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South African War Archive
Topic Started: May 28 2005, 01:27 PM (1,702 Views)
Menhad
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ET2(IDW)
do not fret
*the south african force suffer endless raids by the scottish raiders and the morale drops*
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
Menhad
Jun 2 2005, 09:32 PM
do not fret
*the south african force suffer endless raids by the scottish raiders and the morale drops*

((You wanted to learn how to do war Menhad? Well, read the other posts and compare it to yours. More than a sentence please. And sorry if that comes out mean))
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Syawla
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Pleasuring a cucumber with butter
 *  *  *  *  *  *
Jean Lee stared at the wall. 3.42. The endless ticking from the clock had forced him to finally give in to anxiety and find out just how long into the morning the ruling council had been in deliberation. This was nothing new to him. Jean had been there when this same body had voted unanimously for the execution of General Le Bon and his wife Fadijah. Jean had been there when he had been placed in charge of shutting down all of the religious institutions in the country and that decision was made as dawn rapidly approached. This however was different. Jean knew this. This regime, was on its last long mile. Soon elections for the Senate would take place and the people would truly be in charge of Syawlan affairs again. This same body that General Le Bon had set up merely to give his regime a crumb of legitimacy would soon be the heart of government. And Jean could not wait, for no decision he made was ever easy. It wasn't that he was indecisive, more that he was always worried about whether he had mis-judged the consequences of his actions. Soon it would be over though, despite the recommendations of his friends that he should stand in the elections, this was not a fun job. For he was waiting on the decision of his fellow councillors.Their endless chatting droned on around him. The proposal had been his and here it was being discussed: a full-scale Syawlan invasion of South Africa. Then he emerged from his intellectual activity to see all eyes upon him, and the former lawyer Antoine Delasque uttered the phrase he had hoped never to hear. "Jean le fait." (Jean do it)
So, it was that he now had a war to run.
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Catholic Europe
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I urge the nations participating in this military effort against South Africa and their evil government to exercise caution, forgiveness and to try their best to refrain from killing and hurting as much as possible.

You must not forget that God will ultimately punish them for their evil and you must not become God yourself when attacking South Africa, for it can have dire and evil consequences, killing millions and wounding many millions more.

Catholic Europe has suffered such a fate and we have a cause, from God, to ensure that his children are not hurt like that again.

Pope Benedict XVII
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Menhad
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
Jun 2 2005, 11:51 PM
Menhad
Jun 2 2005, 09:32 PM
do not fret
*the south african force suffer endless raids by the scottish raiders and the morale drops*

((You wanted to learn how to do war Menhad? Well, read the other posts and compare it to yours. More than a sentence please. And sorry if that comes out mean))

it fine
no harm there
any way i'll tyr better
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Syawla
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 *  *  *  *  *  *
Syawlan troops have succesfully destroyed or captured enemy troop positions in the immediate vicinity of the border between our two nations. Our advance has halted briefly in order to enable essential logistical support units to deploy but our course is set and our action just. Some 100 prisoners were taken on this the first full day of the invasion.
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Comrade Queen
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President Jiran Hjork of the Communist Republic of Yshurak was appalled by the actions taken by South Africa after reading the bullitin about it at his desk today. He was quoted by saying: "How dare they take advantage of the black proletariat like that!"

Nevertheless, the president ordered a fleet of 40 naval vessels to be dispatched to South Africa where they will lay seige to its capital with bombing raids. Because of the distance to be traveled between Yshurak and South Africa, it will take many weeks for the Communist Republic's battleships and aircraft carriers to arrive. President Jiran Hjork also demands South Africa's immediate surrender.
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Al Araam
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The last of the Imperial Army divisions have rolled off of the landing crafts. The Armor Divisions have been deployed to guard highways, freeways and any other large roadways leading in to Acropolis. The Infantry Divisions have fanned out across the periphery of Acropolis and fortified the buildings in their sector to meet their needs.

A few miles off shore the two Aircraft Carriers of Akam De, the "Bayadh" and the "Souk Ahras", have had fighters in the air constantly over Acropolis to maintain air superiority. There have been some dogfights with South African warplanes but few casualties on either side. Between the fighter aircraft, and ground based anti-aircraft weapons, mostly shoulder fired missiles but also some air defense vehicles, Acropolis stands well defended against air raids.

