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Magic will reach out to Turk again....
Topic Started: Jun 30 2009, 01:16 AM (2,109 Views)
D12
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TheFalcon, Vince fits this team perfectly. He does everything Hedo does, but better.
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Pitbullz EP
Jun. 30, 2009 06:31 PM
How do we know that there was even a team out there that was willing to take Lee/Alston/Battie and give up a "solid power forward"? There may have not been any options out there to get a "solid pf".

We don't. We have absolutely no idea what we could have gotten. What we did get was an aging shooting guard who has never played in a system even remotely close to our ours. What we gave up was our ability to sign two important players from a championship team, our starting point guard who made a finals run, and our most promising wing player. We added offense to a position that needed defense. We picked up a player who shoots more and passes less, who is smaller, and doesn't provide matchup problems for anyone. If that's a good deal to you, then there really isn't any point in arguing.

My point is this - players can be had. There is always a way. I would much rather have used our pieces, in whatever combination neccessary, to add to a position that is virtually vacant. Not trade away promising young players for a slight upgrade at a position that was poised for major growth in the years to come.

As for D12's comment, that's purely your opinion. My opinion is this - Vince Carter doesn't do everything better than Hedo. He's not a better distributor, he doesn't run the offense in fourth quarters, he's not a better defender, he doesn't present matchup problems. He's arguably a better shooter, he's certainly a better dunker, he's a good rebounder for his position, and he's less streaky. However, there is a reason other teams aren't clammoring to get him. He is a portrait of convention, and now we are as well.
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
And by the way, I really hope I'm not coming across as a pompous douchebag here, because that's not my intent. I've watched, played, and coached basketball for a long time, and I'm pretty passionate about it. It's all good-natured debate on my end (which is why I'm here as opposed to the other boards). So, no offense to anybody on here. I love debating this stuff with you all - I just can't make myself love this trade.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
D12
Jun. 30, 2009 07:08 PM
TheFalcon, Vince fits this team perfectly. He does everything Hedo does, but better.

This is a true statement. What Falcon is saying though, and I agree, is that we may lose Clee,alston, battie, turk, and Gortat essentially for an aging VC. and now limited financially. I dont think its a question that VC is more talented than Turk but it's not enough to offset what we may lose.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
TheFalcon
Jun. 30, 2009 07:43 PM
We don't. We have absolutely no idea what we could have gotten. What we did get was an aging shooting guard who has never played in a system even remotely close to our ours. What we gave up was our ability to sign two important players from a championship team, our starting point guard who made a finals run, and our most promising wing player. We added offense to a position that needed defense. We picked up a player who shoots more and passes less, who is smaller, and doesn't provide matchup problems for anyone. If that's a good deal to you, then there really isn't any point in arguing.

My point is this - players can be had. There is always a way. I would much rather have used our pieces, in whatever combination neccessary, to add to a position that is virtually vacant. Not trade away promising young players for a slight upgrade at a position that was poised for major growth in the years to come.

As for D12's comment, that's purely your opinion. My opinion is this - Vince Carter doesn't do everything better than Hedo. He's not a better distributor, he doesn't run the offense in fourth quarters, he's not a better defender, he doesn't present matchup problems. He's arguably a better shooter, he's certainly a better dunker, he's a good rebounder for his position, and he's less streaky. However, there is a reason other teams aren't clammoring to get him. He is a portrait of convention, and now we are as well.

Your right, he's never played in a system like ours before. One in which he doesnt have to take on the scoring load for an entire team. I agree with your assesment that Otis SO FAR hasn't put a better team than last year together, but Im curious to see what VC can do on team thats loaded. IMO Otis is blowing smoke and fully intends to pursue an upgrade at the 4 if he cant get hedo or Gortat here as soon as 12:01 am hits. We are just missing too many pieces to sit and wait.

Also just an FYI there was a rumor that on hoopshype's rumor page that NYK's are going to offer Gortat the MLE. The link wouldn't work, not sure how true it is but it's interesting none the less.
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Vinnie
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Legend
Pitbullz EP
Jun. 30, 2009 09:49 PM
This is a true statement. What Falcon is saying though, and I agree, is that we may lose Clee,alston, battie, turk, and Gortat essentially for an aging VC. and now limited financially. I dont think its a question that VC is more talented than Turk but it's not enough to offset what we may lose.

If we lose Gortat that has nothing to do with getting VC, Gortat was probably out of here either way. Turk may have been out of here as well. Hopefully we get Wallace, if not maybe Turk doesn't get what he thought he was going to get on the open market or from the team he wanted on the open market and comes back here at around our initial offer.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
Vinnie
Jun. 30, 2009 10:11 PM
If we lose Gortat that has nothing to do with getting VC, Gortat was probably out of here either way. Turk may have been out of here as well. Hopefully we get Wallace, if not maybe Turk doesn't get what he thought he was going to get on the open market or from the team he wanted on the open market and comes back here at around our initial offer.

Thats true, Gortat has nothing to do with VC.
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D12
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TheFalcon
Jun. 30, 2009 07:43 PM
We don't. We have absolutely no idea what we could have gotten. What we did get was an aging shooting guard who has never played in a system even remotely close to our ours. What we gave up was our ability to sign two important players from a championship team, our starting point guard who made a finals run, and our most promising wing player. We added offense to a position that needed defense. We picked up a player who shoots more and passes less, who is smaller, and doesn't provide matchup problems for anyone. If that's a good deal to you, then there really isn't any point in arguing.

