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Neo-Macedonian Civil War; Catholics vs Loyalists
Topic Started: Oct 25 2005, 01:12 PM (1,825 Views)
The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
SECURE LINE 1381840-FJAZX

To: Queen Chloe of Neo-Macedonia
From: Sheik Saddam bin Mohammed of the Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria

I can understand the plight of your nation. Egyria herself was caught in a highly-destructive civil war that saw confusion sowed everywhere as the various commanders attempted to reunite their country.

It is here that the comparisons end, however. With the exception of General Abdel, all the Egyrian commanders who fought in the civil war were acting in good faith in genuine attempts to unify the nation. Indeed, all but Abdel were forgiven and remain in the military to this day.

The situation was different in Neo-Macedonia. General Hadrianus was only acting in the manner that he thought best to preserve his nation, and yet instead of diplomatic discussion to resolve the issues, instead a full-scale Crusade was launched on your own country!

General Hadrianus' actions are not relevant. What is relevant is that your citizenry was deliberately placed in harm's way by declaring a religious war that was not necessary by your person. This reflects very poorly on your capabilities to lead, to be blunt madam.

General Hadrianus must not be harmed. He must face an inquiry that is not Catholic-led because of the absurdly obvious bias that would result.

Thus I am offering Marcus Hadrianus political asylum and placing him under my protection. Tomorrow I will send a convoy to Acropolis to retreive the General and return him to the Egyrian positions southeast of the city.

General Hadrianus will not be harmed. No Egyrian forces will be attacked in any way, shape, or form at any time during this crisis.

That is all.
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Catholic Europe
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Private and encrypted

To: Queen Chloe
From: Pope John XXV

My daughter, I demand to know why you have not publicly called for the departure of the Egyrian forces. They have acted unilaterally and, quite obviously, seek to undermine the very genuine Catholic faith of you and your citizens.

Neo-Macedonia has been for some time now a wholly and good Catholic nation. Your rule, as I understood from my Cardinals when I acceded to the throne of St. Peter, would consolidate Neo-Macedonia totally. Why has a nation that is so clearly anti-Catholic been allowed to invade - because, my dear daughter, that is what they have done. They have invaded Neo-Macedonia. They will protect Hadrianus. They will kill you and they will kill the Church in Neo-Macedonia.

I strongly advise that rid yourself of this disease before it takes too much of a hold. Call on New Medea and Syawla, and maybe South Africa, to help you get rid of this disease, otherwise I may be forced to cut the disease off before it can attack the rest of the Church.

This is a warning to you. Your failures have caused this to happen. God will punish you much worse than this though should you fail totally and in your failures your citizens, true and innocent Catholics, will be punished as well. I suggest you deal with this quickly and efficiently.
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Catholic Europe
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OOC: I don't understand the problem here. Neo-Macedonia has been a devoutly Catholic nation for some months now. Surely, it is Egyria and CENTO who are interfering. Catholic Europe, on the other hand, has not even sent one Soldier to support the Catholics.
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
Catholic Europe
Dec 5 2005, 08:54 AM
OOC: I don't understand the problem here. Neo-Macedonia has been a devoutly Catholic nation for some months now. Surely, it is Egyria and CENTO who are interfering. Catholic Europe, on the other hand, has not even sent one Soldier to support the Catholics.

OOC: You're technically right - this is just political maneuvering.
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Catholic Europe
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
Dec 5 2005, 11:01 AM
OOC: You're technically right - this is just political maneuvering.

Well, if it is planned to hurt the Church, it won't. The Chruch survived long enough in isolation and it can do it again if it need too.
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Noriega
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Private Transmision

to:Sheik Saddam bin Mohammed

from: Emperor Galerius Quintilianus

I am wondering why Egyrian forces have landed in Neo-Macedonia. This Civil War is almost over. Egyrian intervention is unecessary and unwanted. It seems to me as if you are taking advantage of the plight of the Neo-Macedonians in order to fight Catholic influence in Africa. This is unacceptable and an outrage. I shall give you the benefit of the doubt if you withdraw now. I have no quarrel with Egyria or the Islamic Religion(of course a lie). I ask you as a fellow leader to spare the innocent Neo-Macedonians of even more war by leaving at once. At this time, Norightsian/Catholic forces in Acropolis have been ordered to fire upon any Egyrian who attempts to enter the city. Be reasonable, and warned.

