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| The 3rd Catholic Council | |
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| Topic Started: May 19 2005, 03:26 PM (822 Views) | |
| Elyk | May 25 2005, 02:55 PM Post #26 |
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Senior commanding officer
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I agree with Xeres. We should have all of the Cardinals in the catholic league vote on a new pope. This way, no influence i from non-cathoolics andthe person to succeed is knowlegable. |
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| Patrua | May 25 2005, 03:00 PM Post #27 |
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"Your Holiness, on which infinite wisdom was bestowed, brothers Cardinals, fellow bishops, Catholic brethren. I appear before you on this holy day to fulfill a destiny which I'd rather not have been fulfilling. But God's ways are unfathomable and His justice infallible so here I am today, ever His humble servant. In an atrocious and vile war, the many enemies of Catholic Europe and Catholicism bounded together in a an infernal attempt to destroy our glorious church. They took a pretext in which His Holiness had taken the right decision to support a man, yet another man who was persecuted for being a Catholic. This is a practice that is paramount throughout the Middle East and the world. Brothers, we are a prey to the blood-thirsty immorals and iconoclasts out there. Athesists, heretics and many others crave to destroy Our House, for they feel threatened by our moral supremacy and our devotion to the Lord Almighty. The petty kings, presidents and assorted worldly leaders cannot hide their frustration to the Catholic denunciation of their supreme power. This and only this is the reason why they founded an unholy alliance bound on exterminating us like mere vermin. They do not hide their disgust for us, we are less than any other. A nuclear bomb! A nuclear bomb! The most destructive and most rogue weapon ever to have been built on this Earth! A nuclear bomb was dropped on the largest population centre of Catholics. This is no coincidence brothers. Many have cried in despondence to Our Lord Saviour: why have you abandoned us? Why did you unleash this nuclear apocalypse onto us? Let us not question God's ways. But let us seek the Why for God's ways always have a reason. They always carry a message. The message embedded here is a strenghtening one from God to us and a stern warning to the infidels dwelling outside our borders. To us, fellow Catholics, the message is twofold. God tells us that we can survive anything, if we do not lose each other. Catholics must work in unison under the divine leadership of the Holy Pontiff. Then they will prevail. The message is in the aftermath, God tells us that his flock cannot be destroyed even if the forces of chaos and darkness use the most powerful of weapons. But God also warns us. Our enemies are plenty and can find each other in their hatred against us. God does not tell us to crawl into the safety of our faith and atone for the sin we are born with. No, He tells us to convert. More, stronger, with more passion because He has shown to what our enemies are capable of as a prelude to Judgement Day. We must be well-prepared not to become the pariahs of this world again. To our enemies, God profesizes a strong warning: no force, not even that of the strongest nations combined, not even if they use their mightiest weapons not even if their resolve is to slaughter all the Catholics they can lay their hands on. Our congregation can be hurt brothers, and God knows it has been. But this catastrophe as our enemies like to boast will only make us stronger. We should not sway to their demands and follow our path instead of giving in to infidel claims. The true successor is one of the glorious family our enemies failed to eradicate, that glorious family that lead us to glory before. The direct descendent lives in the episcopate of the atheist Empire where I guide my people. Prince Gravir will be the seed where out of Lazarus rises. He will be the surviving root spouting the new generations of Holy Monarchs. In this, God shows His power: that the atheist nation that lead an infidel coalition against Catholic Europe will be the cradle of the family that they tried to destroy. God's choice, brothers, lies with Prince Gravir." Cardinal August, spiritual leader of the Patruan Catholic Community |
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| Catholic Europe | May 25 2005, 03:20 PM Post #28 |
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Spammer