My point is this - players can be had. There is always a way. I would much rather have used our pieces, in whatever combination neccessary, to add to a position that is virtually vacant. Not trade away promising young players for a slight upgrade at a position that was poised for major growth in the years to come.

As for D12's comment, that's purely your opinion. My opinion is this - Vince Carter doesn't do everything better than Hedo. He's not a better distributor, he doesn't run the offense in fourth quarters, he's not a better defender, he doesn't present matchup problems. He's arguably a better shooter, he's certainly a better dunker, he's a good rebounder for his position, and he's less streaky. However, there is a reason other teams aren't clammoring to get him. He is a portrait of convention, and now we are as well.

Well, if you give him a chance to play in this system, then maybe he can do those things. Rememberm Hedo was NOTHING before SVG came. Our system made him. I'm sure it can do the same with VC. VC is willing, IMO, to stop shooting a little less, pass a little more, so he can win.

Also, Don't forget about Ryan Anderson. A PF that fits perfectly with Orlando. He's an upgrade over Battie. And according to PER, he had a better rookie year than Courtney Lee.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
Link

Quote:
 
Determined to make the first splash of the NBA's free-agent negotiating period early Wednesday, the Portland Trail Blazers are making a strong push to sign Hedo Turkoglu, the prized free agent of the summer.

While negotiations across the league were in the early stages, a person with knowledge of the discussions said the Blazers are trying to lure Turkoglu with a deal in the $50-million range. Contracts cannot be signed until July 7, when the annual moratorium on signing and trading players is lifted.

Other teams expected to make a play for Turkoglu, who earned a huge pay day by helping Orlando get to the NBA Finals, were Toronto, Detroit, and Sacramento. The Magic, who acquired Vince Carter from the Nets on the belief that they could not retain Turkoglu, are not expected to be a factor in a situation that involves Turkoglu getting $10 million a year.

good luck Turk.
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Vinnie
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Legend
Pitbullz EP
Jul. 1, 2009 01:53 AM
Link

Quote:
 
Determined to make the first splash of the NBA's free-agent negotiating period early Wednesday, the Portland Trail Blazers are making a strong push to sign Hedo Turkoglu, the prized free agent of the summer.

While negotiations across the league were in the early stages, a person with knowledge of the discussions said the Blazers are trying to lure Turkoglu with a deal in the $50-million range. Contracts cannot be signed until July 7, when the annual moratorium on signing and trading players is lifted.

Other teams expected to make a play for Turkoglu, who earned a huge pay day by helping Orlando get to the NBA Finals, were Toronto, Detroit, and Sacramento. The Magic, who acquired Vince Carter from the Nets on the belief that they could not retain Turkoglu, are not expected to be a factor in a situation that involves Turkoglu getting $10 million a year.

good luck Turk.

Yeah, I just saw this. Looks like Turk will end up in Portland, at least we'll only have to see him twice a year.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
Vinnie
Jul. 1, 2009 01:00 AM
Pitbullz EP
Jul. 1, 2009 01:53 AM
Link

Quote:
 
Determined to make the first splash of the NBA's free-agent negotiating period early Wednesday, the Portland Trail Blazers are making a strong push to sign Hedo Turkoglu, the prized free agent of the summer.

While negotiations across the league were in the early stages, a person with knowledge of the discussions said the Blazers are trying to lure Turkoglu with a deal in the $50-million range. Contracts cannot be signed until July 7, when the annual moratorium on signing and trading players is lifted.

Other teams expected to make a play for Turkoglu, who earned a huge pay day by helping Orlando get to the NBA Finals, were Toronto, Detroit, and Sacramento. The Magic, who acquired Vince Carter from the Nets on the belief that they could not retain Turkoglu, are not expected to be a factor in a situation that involves Turkoglu getting $10 million a year.

good luck Turk.

Yeah, I just saw this. Looks like Turk will end up in Portland, at least we'll only have to see him twice a year.

No we wait to see what Otis does. May not happen tonight fellas
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chigui
Sixth Man
If they in fact did offer 10 mill per year for 5 years, then he is moving to Portland. There is no way we can compete with that. At least, he wont kill us in the Eastern conference playoffs.
Portland is a good fit for him.

Now, we can concentrated on the very much needed PF.
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Niccabear
Rookie
So as of now it really looks like Hedo is going to Portland.. (and slight chance of going to toronto)... If he goes to Portland does anybody see the possibility of a sign and trade involving Travis Outlaw? and or Steve Blake?! (restructuring of both their contracts)...

I mean if you really think about it.. with the cap space the blazers have.. they can only really offer Hedo the same thing the magic have offered.. Portland is also looking for a point-guard, and from what I've been reading it seems as if they find outlaw and steve blake very expendable. So if hedo does eventually decide to go there I feel a sign and trade is very possible..
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Vinnie
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Legend
Sources: Toronto is preparing an offer of 5 years & $60 million for Turkoglu. Dwight Howard, made a call to Turkoglu re-sign with the Magic.

Got this from NBATurks off Twitter. I have no other info to confirm this but I believe that's more money then Portland was going to put on the table.
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D12
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Can we do a sign and trade?
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