--Emperor Galerius

OOC: The Norightsian forces in Neo-Macedonia are small and weak: without armour or air support. They also have meager artillery. While they outnumber the Egyrians, they are made up mostly of Neo-Macedonian civilians and Cote D'Ivoiran Mercs. However, the Emperor will send in combat Legions if Egryia does not leave.
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Noriega
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Private Transmission

to: Queen Chloe

from: Emperor Galerius I Quintilianus

Stand strong. God and Norightsia will protect you.
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Catholic Europe
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Norightsia
Dec 5 2005, 06:45 PM
Private Transmission

to: Queen Chloe

from: Emperor Galerius I Quintilianus

Stand strong. God and Norightsia will protect you.

OOC: I like that, it's more conciliatory than the Pope!
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Noriega
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Catholic Europe
Dec 5 2005, 07:19 PM
Norightsia
Dec 5 2005, 06:45 PM
Private Transmission

to: Queen Chloe

from: Emperor Galerius I Quintilianus

Stand strong. God and Norightsia will protect you.

OOC: I like that, it's more conciliatory than the Pope!

Yes, but unfinished...
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
OOC: I asked NeoRome if he wanted the Egyrian forces to be attacked or not, but it looks like they will be anyway.

IC:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

The convoy entered the city at 1:39PM.

Although they had received orders to shoot, the Catholic soldiers held back - scores of civilian protestors were in the way.

Not all of them were peaceful, or even Catholic. A group calling themselves "Sunnis against Saddam" had shown up from out of nowhere to join in the chaos.

Posted Image

Five AIFV armored fighting vehicles - each carrying seven soldiers and 10 OT-64C(1) armored personnel carriers - each carrying 15 - formed the Egyrian convoy.

From overhead came a lone Mi-8 "Hip" transport, also moving for Hadrianus.

Posted Image

The streets were clogged with people but local police, trying to get them out of fucking harm's way, managed to clear out enough so the convoy could creep along until they finally reached the compound where Hadrianus was located.

Posted Image

The Catholic soldiers figured that their first priority was to get everyone out of the way - many stubbornly refused - so the Egyrian's were able to enter the compound. Soldiers pounced out of their vehicles quickly and stormed the building, while the Mi-8 landed on the roof and deployeda pair of snipers and 5 soldiers who also moved in on Hadrianus.

Finally there was gunfire - inside the building as the Egyrians secured Hadrianus.

***

"FLASH OUT!"

BOOMF!

"MOVE IN!"

"GOT A - TANGO DOWN!"

"SEARCH THE CORRIDORS!"

"CLEAR!"

"CLEAR!"

"CLEAR!"

"Here, put this on General."

***

Finally the Egyrians who had entered the building sprinted outside, shielding their Kevlar-vested target with their bodies. The snipers jumped back on the Mi-8 and, being the easiest target, the 'copter began to head back to base.

The tension was too great, though.

"RPG!"

"FOR QUEEN AND COUNTRY!"

"FIRE AT WILL FIRE AT WILL!"

"HEATHEN SCUM!"

In an instant the entire city was in an uproar. The Catholic soldiers, the Sunnis against Saddam, random civilians - they all suddenly attacked the Egyrian convoy.

"GET HIM! GET HADRIANUS!"

"MOVE OUT MOVE OUT NOW!"

The loud booming of the AIFV 25mm cannons did little to scatter the crazed Catholics, who saw the heathen Egyrians as the literal spawn of Satan. Machine gun fire zipped across the the street as neither side showed any mercy.

Then came the screaming as the citizens of Acropolis realized that war wasn't just about fighting in the name of God.

Eventually the civilians began to disperse, dragging the bodies of their relatives with them. Some of the more fanatical continued to fight along the Papal soldiers, but, lacking armored support, the Egyrian convoy was able to gradually creep out of the city.

Two of the APC's were crippled and the soldiers had to haul ass out of them and hop onto the other transports. And then...

"TARGET'S TRANSPORT IS HIT! TARGET'S TRANSPORT IS HIT!"

The AIFV carrying Hadrianus was hit by a good RPG and collapsed. The crippled Egyrian soldiers that had survived came out knowing that they could not be picked up by the other vehicles, which were now flooring it out of the city as the Catholics swarmed the vehicle, oblivious to the rest of the happenings.

So the soldiers shot themselves.