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Thankyou for that rousing speech my fellow Cardinal August. It is true, their does remain alive in Prince Gravir the Blood Royal, the requirement for a Pope to be crowned. However, you seem to have forgotton one minor detail in your over enthusiastic and zealous promotion of the Prince's right to the Papal throne - Prince August. Now, not only would it be problematic, at the very least, to think that the Imperial Family of Patrua would allow their own son to become Pope but to think that Catholic Europe and its citizens would allow a Patruan Prince as their ruler is astounding in its absurdity. Prince August however, a second cousin of Prince Gravir and also of the Blood Royal (and descendant of King Fernando II and Queen Matilda of the South), would be a much wiser choice. Not only is he of the Blood Royal, a requirement for accession to the Papacy, but he is fully Catholic European and lives in Catholic Europe. Time is running out, however, and if we make a fatal mistake the Blood Royal could die out completely and this country and the Catholic Church as a whole will be plunged into anarchy and sede vacantism. God willing that will never be allowed to happen. Cardinal Rodrigo |
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| Patrua | May 25 2005, 03:28 PM Post #29 |
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Captain
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"Your words are wise, my colleague. My choice of Prince Gravir was not motivated by nationalist arguments. I merely thought him to be closer in lineage to the last Pope. My promotion of the sibling and yours of a different one, both hold a solid foundation and both can claim succession to the Sede. We might do wise to remember our humility and look at His Holiness for guidance and judgement in our differences. If this is to become a hurdle that would result in a potentially vacant papacy, I shall withdraw my proposal for anarchy and sede vacantism should be avoided at all costs." Cardinal August, spiritual leader of the Patruan Catholic Community |
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| Wadj | May 25 2005, 10:17 PM Post #30 |
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The Very Model of a Modern Major General
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Cardinal von Ehrfurt of Saxe-Coburg rises to speak: "I believe that we need to return to the ancient tradition of the College of Cardinals. Christianity is based upon ideals of equality. How, therefore, can a Pope be hereditary? What makes a member of the Royal family any more suited to be Pope than the poorest beggar on the streets of Dresden? All are equal under God. We must elect our Pope through the College of Cardinals. We must resurrect this ancient tradition in order for our religion to survive. Only through this can we keep the Catholic Church united. What do the other delegates think of this suggestion?" |
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| Catholic Europe | May 26 2005, 04:57 AM Post #31 |
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Spammer
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OOC: That is interesting with regards to the seniority of the Princes - who is more important? Now Prince Gravir is a generation higher than Prince August, i.e: he is a grandson of Queen Matilda whereas Prince August is a great-grandson. Catholic Europe always places emphasis on older generations, which means that an emphasis would be placed on Prince Gravir. However, prince Gravir descends from a female line, whereas Prince August descends down two male lines - King Amadeo II and his brother Prince August. Catholic Europe places emphasis on male lines over female lines so that would mean that emphasis would be placed on Prince August. Age might also play an issue. Pope Benedict XVII is young and thus will most likely have a long reign. Prince August is just entering his teens and could marry and beget heirs whilst Prince Gravir is left to enter the Church and become Pope. But, would Prince August be pleased at his redundant position because he would have no power really. Finally, would the Catholic European people be able to get their heads around a Patruan Pope, even if he is half Catholic European. He would be the first foreign Pope they have ever had. Prince August rules supreme in this respect because he is Catholic European. So, basically, their two claims to the Papal throne are equal. |
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| Catholic Europe | May 26 2005, 05:02 AM Post #32 |
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Spammer
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That's a very good point, Cardinal von Ehrfurt. However, let me teach you a little about Catholic European history for the Pope will not only be our spiritual leader, he will also be ruler of Catholic Europe. Now, originally, the Cardinals were able to choose the Pope. However, this would result, if differences ocur, in anti-popes and anarchy for the Church - that cannot happen again. For Catholic Europe, this would be a disastruous situation for to have a number of people claiming to be the Emperor would ruin the economy amongst other things. Furthermore, lessons from the past have taught us that the Cardinals choosing a Pope can lead us to Civil War - twice. Since the advent of Pope Cristiano V's reforms, Catholic Europe has grown in strength and the country has never been more unified. There have been no domestic problems and the rule of the Royal Pope's has proved that a hereditary system works best. Cardinal Rodrigo |
