a private message with my idea, which I had forgotten before and then remembered.
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

The Resplendent Dawn
Dec 14 2005, 11:55 AM
NRE: I sent you a private message with my idea, which I had forgotten before and then remembered.

I PMed you back RD and while I'm thinking about it will you split mine and Egyria's opening argument into a separate trial post. Thanks
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Paradise
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OOC.: Sorry but I have three exams coming in a matter of less than a week and I must study. Unless you want to start the trial right now, wait for me please. My last exam is on Tuesday, December 20th.
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

Paradise
Dec 14 2005, 12:44 PM
OOC.: Sorry but I have three exams coming in a matter of less than a week and I must study. Unless you want to start the trial right now, wait for me please. My last exam is on Tuesday, December 20th.

Sounds fine with me, I have exams coming up myself, two tomorrow and two of friday so if it's ok with Egyria I'd like to just want until paradise is able to be judge, however if RD has the time he may go ahead and move the posts that I requested into a new thread.
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Rhadamanthus
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Where should I split it? There are a lot of posts that talk about the trial, not sure where to begin.
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