Posted Image

Fire extinguishers finally put out the blaze enough that the bodies could be pulled out.

"Hadrianus! Hadrianus! The tyrant is gone!"

"Praise God!"

"Where's his body? He must be crucified!"

"His body isn't here! HIS BODY ISN'T HERE!"

Because Hadrianus had never been in the AIFV.

He'd traded clothes with a volunteer soldier and had been flown out by the Mi-8, which was already back at Fort Dirkadirkastan.

Posted Image



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Catholic Europe
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Did NRE agree to this? He said that Hadrianus would be burned at the stake.
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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OOC: He told me that in the end he'd prefer the Catholics end up on top... but that he's also pretty flexible.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Taking advantage of thes unstable situation in NeoMacedonia, EMperor Jacob has dispatched about 20,000 soldiers to commence patrols in the disputed areas between NeoMacedonia and South Afria. The soldiers will not shoot anyone unless shot at, and will set up bases in towns on the NeoMacedonian side of the border.

OOC: The current government of S. A. is still extreemly pragmatic and interested in recovering land from NeoMacedonia even though the Catholics are regaining control of NM. Changes in the SA government wil however change in the future.
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

Public Tansmission

To: Sheik Saddam bin Mohammed of the Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
From: Queen Chloe of Neo-Macedonia

I understand your reasons for wanting to help my nation, and I am truly sorry for the loses your nation endure in the name of the civil war. An I am glad that your nation was able to bring the criminals to justice and put them under trial for their actions, it would appear that my nation will not be able to have the same justice be produced.

Understand dear Sheik that you are harboring a criminal of the Kingdom of Neo-Macedonia and until he is returned to our nation we will view you and your nation as an accomplice to our criminal and his crimes. General Hadrianus unlawfully imprisoned me and took control of my nation by impersonating the King himself. I demand that Hadrianus be return to our authorities.

Understand that diplomatic discussions were never an option due to the actions by Hadrianus himself for as you can image it is hard to discuss a problem with someone who keeps you sealed within a cage.

As for my citizens I can assure you that every man who died fighting this civil war did so of his own free will. They did it out of devotion to their God, the one true God which in the end will judge us all. As for the women and children who lost their lives they did so by Hadrianus hands and not my own. He is the criminal, he is the spawn of Satan (spelled it right :lol: ) and he is the one that must be burned at the stake so that his soul may come before his creator to be judged and punished for his crimes against God's children.

I will give your soldiers stationed within my nation 24 hours (til tomorrow are the same time as this post, is posted.) to return Hadrianus to our custody. If he is not, they understand me when I say I have no control over the actions of my people, for they act as God wills them to.
........................................................................
Private and encrypted

To: Pope John XXV
From: Queen Chloe

Truly I have failed not only your excellency, but the church and God himself and for this I can only ask forgiveness.

I assure your holiness that I have not be idle. I have already contacted the evil which has not manifested itself within my shorts and have warned them to leave before the loyal Catholics of this nations rise up against them. I have also asked for the return of the evil General so that he can be punished properly.

I am also going to contact our Catholic brethren to aid me in my time of trail. I am assured that the loyalist of our Catholics will aid me, and I give my most honorable word that I will not fail in this endeavor. I will rid my nation of this plague and I will bring about the rebirth of a strong and power Catholic kingdom.
.................................................................................................
Highly Encrypted Private Transmission

To: Emperor Galerius Quintilianus of Norightsia
Emperor Jean of Syawla
Emperor Jacob of South Africa
From: Queen Chloe of Neo-Macedonia

My Catholic brothers I ask in the name of devoted Catholics everywhere that you send aid to help my nation rid itself of the evil which lay on our shores. They have invaded my nation and have taken into their care our more sought after criminal. Truly time is running out and I cannot allow Hadrianus to escape with the Egyrians. He must be brought to justice here, in the face of God, so that God himself may punish him. Truly my life, and the lives of the devoted Catholics of Neo-Macedonia are in your hands.
..................................................................................................
Private Transmission

To: Deniz Tuzer, President of the Republic of Great Denizistan
From: Queen Chloe

Though I understand your concern I assure you that if CENTO should do anything in this matter, it should aid Neo-Macedonia for we have been wrongly invaded by Egyria and it is they how have taken in a known criminal.

I understand that you only wish for the people of my nation to be safe, and I assure you that our faith provides just that. However, that safety will always be threaten if Egyria is allowed to leave with the General.