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| Rhadamanthus | May 26 2005, 11:41 AM Post #33 |
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Legitimist
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Cardinal Maximos speaks: "Hmmm... I hope my motivations are not misinterpreted when I say this. This is not about me personally. I do think that the royal Papacy cannot last. Where there was one succession crisis there will always be another. Better to have the Cardinals elect a Pope. And, here is where I might be misunderstood. Once again it is not about me. I do think an Eastern Catholic Supreme Pontiff would be a great thing. I was nearly martyred in that hotbed of heresy where I preside, and I am still kept on a dangerously short leash. An Eastern Catholic Pope would surely convert legions of Eastern schismatics! A war such as the recent one need never be repeated!" |
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| Patrua | May 26 2005, 03:21 PM Post #34 |
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"Brothers Cardinals, Perhaps you would deign me to highlight another point of some importance. As ever acting on enlightened observance and superb intelligence, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVII -may God bless him- canonized a great martyr of our church: Saint Queen Matilda. She longed and worked actively and with divine zeal and courage to quell the heresy that shamelessly bred at our border. She truly was a woman of God and He has called her with Him now. But she has not left us permanently or completely. Her blood, her holy blood, runs through the vains of another woman of excellent strength and astounding courage. A woman who persevered in her just faith, despite being surrounded by heretics and atheists. Despite being isolated from the divine lands where His Holiness' words are rightfully law. Despite losing almost all of her family in a pernicious war staged by the infidel forces of this region that had been lurking for an opportunity to attack us Catholics and the good lands were true Catholics can live in harmony with themselves and God. Despite lacking the comforting words and arms of a supportive husband. This woman spawned yet another of her Holy blood... a grandchild to the glorious Saint Queen Mary. It would be just to appoint him of such splendid blood to be crowned emperor, for he combines the lineage to the great emperors that nurtured Catholic Europe to its apogee with the blood of the martyred Saint Queen Matilda, who acted as only few would have: bravely, gallantly and godly. Prince Gravir might be only of half blood, but by God, that half truly is daunting in its glory. Let us not stare at his half Patruan descent, brothers. To bar him from the position based on his mixed heritage, would truly be an indignation to the millions of Catholic Patruans. Those who gave heed to the words of their Pope and gave their lives, livelihood and belongings to the Catholic cause, even though they faced an invincible enemy in the state's infernal security forces which castigated them relentlessly. They are the anonymous martyrs everyone has forgotten about but their sacrifice was no less than that of any other Catholic in the struggle we endure. They would appreciate this token recognition as Princess Matilda and Prince Gravir the Younger to them are the public embodiment of the millions of suffering Catholics in Patrua." Cardinal August, spiritual leader of the Patruan Catholic Community |
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| Catholic Europe | May 26 2005, 04:33 PM Post #35 |
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Spammer
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OOC: Just to let you all know that there is a practical reason for hereditary Popes. I have a day (RL) = a year (NS) for the Popes. That means that a Conclave which lasted 3 days (RL) would be equal to 3 years (NS). That just isn't practical and so, with a hereditary Pope, the choice is already made and is, therefore, practical. |
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| Wadj | May 26 2005, 08:58 PM Post #36 |
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The Very Model of a Modern Major General
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Archbishop Zephyrus of Wadj speaks: "We must choose a strong Pope. One who is willing to stand up for the rights of Catholics everywhere, especially after this war. The remaining Catholics in the nations that fought against Catholic Europe are all in real danger. I experience this in Wadj especially. Though discrimination based on faith is illegal in my nation, it happens everyday. We are seen as traitors, as cowards, because we did not fight in a war against our Holy Pontiff. We need a Pope who will be willing to expose these travesties to the world. But we do not need a warlike Pope, for it was a Papal war that got us into this situation. We need a Pope who will support Catholics, not one who will wage war." |