The 3rd Artillery Division of the Imperial Army is assembling in preparation to board landing crafts. This division includes conventional artillery as well as GMLRS multi-purpose rocket launch platforms and additional air defense vehicles. They are scheduled to arrive in Arcopolis over the next 36 hours.
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Syawla
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 *  *  *  *  *  *
Syawlan troops have announced that they have captured a number of towns in the northern-most region of South Africa. As yet, resistance has been minimal as we expect all South African troops are in fact committed to fighting in Neo-Macedonia. Our advance has halted as we await instruction from our allies in the UN on what steps we should next take.
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Malagassia
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In a dashing air raid, the first of many and dealing a serious psychological blow to the South African invasion force, the combined air forces took out AA positions, government buildings, communication posts and two power plants in the South African capital. Cruise missiles, high altitude bombers laden with precision ammo and swift fighter-bomber jets were responsible for the complete black-out of the city, causing panic and chaos in early evening, when the raid occurred. Reports say that four of the dozens of planes involved were lost but on the other hand, the South Africa military headquarters is reported as hit. Early in the morning after the raid, the UN consolidated its presence in the Neo-Macedonian capital which has now been fully secured and continued its advance to the east, pushing forward the outnumbered and outgunned South African troops. The UN Command has invited liaisons from other nations so they can coordinate their attacks with the UN as to prevent "friendly fire" incidents and to maximize the effects on the South African forces.
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Syawla
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 *  *  *  *  *  *
Syawlan troops pressed the advantage of circumstance by marching 50 miles further into South African territory. A few army reserve divisions were met and dealt with decisively by our armed forces which have at present decided to refrain from taking prisoners in an attempt to weaken the morale of the enemy. Our forces are now within field artillery range of the enemy capital and will commence firing upon it within the next 36 hours.

A statement from the Syawlan Ruling Council
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Tristan da Cunha
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The counterattack against the Syawlan incursion into Transvaal came as 30 divisions of the South African regular army, 22 divisions of reservists, 102 divisions of conscripts, and 52,000 Rhodesian guerillas struck against the Syawlan forces. Heavy fighting occurred along the border between South Africa and Syawla; the initial Syawlan advance was pushed back about 30 miles in a lightning quick advance of South African mechanized infantry before a front congealed out of the confused fighting. Thousands from boths sides died in just a few days of ferocious combat and destruction. Hundreds of fighters shrieked through the sky every hour to do battle against the Syawlans and Malagassians; dogfights claimed heavy casualties on both sides. Meanwhile, a South Afircan bombing raid against Malagassian ports successfully damaged a tanker port and petroleum refinery complex in southern Malagassia. Black smoke and noxious fumes from the refinery fire could be seen through much of southern Africa as a westerly wind blew across the continent.

In Pretoria the Malagassian air raid killed hundreds of civilians as the government attempted to calm the populace down. President DeBruin daily exhorts the people of South Africa to sacrifice for victory; a general draft has been called on males from the age of 17 to 30 and factories are furiously producign vast quantities of weapons and war supplies.

In the front against Neo-Macedonia, the coalition was firmly entrenched around Acropolis, holding a perimeter around the large coastal cities of the Cape. Both sides waited tensely for a full scale battle as reinforcements of reservists and conscripts made their ways to the front.
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Patrua
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OOC.
I've moved this thread to the War and Negotiation Forum as I had a sneaking suspicion of this being a war.

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Syawla
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 *  *  *  *  *  *
In response to the South African counter-attack, conscription has been enabled by the ruling council of Syawla, with a target of some 316,700 extra conscriptec troops being set by the council with the prospect of more to follow. A further 150,000 troops from the already called up reserves have been moved into Transvaal area in order to protect Syawla's gains in the region. Meanwhile, Syawlan aircraft have been strategically hitting the front-line positions of the South African army, keeping their forced still while strategy is enacted and the reservists put in place.