Though we will never join, we respect CENTO and all it wished to do for the African people. We respect Denizistan for though it may be misguided it does do much for the well being of it's people and of Africa. It is out of that respect that we ask Denizistan to look away and no concern itself with us. I assure you that through the grace and power of God, we will survive and we will regain our freedom and peace.
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Noriega
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Public Address

by: Emperor Galerius I Quintilianus

Some offenses are simply to greivous to allow. Some offenses are uncalled for and unacceptable. Some offenses should cause outrage in every moral soul. The Egyrian invasion of Neo-Macedonia is one of those offenses.

The Sheik tried to force Queen Chloe to accept his "aide", but he was summarily rejected on the basis of his obvious treachery. He honors the criminal Hadrianus as a hero! He claims that he should be spared! All this under the pretext of helping Neo-Macedonia!

This unprecedented an intolerable act of pure malevolence cost innocent civilians of Acropolis their lives. The Egyrian soldiers slaughtered women and children in a blind and primitive rush to flee with their prize. Look! Gaze upon the evil that has been committed!

*the screen changes and becomes a still photo of the palace square in Acropolis. dead civilians lay everywhere.*

Do you see!? Egyria has sent its race of cowards to slaughter civilians and save criminals and heretics! Look!

*He literally screams the last syllable. He is obviously enraged. The screen then turns to a video clip of a Neo-Maceondian man*

"The Egyrians came in without warning. Our soldiers did not fire because they were trying to keep us out of danger. Then the Egyrians broke into the Palace. They killed the guards and ran off with Hadri...*breaking down* s..sorry, I cannot bear to say his name. They ran off with the evil...*angrily* heathen! They got in their APCs and shot into the crowd to make a path. They slaughtered everyone, even those who did not oppose them! They killed my mother! They killed my son! My mother was just weaving on the balcnoy when they fired their machine guns into my house! They did it without reason! They are heretics! All Egyrian soldiers had better leave my homeland now! Or I will kill them myself!"

*back to GQ*

I am not easily angered. Wrath is a deadly sin. But I am filled with hatred when I see that footage. How could a race of people claiming to serve God, though misguidedly, be so heartless and cruel!? How!? Humanity has reached its low point in these Egyrians. Even their own faithful do not support them. Look!

*The screen changes to a video clip of a masked man in front of a large bannerbeing held by similar men. He is holding an AK47. The banner reads in Arabic: "Sunnis against Saddam" The man begins talking in Arabic. A voice translates:

"Saddam is a persecuter! He has murdered my people in Egypt and in Syria! He is not a Muslim! He does not follow the Koran! Allah does not look favorably upon him! And Allah is all-mighty! Allah repays violence done to his people! Saddam is a coward who uses Islam to kill my people! He is a traitor to Islam! Do not trust him! He has murdered the Jesus-worshipers today! Yesterday he murdered true Muslims! Tommorow he will also kill! Will he kill you? Rise up, people of the world. Rise up for your God against the traitor and demon, Saddam!"

*back to GQ*

Do you hear!? This is not a war of religion! It is a war on tyranny and oppression! Muslims and Christians died side by side in defiance of the evils of Egyria! People of the world unite! Unite against Egyria! The Pope calls you! Queen Chloe calls you! The Imams of the Sunnis call you! Who will refuse!? Defend Neo-Macedonia and defend humanity! Fight against Egyria and fight against evil! I shall lead that fight! Norightsia will go to war against Egyria if they do not immediately return Hadrianus, depart from Neo-Macedonia, pay 1 billion $ US as restitution to the people of Acropolis, and surrender the War Criminal Saddam to be executed.
*fade to black*

Private Transmission

to: Her Majesty, Chloe, Queen of the Neo-Macedonians

from: Emperor Galerius I Quintilianus

I am, as always, at your service. Should your homeland again become unsafe, I grant you full asylum in Asia. Just a formality of course, that Egyria cannot touch you. Norightsia will not stop until Egyria's fleet cannot be seen from your shores.

Private Transmission

to: His Holiness, The Pope, John XXV

from: a lowly servant in exile, Galerius I of Asia

My father, I fear for the faithful in Neo-Macedonia. I fear there will be much killing in Africa yet again. I can hardly beat to see one more faithful servant of your Church die. Give me guidance Holy Father, that I may do God's work.

