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Homosexuality
Topic Started: Mar 24 2005, 11:20 AM (1,764 Views)
Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Yep that one line about man not lieing with man as they would with a woman is the only bit in the Bible. And I've already posted from Leviticus speaks. If it's not int he NT, it's not a sin.

Also on 'outting' no-one on these forums knows them except me, CE and possible Malkav and Kienslad... Lowdell was O&P last time I checked can't seem to recall who Chris Whitmore is.

And just because you like some gay people, doesn't mean your not homophobic. You're attitudes are the hall marks of intolerance. I have female friends, doesn't mean I'm not sexist (I'm sorry but women can not drive).
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Dictatorship n Strife
Apr 11 2005, 03:12 PM
Yep that one line about man not lieing with man as they would with a woman is the only bit in the Bible. And I've already posted from Leviticus speaks. If it's not int he NT, it's not a sin.

DnS, you do realize that not all Christian denominations take a sola scriptura position, right?

I am not trying to enter this argument on any side. I am quite paranoid about being misunderstood. The only reason I am posting here is to point out that whether or not something is in the new testament is not a complete standard of sin for Catholics.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 02:32 PM
Dictatorship n Strife
Apr 11 2005, 03:12 PM
Yep that one line about man not lieing with man as they would with a woman is the only bit in the Bible. And I've already posted from Leviticus speaks. If it's not int he NT, it's not a sin.

DnS, you do realize that not all Christian denominations take a sola scriptura position, right?

I am not trying to enter this argument on any side. I am quite paranoid about being misunderstood. The only reason I am posting here is to point out that whether or not something is in the new testament is not a complete standard of sin for Catholics.

I'm not saying the Catholic Church doesn't consider it a sin, I'm saying it shouldn't.

Just as we no longer stone people, or make animal sacrifices, so to should our cultural (and sexual) attitudes change. The bible says nothing about purgatory or circles of hell, let alone confessional or popes, I'm just saying. Is it right to condemn people who can't change their nature because of one 5000 year old quote? If anything it shows that homosexuality is normal and has been around for thousands of years.

Hell there's more reason to be Koshia than anti-gay.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Ok, I wasn't arguing anything, just trying to understand your point better. Thanks for the clarification.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Relax (don't do it, when you want to get to it)! It was my fault for not being clear in the first place. I'm not going to shout at you and call you racist like that guy on the other thread. You are allowed to have an opion.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Thanks, its just that I find myself being misunderstood a lot lately, so I want to be as clear as possible about my intentions in every one of these posts. To be fair, internet forums are conducive to misunderstandings.

After looking at the different arguments laid out in this discussion, I am beginning to wonder if your respective thought paradigms are too different to really relate to each other. It seems to me that CE, NH, DnS, that you all have very different views of religion and its relation to public life. This is the sort of thing that interests me personally, so don't mind me observing you guys interacting.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 02:53 PM
It seems to me that CE, NH, DnS, that you all have very different views of religion and its relation to public life.

You got that right. My views differ from New Harumfs quite a bit (I mean he's a republican for christs sake) but views are to CE's views as oil is to water... wait as Ceasium is to hydochorlic acid... wait... as matter is to anti-matter.
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Patrua
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Captain
Dictatorship n Strife
Apr 11 2005, 03:09 PM
wait as Ceasium is to hydochorlic acid... wait...

There, and I get whipped because I dared to use the word australopithecus...
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Yeah but mine is in context, I used the simple oil and water first.

*looks shifty*

Running time!
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New Harumf
Unregistered

Dictatorship n Strife
Apr 11 2005, 03:09 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 02:53 PM
It seems to me that CE, NH, DnS, that you all have very different views of religion and its relation to public life.

You got that right. My views differ from New Harumfs quite a bit (I mean he's a republican for christs sake) but views are to CE's views as oil is to water... wait as Ceasium is to hydochorlic acid... wait... as matter is to anti-matter.

Hey, I'm really a Libertarian, just don't tell anyone.
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

Damn and here I was making you a Pink Elephant flag.

But yes Patrua had a point, I appologise.
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
New Harumf
Apr 11 2005, 01:01 PM
Also, I hope the "gayness" of these two individuals is common knowledge by everyone, because if you are "outing" them here in this forum, well, someone should take a cricket bat to your head.

Have you asked them how they feel??

David Lowdell has been out for like 3 years now.

Chris came out in September and he is VERY out, he even got expelled from school for a week for bringing gay pon into school.

Perhaps you are judging me too quickly. So what if I, essentially, view homosexuality as a sin, doesn't mean that I am going to be a bastard to them does it.
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 02:53 PM
It seems to me that CE, NH, DnS, that you all have very different views of religion and its relation to public life.

I don't think that is totally true, just on this one particular subject it is.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Catholic Europe
Apr 11 2005, 06:09 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 02:53 PM
It seems to me that CE, NH, DnS, that you all have very different views of religion and its relation to public life.

I don't think that is totally true, just on this one particular subject it is.

Issues don't exist in a vacuum.
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 05:15 PM
Issues don't exist in a vacuum.

What, where did that come from? Is that a rude connotation or am I reading into it?
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New Harumf
Unregistered

Catholic Europe
Apr 11 2005, 05:09 PM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 02:53 PM
It seems to me that CE, NH, DnS, that you all have very different views of religion and its relation to public life.