Once more, the Syawlan Senatorial elections have been postponed in order to enable all of Syawla's efforts to be aimed at the conduct of the war.
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Comrade Queen
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The Yshurakan naval forces continue to steadily approach the shores of South Africa. Several more days and the ships will arrive to begin their bombing raids on South Africa's capital. The president of the distant European nation gave the South African government one more chance to surrender before Yshurak's forces will lay waste to their country.
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Malagassia
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The UN coalition today targeted South Africa's air force, after it somehow managed to dodge the Malagassian fleet, radars and air patrols and raided the Malagassian coast. However, this raid came at a terrible cost for the South African air force as the entire attacking force, which was sizaeable in order to have penetrate all the defenses, was downed. In between a fourth and a third of the South African air force is reported as lost. This to happen again is inconceivable though, as the air is now permanently watched and patrolled by what is after all, the second biggest military machine in the African Continent. As punishment, a devastating raid destroyed about half of the South African air force in dodge fights, bombings and strafings. The remainder of their air force is now in between 15% and 25%. On the ground too, the entire UN force has now moved into action and has steamrolled the South African forces in between the capital and the South African border. Their conquest has now been undone, only South African territory lies no in front of the UN force and their allies.
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Syawla
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Despite the desperate successes achieved by South African military forces against us, our forces have today fared better retrieving 30% of the ground lost in yesterday's counter-attack and are now only 37km away from being back in firing range of the South African capital again. However our nation, being substantially smaller than South Africa, will only proceed further on the assurance of a simultaneous allied attack into the southern territories of South Africa from the direction of Neo-Macedonia, in order to avoid a repeat of the losses encountered yesterday. 13,527 square miles of the northern-most territory that we now control has been granted by the ruling council to the people of Syawla as reward for our efforts, and with the people in this area predominantly speaking Syawlan French as opposed to the Afrikaan of the majority of South Africa, we feel that this is the best solution for a peaceful and viable South African future.

A statement from the Syawlan Ruling Council
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Tristan da Cunha
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Gen. Fredrik Paul van Haan, supreme commander of the South African army on the Cape front, gave orders for an all-out assault on Acropolis, the capital of Neo-Macedonia. About 5,000,000 South African soldiers, mostly boys conscripted and hastily thrown into battle, advanced into the Acropolis perimeter, penetrating the suburbs in tough street fighting with determined Neo-Macedonian guerillas and enemy coalition forces. Covered from the air by hundreds of jets and from the rear by powerful rail-borne artillery guns, the South Africans were in high spirits, moving block by block and street by street in the densely populated urban area. However, the heavy casualties, from both sides, which piled high in the shattered streets of Acropolis, warned that the fight was not to be easy and not over yet. Skyscrapers and homes were gutted by bombing and fighting and every hour more grim rubble filled the city, bleached by the bright Cape sun. The final push against Acropolis would make or break the entire South African campaign against Neo-Macedonia; a victory would eradicate the Neo-Macedonian nation from existence while a defeat would likely eradicate the South African army in the west and lay the wide open kraal defenseless against counterattack.

---

The Mozambique Channel was a graveyard for aicraft as the South African forces, the largest in Africa, battled the Malagassians, Africa's second largest force. Day and night dive-bombers and fighters taking off from Transvaal and Madagascar plied the fierce winds above the Indian Ocean, seeking each other to kill, discharging millions of rounds of high caliber ammunition and tens of thousands of tons of explosives against enemy planes, ships, and coastal infrastructure. Appalling casualties were counted by both sides in perhaps the largest air battle in the history of warfare; within a few weeks, thousands of skilled pilots were lost forever in the waves although some found their ways to safety in either South Africa or Malagassia.

---

In the north about 4,000,000 South African soldiers and an equal number of Syawlans were locked in a 390-mile wide front of battle which ebbed and flowed by a few miles at a time, each gain or loss costing thousands of lives on both sides. Guerillas and partisans operated in a much larger battlefield stretching from south of Pretoria all the way to Ivoj Nob, capital of Syawla. Black partisans and a few whites, mostly some French-speaking settlers, sabotaged South African supply routes and raided South African troops. White English-speaking Rhodesian farmers and Dutch-speaking Boer ranchers took up arms as saboteurs behind Syawlan lines.
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Patrua
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Trilateral Commission
Jun 8 2005, 01:14 PM
The Mozambique Channel was a graveyard for aicraft as the South African forces, the largest in Africa, battled the Malagassians, Africa's second largest force.

OOC.
Patrua is the largest force in Africa, Malagassia is second, Che Brisio or Ruanda-Urundi is third. South Africa limps far behind on Malagassia in military force as far as I know (I don't know what arrangements you have with Malagassia though).

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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
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The Holy Prussian Empire
Patrua
Jun 8 2005, 02:41 PM
Trilateral Commission
Jun 8 2005, 01:14 PM
The Mozambique Channel was a graveyard for aicraft as the South African forces, the largest in Africa, battled the Malagassians, Africa's second largest force.