End Transmission

The Norightsian soldiers in Acropolis did not let the bodies of the slain Ehyrians be buried. Instead, they took them out and fed them to the vultures, a symbol of the devil. They then poured snake ashes on them to increase the dihonor, and finally broke every single one of their bones and threw them into a latrine. Never did they even remotely consider crucifying them. Crucifixtion was an honor, meant only for martyrs. Many prisoners in Norightsia requested it, but there is no recorded acceptance of any of these requests. The Egyrians were forced to be disposed of as trash and waste; in Norightsia, the highest dishonor and disgrace.
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
The wishes of the Catholics would indeed be fulfilled - the Egyrians evacuated Neo-Macedonia and sailed for Egyria.

Of course, with Hadrianus with them.

***

Alexandria, Egyria

"Oh thank you, thank you, you are so kind..."

"Quiet you fool. You are being granted political asylum, nothing more."

"My brave, great, noble Sheik... bless you..."

"Do not think that Egyria will protect you forever. When you face an inquiry, you will be judged - and I've studied international law, Mr. Hadrianus, so believe you me, you have virtually no case."

***

"This isn't good, Saddam. The entire Catholic world is in an uproar over this issue."

"One billion US in reparations? Who are they kidding?"

"They want to execute Saddam, even better..."

"Silence. Let me think a moment."

The Council of Ministers waited for their Sheik's reply.

"What we have here, gentlemen, is a situation blown out of proportion. General Hadrianus must be tried - but he must be tried fairly."

"But who will stand by us? The Dawnsians have that silly pact, Wadj accepts Papal military aid... Patrua is gone and knowing them they'd complain that we were moving in on their turf anyway..."

"It is to Paradise that we must turn."

"But my Sheik, the Paradisians are unpredictable! They could-"

"Take on the Catholic world if necessary - and I fear it may well be necessary. Omar, I want you to send a message to the Paradisians. Farah... put all systems on the alert."

"Yes, my Sheik."

***

SECURE LINE 3174178-D21

TO: Paradisian Government
FROM: Chief Ambassador Omar ibn Zaid, Egyrian Minister of Diplomacy

As you know, Sheik Saddam bin Mohammed has granted the Neo-Macedonian General-King Marcus Hadrianus political asylum. He has done this to ensure that the man faces a fair and unbiased inquiry and trial - which he would not receive from the Catholics - but, predictably, the Papal nations are overreacting - dangerously so.

Will you help guarantee General Hadrianus' asylum so that justice is served?

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Catholic Europe
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OOC: I need to consider my actions very carefully here. Unfortunately some people have messed up my plans (and, it's not the usual suspects totally). I am not ready to lose everything in a war with Paradise. I will refuse to go to war with Paradise, simply because we have had such good relations with them in the past.

IC:

Highly Secure and Encrypted Telegram

To: Queen Cloe of Neo-Macedonia
Emperor Galerius I of Norightsia
Emperor Jean of Syawla
Emperor Jacob of South Africa

My sons and daughter, Egyria truely is the spawn of Satan. That nation has, in the past, repeatedly condemned and threatened the Catholic world if they even thought about interfering in another states business, and yet, they have invaded Neo-Macedonia, killing, no slaughtering innocent children, raping them when dead. They will truely face the wrath of God and the children shall be praised as martyrs ever more.

However, I warn you to be careful. I must consolidate my arrangements with other nations first before any action can be taken. Catholic Europe is herself, faced with three diseases, 3 threats and we can not tolerate anymore or an escalation of anyone of these threats for otherwise the Body is in peril of dying. That is the reality of the situation that we are in.

I will write you when I have come to my conclusion and have finished my dialogue with other nations. Until then, I ask that you remain high on alert and punish all those who aided the Egyrians.

Private and Secure Telegram

To: Sheikh Saddam bin Mohammed of Egyria
From: His Holiness, Pope John XXV

I am willing for you to trial Hadrianus, if you agree, once the verdict has been given, to hand him over to the Catholic authorities in any Holy League nation to be executed according to our customs.

I am not stupid and have read up on your 'international' law and I expect that, what you claim will be a fair and unbiased trial, the verdict will be guilty. I will be most angry if you find him not guilty despite his treason, which you know all about.