I don't think that is totally true, just on this one particular subject it is.

You are just refusing to let it sink in, aren't you. Homosexuality is not a sin, i.e. being a homosexual is not, in itself sinful. Buggary is a sin, according to almost all religions. Lutherans, for example, allow homosexuals to be ministers, as long as they practice celebacy, because there is nothing intrinsically wrong with being a homosexual.

Now, I am currious, is a blow job sex?? Is it a sin?? What about masturbation?? What about lesbianism - nothing in the Bible anywhere about that?
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
New Harumf
Apr 12 2005, 08:54 AM
You are just refusing to let it sink in, aren't you.  Homosexuality is not a sin, i.e. being a homosexual is not, in itself sinful.  Buggary is a sin, according to almost all religions.  Lutherans, for example, allow homosexuals to be ministers, as long as they practice celebacy, because there is nothing intrinsically wrong with being a homosexual.

Now, I am currious, is a blow job sex??  Is it a sin??  What about masturbation??  What about lesbianism - nothing in the Bible anywhere about that?

Okay, I will compromise with you. Homosexuality itself is not a sin, although it is not desirable. The act of homosexuality (i.e: buggery) is a sin (and it shouldn't be allowed for straight couples either). That is as much as I am going to budge on that.

With regards to the other 'sex acts' you posted about, I would refer to Church teaching because that is what you need to do, as well as consulting the Bible.

As I said before I am not a Priest nor trained in the finer points of biblical/canon law and just giving my own personal opinion.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Catholic Europe
Apr 12 2005, 09:49 AM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 11 2005, 05:15 PM
Issues don't exist in a vacuum.

What, where did that come from? Is that a rude connotation or am I reading into it?

I think you are reading into it. I was simply stating that if you think very differently about one issue, you probably are going to think very differently about other issues. I was just saying you guys have different thought paradigms, though I'm starting to see the similarities too...
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 12 2005, 09:30 AM
I think you are reading into it. I was simply stating that if you think very differently about one issue, you probably are going to think very differently about other issues. I was just saying you guys have different thought paradigms, though I'm starting to see the similarities too...

Oh okay lol....

And, what you have said is not necessarily true of me. You may think that I am probably right wing economically and on issues such as immigration - I am, virtually, the complete opposite and so I agree with what Nag says on these issues. I'm a weird cookie lol.
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Rhadamanthus
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Legitimist

Catholic Europe
Apr 12 2005, 10:32 AM
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 12 2005, 09:30 AM
I think you are reading into it.  I was simply stating that if you think very differently about one issue, you probably are going to think very differently about other issues.  I was just saying you guys have different thought paradigms, though I'm starting to see the similarities too...

Oh okay lol....

And, what you have said is not necessarily true of me. You may think that I am probably right wing economically and on issues such as immigration - I am, virtually, the complete opposite and so I agree with what Nag says on these issues. I'm a weird cookie lol.

Actually I wasn't thinking that at all! I mean my country's political system recognizes only two points of view, and its rather disturbing. I know better than that! I am not thinking about specific issues so much as thought patterns; I can look at statements of different people, and I don't think everybody agrees on what religion is, let alone what it has to do with people.
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
The Resplendent Dawn
Apr 12 2005, 09:38 AM
Actually I wasn't thinking that at all! I mean my country's political system recognizes only two points of view, and its rather disturbing. I know better than that! I am not thinking about specific issues so much as thought patterns; I can look at statements of different people, and I don't think everybody agrees on what religion is, let alone what it has to do with people.

Oh okay, just seemed to me that you were saying that we will disagree on all issues (which I didn't think was true).
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Nag Ehgoeg
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The Devil's Advocate

We disagree on most things that link to religion. And we do disagree on a lot of issues (as the forum shows) but we do share some common beliefs. But then the same oculd be said for most people. On this issues that come up for debate here, We'll probably disagree though :P
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New Harumf
Unregistered

Dictatorship n Strife
Apr 12 2005, 11:31 AM
We disagree on most things that link to religion. And we do disagree on a lot of issues (as the forum shows) but we do share some common beliefs. But then the same oculd be said for most people. On this issues that come up for debate here, We'll probably disagree though :P

It would be nice to know that we all agree there are some moral absolutes. Back in the seventies we were being taught that there weren't. If you made a moral absolute, say, "Torturing small defenseless animals is morally wrong." you would be subject to debate.
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Catholic Europe
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Spammer
New Harumf
Apr 12 2005, 01:47 PM
It would be nice to know that we all agree there are some moral absolutes. Back in the seventies we were being taught that there weren't. If you made a moral absolute, say, "Torturing small defenseless animals is morally wrong." you would be subject to debate.

Well, the end of the sixties and the seventies was the moral decline era.

Abortion was legalise through this period and Vatican II happened I believe also occured as well....
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NRE
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Map Tsar and Southern Gentleman

Well, personally, I find nothing wrong with homosexuals or bisexual people. I'm not a very religious individual...that might have something to do with it...haven't been in a church for an actually service in a very long time. However my personal views on that, is that you don't have to go to a church to worship. In short however, I don't think it would be our place to judge, nor condemn those who wish to be homosexual or bisexual. I mean ultimately, if you believe in God, you'd believe that it was his place to pass judgment right? So wouldn't that mean that by you, yourself passing judgment onto these people, that you would see yourself an equal to God? just a thought
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