OOC.
Patrua is the largest force in Africa, Malagassia is second, Che Brisio or Ruanda-Urundi is third. South Africa limps far behind on Malagassia in military force as far as I know (I don't know what arrangements you have with Malagassia though).

OOC: Are you referring to those just fighting or just a general military size?
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Patrua
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The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria
Jun 8 2005, 04:48 PM

OOC: Are you referring to those just fighting or just a general military size?

In overall strength, if you use size of the nation and the potential army: Malagassia is stronger. If you refer to NS's military ranking, Malagassia is stronger. If you refer to posted military size, then Malagassia may not be as big in numbers, like Patrua but then its skill, equipment and fighting prowess will undo the military advantage (the small army -> great skill; large army -> poor skill rule). Those are the rules, unless you can agree on the opposite (like the War of Succession in which Catholic EUrope agreed to being defeated), the larger nation has the advantage.

Since he was attacking Malagassia directly, I can assume it's the whole of the Malagassian army, so general military size and those fighting.
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Tristan da Cunha
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I recall Antebellum South is ranked higher than Malagassia in the UN charts in terms of military related listings. We are about ~150th in the world for armed forces per capita, ~150th in the world for arms manufacturing, ~200th for manufacturing sector, ~250th for information technology, and ~300th for police forces per capita, all of which is higher than Malagassia IIRC. I don't really know what is meant by "fighting prowess" and "skill" because personally I think the sheer firepower delivered by modern weapons nullifies nearly all advantages tactical nuance could give, and real life armies rely on field tactics only because they are not allowed to use their gadgets in the most lethal ways. Deploying modern warfare's conventional weaponry to its fullest extent - for example, carpet bombing Baghdad or blowing up the Three Gorges Dam - would be called "war crimes" and then you'd have a PR disaster. Obviously the South African government I have RPed couldn't care less about human rights groups' complaints. Antebellum South is ranked very high in the world for stupidity and devoutness, so maybe these soldiers have "fighting prowess" in the sense they are easily manipulated and very willing to fight and die on the battlefield. These attributes would make Paradise's army ungodly fearsome, since he is ranked in the world's top 30 or so for just about everything a commander would want - fanatically religious soldiers, huge weapons industry, giant police force to control the civilian population, not to mention biggest military poppulation in the world. It's a garrison state just like Sparta, except with 5 billion people.

Anyways, back to the matter at hand, for all the massive carnage South Africa will lose the war anyways, but the territorial redrawings, rebellions, and other partitions in the map of southern Africa will make for interesting RP eventually.
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Patrua
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Jun 8 2005, 07:10 PM
I don't really know what is meant by "fighting prowess" and "skill" because personally I think the sheer firepower delivered by modern weapons nullifies nearly all advantages tactical nuance could give, and real life armies rely on field tactics only because they are not allowed to use their gadgets in the most lethal ways.

"Fighting prowess" or "skill" is what is used to explain why nations with a 5 billion population and a reasonable army of 600,000 can beat nations of 400 million and an army of 2,000,000 in the UN's military charts. This is also why they would kick ass if invaded, even though theoretically being outnumbered. It is what gave 500 Spartans the edge over 200,000 Persians at Thermopylae, 500 Maltese knights against thousands of Turkish invaders, tens of thousands of puny Belgians against a massive German invasion army of one million at near Ypres, the small and badly equipped Finnish army against the massive and better equipped millions of Russian soldiers in 1938. The deprived citizens and soldiers at Leningrad against an entire well-equipped German army for 900 days...

Trilateral Commission
Jun 8 2005, 07:10 PM
Antebellum South is ranked very high in the world for stupidity and devoutness, so maybe these soldiers have "fighting prowess" in the sense they are easily manipulated and very willing to fight and die on the battlefield.

That's the issue I highlighted elsewhere. Stupidity is not a problem for your ordinary grunt, might even be a plus. But as soon as you get to the Sergeant level and higher, then it spells doom for your armies. An intelligently commanded army can be a hard plus. Look at Rommel and his Africa Corps or Napoleon or Julius Caesar. They all depended on great strategic skills. Not in using muscle. For Paradise, it may work because he's got more soldiers than there are bullets in my army, but stupid commanders don't make for a great army, you'd just get the Stalin effect.
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Comrade Queen
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OOC: Speaking of Josef Stalin.....