This is my only compromise and I will not tolerate a slap in the face.
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Rhadamanthus
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So the Pope's already prejudged him? Eh.
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Catholic Europe
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The Resplendent Dawn
Dec 6 2005, 09:47 AM
So the Pope's already prejudged him? Eh.

Prejudged who? Hadrianus?

Well of course he has obviously prejudged him, even without the necessary evidence that convicts Hadrianus of his crimes (namely treason). Like Saddam says, Hadrianus is guilty as sin and the Pope expects that, if international law is followed he will be found guilty. Therefore, as a compromise the Pope is going to allow the Egyrians or non-Catholics to trial him as long as they allow him or another Catholic nation to execute him - i.e: to burn him at the stake.
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Tristan da Cunha
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The South African government will not be able to asist Chloe without a satisfactory resolution of the occupied territories issue.

-The Imperial Court

---

Secured message

To: THe Egyrian Government
From: Emperor Jacob of South Africa

South Africa is willing to host Gen. Hadrianus. Even though it is obvious he is guilty of treason, we will give him a trial that conforms to the due process of international law, instead of the Inquisition. Afterwards he may live out his life in confinement, although humane confinement. In this way the interests of all sides will be satisfied.
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Catholic Europe
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OOC: The Pope is going to be very annoyed at Emperor Jacob for this. I may excommunicate him and crown Cardinal Prince John as Emperor instead.
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Rhadamanthus
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OOC:

Um, does nobody here believe in innocent until proven guilty? I might have to stir up some trouble with my nation in Africa...
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NRE
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The Resplendent Dawn
Dec 6 2005, 12:38 PM
OOC:

Um, does nobody here believe in innocent until proven guilty? I might have to stir up some trouble with my nation in Africa...

But it's obvious that Hadrianus is guilty. He denied the rightful ruler of Neo-Macedonia to well....rule! That's treason and on top of that he used the civil war (which in some instances only escalated because this) to oppress a religious organization within NM, namely the Catholics.
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Rhadamanthus
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TheNeoRomanEmpire
Dec 6 2005, 02:42 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Dec 6 2005, 12:38 PM
OOC:

Um, does nobody here believe in innocent until proven guilty?  I might have to stir up some trouble with my nation in Africa...

But it's obvious that Hadrianus is guilty. He denied the rightful ruler of Neo-Macedonia to well....rule! That's treason and on top of that he used the civil war (which in some instances only escalated because this) to oppress a religious organization within NM, namely the Catholics.

But they are talking about a trial! If he's obviously guilty in everybody's eyes, then it is illogical to have a trial. Its only logical to have trial if he can be found either guilty or innocent. If its already decided, than there is no point in having a trial, and he ought to just be punished.

Now its one thing for people to believe that he is guilty, and act on that premise. However, if they want to have a show trial, shouldn't they at least pretend he could be not guilty?

Also,
Firefox doesn't seem to handle the italics and other buttons in the post form properly. If I highlight a word and open click the 'I' button, it doesn't put tags around that word, like it did with IE. It only puts an open tag (or a closing tag if you hit the button again) at the end of your text, as if you were not highlighting the word at all.
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NRE
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The Resplendent Dawn
Dec 6 2005, 12:49 PM
TheNeoRomanEmpire
Dec 6 2005, 02:42 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Dec 6 2005, 12:38 PM
OOC:

Um, does nobody here believe in innocent until proven guilty?  I might have to stir up some trouble with my nation in Africa...

But it's obvious that Hadrianus is guilty. He denied the rightful ruler of Neo-Macedonia to well....rule! That's treason and on top of that he used the civil war (which in some instances only escalated because this) to oppress a religious organization within NM, namely the Catholics.

But they are talking about a trial! If he's obviously guilty in everybody's eyes, then it is illogical to have a trial. Its only logical to have trial if he can be found either guilty or innocent. If its already decided, than there is no point in having a trial, and he ought to just be punished.

Now its one thing for people to believe that he is guilty, and act on that premise. However, if they want to have a show trial, shouldn't they at least pretend he could be not guilty?

Also,
Firefox doesn't seem to handle the italics and other buttons in the post form properly. If I highlight a word and open click the 'I' button, it doesn't put tags around that word, like it did with IE. It only puts an open tag (or a closing tag if you hit the button again) at the end of your text, as if you were not highlighting the word at all.

ahhh I see your point now, nevermind I completely mistook what your point was :P

As for the firefox thing, I dunno, don't use it.
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