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| Catholic Europe | May 30 2005, 09:48 AM Post #37 |
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With the announcement of His Royal Highness, Prince Augusts betrothal to Princess Kasia of Poland, it would seem likely that the question of who will succeed Pope Benedict XVII has been answered - Prince Gravir of Patrua can really be the only choice because he will become the only person eligible. However, the Holy Father does not and will not name a successor to him, other than to say that they will be of royal blood. Any talk about the succession publicly or in front of His Holiness is banned. |
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| The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria | May 30 2005, 12:19 PM Post #38 |
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The Holy Prussian Empire
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OOC: A Patruan Pope? Whoa |
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| Catholic Europe | May 30 2005, 04:52 PM Post #39 |
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Spammer
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I know! Although, I didn't say that a Patruan Pope would be set in stone.... |
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| Patrua | Jun 7 2005, 05:46 PM Post #40 |
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Captain
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--- A Patruan Press Agency Release --- The Herald Patruan Pontiff Would Heal African Rift Zephyros (PPA) If His Benevolent Majesty, the Glorious Prince of Patrua, Gravir the Younger were to become the new Bishop of Rome, it might benefit the Catholic church as a whole, a study shows. 'Apostle', the organisation of Susanna Menamari that promotes the spread of Catholicism in Patrua and tries to enhance friendly relations between Catholic Europe and Patrua claims that the vast majority of the Patruan schismatics would reconsider their allegiance to the African Pope of Simanu. Defection was most extensive among the black African Catholics of Perugonia and Deso while it did not occur with the Catholics of European descent. The preference for a black Pontiff is considered a side-effect of the recent ethnocentristic and sometimes even secessionist trend that has been assessed in black ethnic communities where poverty and social problems are a plague. The Afronationalist Party that participated in the last elections of the Empire is one byproduct of this ethnocentric discours, their vehement participation in the Catholic uprising prior to the elections another. Both need to be seen as rooted in segregationist moves rather than political or religious manifestations. This showed the more when an African Pope was declared in Simanu and received prompt support by the black African Patruan population. Their aspiration for an African Pope has been a long and unanswered one. A large survey held among the subgroup in question here, gave some interesting results. For starters, any African being the Bishop of Rome would be sure to get the support of the schismatics. Even if He is of white caucasian ethnicity and partly of the Imperial Family of Patrua, exactly the government they rebelled against. "The reason is twofold," Susanna Menamari says, "For one the surveyed group thought the bishop of Rome being of African descent having priority now, as a sign of respect and recognition. The second reason is that they see a Catholic Imperial Family member as closer to them -for sharing the same faith- than the others, which creates a sympathy effect." The fact that these (and other) reasons prevail over others is one surprising assesment. The massive numbers in which they do, is another and more striking one. "The groups in question here, form a close and interdependent social group, in which solidarity and loyality are important tenets. That they vote as a block, is not new. The same effect accounts for the decent result of the AnP in the February elections." The results then. Of the 3,144 surveyed Patruan schismatics, a staggering 77% was prepared to reaccept or at least reconsider a return to the spiritual rule of the Latin Papacy. 'Apostle' says that with proper effort by the clergy, this number is easily achievable and can probably be surpassed. A negative reaction, such as the brandishing them as heretics could cause quite the opposite. "We should turn the other cheek and welcome these misguided sheep back to the right meadow, so to speak. Not ban them to damnation." Susanna Menamari explains. Posted Image A smaller survey was held throughout the African Continent to ascertain whether this would be the case outside of the Empire too. "There is a similar effect but on a far smaller scale." Susanna explains "Here, depending on the nation, background and social environment, the numbers differ. Overall we end up at 22% of schismatics that are likely to switch their allegiance back to the true Pope if He is to be African. In nations as the Kilimanjaro and Simanu the percentages are minimal, in nations like Patrua and Malagassia, they are far bigger." Posted Image While His Serene Highness, the Glorious Prince of Patrua has recently entered a monastery to start a career widely believed to be a preparatory one to the highest clerical function in Catholicism, it is not yet certain that He will ever be accepted as potential bishop of Rome. If He or any other African does, it surely will do much to restore the rift that ripped along the lines of ethnicity and society when the African Pope of Simanu appeared. |