IC:

South Africa had completely ignored President Jiran Horembolg's demands for surrender. Since South Africa was not backing away from its invasion of Neo-Macedonia, the Communist Republic of Yshurak had to flex its muscles. Just inside of South African international waters after many weeks of sailing, Yshurak's 40 battleships and aircraft carriers were ready to commence bombarding the capital with missiles and bombs.

Guided missiles were fired from the ships to take out what remained of the military defenses in Pretoria. MiG bombers were scrambled from the aircraft carriers and began bombing raids of the city. With the African nations preoccupying most of South Africa's military elsewhere, the Yshurak naval forces felt they had little to worry about in effect of retaliation.
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Tristan da Cunha
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Quote:
 
"Fighting prowess" or "skill" is what is used to explain why nations with a 5 billion population and a reasonable army of 600,000 can beat nations of 400 million and an army of 2,000,000 in the UN's military charts. This is also why they would kick ass if invaded, even though theoretically being outnumbered. It is what gave 500 Spartans the edge over 200,000 Persians at Thermopylae, 500 Maltese knights against thousands of Turkish invaders, tens of thousands of puny Belgians against a massive German invasion army of one million at near Ypres, the small and badly equipped Finnish army against the massive and better equipped millions of Russian soldiers in 1938. The deprived citizens and soldiers at Leningrad against an entire well-equipped German army for 900 days...

Fighting prowess is a pretty intangible attribute. It isn't as simple as saying one nation has more fighting prowess than another nation. Armies behave differently in different conditions. In 19th century Indochina the wealthy, well-equipped French easily defeated the Vietnamese while in the 20th century the French were easily defeated. Army A might beat Army B in the swamp while Army B beats Army A in a desert. The best we can do is RP various situations realistically. In Leningrad, the fighting prowess of the better side has more to do with courage and determination, not with training. German soldiers and officers were clasically trained and drilled, but were defeated by starving Russians with poor military training and nothing to lose. At Thermopylae and Malta the small forces were highly skilled soldiers who defeated cannon fodder. So this shows there's no definite rule as to what type of country has better soldiers. Furthermore, let us not forget that Thermopylae was a battle won by the Persians who went on to burn down Athens, and the war in Finland was won by the Russians who annexed Karelia.

Quote:
 
That's the issue I highlighted elsewhere. Stupidity is not a problem for your ordinary grunt, might even be a plus. But as soon as you get to the Sergeant level and higher, then it spells doom for your armies. An intelligently commanded army can be a hard plus. Look at Rommel and his Africa Corps or Napoleon or Julius Caesar. They all depended on great strategic skills. Not in using muscle. For Paradise, it may work because he's got more soldiers than there are bullets in my army, but stupid commanders don't make for a great army, you'd just get the Stalin effect.

The effects of national inteligence on battlefield perfomance are difficult to determine. A higher average national intelligence might give the army good officers but lower-quality grunts who are educated and not as susceptible to patriotic propaganda, and not willing to march into living hell on the battlefield just because the government tells them to. Therefore, the army morale is lower and there are more desertions, etc. A lower average national intelligence might give the army dull officers but highly motivated soldiers who never think twice about those questions like "why are we fighting?" and "what do I get out of this war"? It is difficult to quantify what is the optimal balanced intelligence in a nation so that officers are just smart enough but grunts are not too smart. Furthermore, the UN listing of "stupidity" is not as clear-cut as a listing like "highest armed forces per capita." Is stupidity meant by education level? In history, uneducated populations have frequently defeated educated societies in war. For example, the Algerian rebellion defeated France even though the Algerians had on average less formal education than the French. The Vietnamese, who were mostly illiterate peasants, defeated both French and American forces, although French and Americans spend more time in classrooms than the Vietnamese.

These warfare-related techincal issues are hard to resolve. Historically it seems there are no definite rules between "fighting prowess" and inteligence and any other factor and there are way too many intangibles in warfare. personally I think in the modern age, individual fighting prowess is less important and the side with better firepower has a tremendous advantage on the battlefield. In ancient times warfare consisted of tactics, strategy, and maneuvers by infantry or cavalry. But today nations can win wars by annihilating entire enemy cities in a matter of hours. Modern technology can minimize the role of the grunt and maximize the role of a huge-ass explosive, and about the only reason we still have grunts around is because we don't want to commit war crimes by indiscriminately bombing enemies back to the Stone Age, and grunts are the most effective means to achieve an end - victory - within bounds of decency and human rights.
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