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| Catholic Europe | Jun 7 2005, 07:03 PM Post #41 |
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Spammer
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This kinda reminds me of RL Papal History. The Catholic European hold on the papacy can be compared to the Italian hold in RL with Prince Gravir the Younger being similar to Pope John Paul II in that both will break with tradition and a strangehold, even though they may be of little difference to previous Popes (a white polish man instead of a white Italian man, a white Patruan instead of a white Catholic European). |
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| Patrua | Jun 15 2005, 07:02 AM Post #42 |
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Captain
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With the reprisal of the Third Catholic Council, Cardinal August held a rousing speech that called for the Papacy not to waver from their previous activist policies. "Brothers in faith, fellow cardinals and bishops... It is with grief that I return from my heathen homeland. For I see the people are sad and without lightness in their hearts. The reason, friends, is the lack of faith. The remedy is what I enjoyed in Catholic Europe when I came here before the atrocious war: people who basked in the mercy of God. You see, brothers, when we were actively exporting our faith, we carried out the divine mission of Catholicism. After all, His Holiness the Pope is the supreme ruler of God's world. The Lord's creation should be run by the Lord's representative and not by the many petty chiefs that claim to be the overlords of a part of it. It is our divine duty to unite the world under a Catholic banner. Let not the sheer size of devastation that undid our long and arduous work stop us in our righteous work for it was glorious and godly! I call on all of you to continue our work despite the setback. I humbly request to His Holiness not to forsake the path His predecessors had taken. Catholic Europe and the Papacy's future lie further ahead, not back down. One fit of misfortune should not be the reason to cease the strife for a a Catholic koinč. The Lord Almighty is testing our resolve, and we must prove to Him that we are worthwhile, brothers. The Papacy has now learned how deep regional hatred against it goes. It shows that we only have a future if we expand. Before long, our enemies will only grow stronger and more determined. I pray to God that enlightenment will be yours. Thank you." |
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| Catholic Europe | Jun 15 2005, 04:14 PM Post #43 |
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OOC: Hmm, I think Cardinal August should have a private meeting with prince August. Prince August is going to kinda take this route and so Cardinal August could be like a mentor for his namesake. |
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| Patrua | Jun 15 2005, 05:22 PM Post #44 |
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OOC. Well, he's in Catholic Europe forr the Third Catholic Council anyway. On the other hand, he has been a strong advocate of Prince Gravir Junior (earlier in this thread) who is Prince August's rival. |
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| Catholic Europe | Jun 16 2005, 03:49 AM Post #45 |
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But that doesn't mean that he can't change his mind, especially if he thinks Gravir will be one the new type of Popes and not a Pope of old. |
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| Catholic Europe | Jun 19 2005, 03:51 AM Post #46 |
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My Cardinals, most wise and holy, I have travelled to this Council in order to, as a descendant of St. Queen Matilda, remind you of her legacy so that, whilst discussing various issues and problems that the Church faces, the real objective is not lost. Catholic Europe, and Catholics in general, have suffered greatly in recent times. I know first hand the legacy of the War of Succession, I grow up never knowing my mother or father, being snatched from my grandmother, Queen Maryam, as a toddler and having virtually no uncles, aunts or cousins around me. This legacy has been terrible for all us. Everyone has suffered from the evil that surrounds us and that has hurt us. But we must not lose our resolve. St. Queen Matilda was a patron of Catholic Europe greatness. Her very life, ehr very existance, was, through Gods will, to ensure that the Church and all her sons and daughters would live in peace and comfort and that the Truth would be given for every man, woman and child in this entire world to follow. She carried on, with zealous piety and determination, the plans of Pope St. Emmanuel I and now it falls to us, this Council, you and me, to be the person to bare the cross. Like St. Simon of Cyrene, we too must help Our Lord with his cross to reach his final destination. If we shy away from this responsibility then God will allow us to again feel evil. We must be, like the example of St. Queen Matilda, zealous in our piety, our devotion and our commitment to the cause. Anything less will result in detah and damnation. I am but a young Prince, only 19 years old. But I am a father and the blood of a saint flows through me. My DNA descends from a Holy person and the will of my great-grandmother, the will of God cannot be ignored. We must follow totally and carry on with our cause. For if we don't, Satan will rule supreme and we will all perish. |
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| Catholic Europe | Jul 17 2005, 06:28 AM Post #47 |
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I am revening the Council in order to put a stop to the aggressive and militant Catholicism that has been rampant in the Church, amongst the clergy and throughout the laity for centuries (OOC: it started with Pope John XXIV and that is centuries ago really going by 1 day = 1 year). This militant ideology came to the forefront of St. Pope Emmanuel I and, whilst it may have seemed to further the Church at the time, it has only served to worsen the plight of Catholics worldwide resulting in the murder and discrimination of literally hundreds of millions of Catholics. As a Catholic from a nation where Catholics are a minority I know this and have seen this. Patrua has long been subject to anti-Catholic prejudice, although it has got better in recent times. The actions of the Chruch in Catholic Europe have not helped Catholics in distant lands where they are the minority. Those Catholic minorities, who did take up the militant ideology, only caused distrust and persecution of their fellow Catholics. That is not to say that Church dogma must be comprimised because it will not. The Church, however, must seek to tone down its militancy otherwise more bombs will be dropped on us and many more millions of good and innocent Catholics will be killed. Therefore, I hereby announce that those, either from the clergy or from the laity, who propagate a militant ideology, particularly one that kills for unjustified killing, will be excommunicated. Pope Gravir I |
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| The Socialist Sheikdom of Egyria | Jul 17 2005, 06:38 AM Post #48 |
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The Holy Prussian Empire
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OOC: Your post got me thinking about adopting "standard" time for this region. You go by day=year, but most of us have a vague "its as long as I say it is." Maybe we should make a week=year and apply it to ALL of us. Very different perspectives occur when the First War of Succession raged in CE for decades (according to CE) where to Egyria it was a few months and maybe a few weeks to Dawn or someone. Perhaps we should poll this? |
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| Catholic Europe | Jul 17 2005, 06:44 AM Post #49 |
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I'm going to be stubborn about this and refuse to change it. I have been doing this for two and half years and I'm not going to change it. However, just remember that this time scale that I use only works for the Popes, otherwise someone like Princess Matilda would be 173 years old by now! Don't get me wrong, I have thought about changing it many times but have decided against it each time and I'm not going toi change my mind any more. |
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| Noriega | Jul 17 2005, 06:48 PM Post #50 |
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Resident Hobbit
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Soooo.... Are you still revening the Council, CE? If so, Norightsia would like to be in attendance. The Cardinal of the greater Velorya area, and personal spiritual advisor to the Holy Roman Emperor(Galerius), Telarius Vespasianus, will attend, should he be invited. OOC: By the way. I have been working on a one day=one day rp. We do a lot of things in Asia that aer far too intricate to finish in one day. That Crystal Harbour thing, which will prbably make its appearence here soon, has been going on since a few days after I joined. It has hardly lasted decades. For the past week we have been rping a few hours of time, which is more extreme than usual, but I feel it is significant proof that 1 day= 1 year is just not feasible. |
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9:14 AM Jul 11